Which .223 to buy?

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
It's time to get a bigger rifle. I want something semi-auto. I think I wan a .223, but I'm a rifle noob so I'm open to suggestions of other calibers. I don't feel like I need a 30/30, that's a bit big for me. Is a .223 suitable for hunting? Cheap and plentiful rounds are what I;m looking for. I don't think I'm an AR kind of guy, they're too tacticool for me. I just want a good solid rifle with a big mag.

The Ruger mini 14 has caught my eye, along with some of their other minis.
 
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mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
There are people on here that are way more knowledgable about guns than me. I will give my opinion.

The .223 is legal to hunt with in Utah. That doesn't mean you should hunt big game with it, but you can. Shot placement is key with any round, but the bigger the game and smaller the caliber the more important it becomes.
I was duck hunting this week and we stopped for some rabbit hunting with the ARs. It was a super fun time, but not good for hunting small game with, unless you are a better shot than most. Not a ton of meat was left. Your .22 would have been better if meat hunting.

I really like the newer mini14s. They are reliable and accurate. I want one.

You need to decide what you want to do with the rifle. If you are buying it for fun, hunting big game, stopping people, etcetera and then decide what platform will fit the needs. .223 is a cheap option for an intermediate power round. 5.45x39 is even a little cheaper if you can find a gun that shoots it that you like.

Keltec makes some cool options on .223 rifles.

You are welcome to shoot any of my guns and see if they will work for you. I would shy away from any non-main caliber. They will cost you to much to shoot, unless you reload.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
Thanks Davy. I'd mainly want it for home defense, end of the world type of thing. I don't see myself needing a big round to defend myself, and my .22 would be great for small game. At least thats what I think I like. I'll definitely take you up on your offer, I'd love to shoot a few different rifles and get a feel for them.
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
Do you own a shotgun yet? Something to think about if you do not.

A .223 would be a great defense/end of world gun and you can stockpile a bunch of ammo and carry a bunch if needed.

Some people a big fans of long guns for home defense and some are not. My wife uses a shotgun, I clear the house with a hand gun.

Come and take a few out on your camping trip.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
a shotgun is on my list too. I'll shoot you a text, I may just need to borrow a couple guns for this trip tomorrow night.
 

jeeper

I live my life 1 dumpster at a time
Location
So Jo, Ut
I think something in the .243 flavor is nice. Plenty good for hunting, similar balistics to the .223, but with a little more punch. And since AR's run the .223 they can be hard to find. The .243 is still around.
 

glockman

I hate Jeep trucks
Location
Pleasant Grove
For simple home defense you might want to look at an AK or an SKS if you don't like AR's. they make AK's in .223.

I might add that there is a reason the AR platform is THE most popular rifle in the US. You can buy one lower and a couple uppers and have several rifles. Example I have rock river coyote with a 20" heavy barrel. I also have a 16" light taper upper. One is good out to 500 yards very consistently. The other is super light and easy to clear buildings with.

One side note. A .40 or .45 pistol round will penetrate more walls in your house than a .223. This makes a short light rifle optimum for clearing your house.

Either way, a .223 is an awesome round for what you are looking for. It isn't the best big game gun but it can't be everything and it is a good compromise between bullet energy and compactness, read easy to carry lots of rounds both on your body and in a small magazine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Major downside right now to .223 is if you can find non-tracer rounds, they are expensive. A mini 14 would be a super fun, inexpensive gun to have. It still has some range to it, but isn't as big as a .223. If I add another caliber to my collection, it'll be a mini 14.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
hm... what about a mini 30? Would it be cheaper to buy rounds for?


Which rounds are more available/affordable? .223 or 5.56x45mm NATO?
 
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Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Which rounds are more available/affordable? .223 or 5.56x45mm NATO?

Neither. Normally 5.56 are less expensive, but lately .223 have been cheaper. However, neither are really available right now. (Unless you want to pay ~$.75 a round)

Not sure on the mini 30 rounds.
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Stinkwater
The mini-30 is 7.62x30something, I doubt those are cheap at all. :)

Can I hijack? 5.56mm isn't as powerful a round as the .223?
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
The mini-30 is 7.62x30something, I doubt those are cheap at all. :)

Can I hijack? 5.56mm isn't as powerful a round as the .223?

Other way around. 5.56 is more than .223. That's why you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chamber, but not 5.56 in a .223 chamber.
 

bryson

RME Resident Ninja
Supporting Member
Location
West Jordan
Major downside right now to .223 is if you can find non-tracer rounds, they are expensive. A mini 14 would be a super fun, inexpensive gun to have. It still has some range to it, but isn't as big as a .223. If I add another caliber to my collection, it'll be a mini 14.

Mini-14 out of the box is a 5.56/.223. Same as most AR-15s. http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14/index.html

Mini-30 uses the 7.62x39 round... same as AK-47 and most AK variants.

My understanding on the 5.56/.223 deal is that all guns chambered for 5.56 NATO will safely fire .223 rounds. Some guns chambered for .223 will safely fire 5.56 NATO, but not all of them. See below:
Wikipedia said:
5.56 mm NATO versus .223 RemingtonThe 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are similar but not identical. Military 5.56×45mm cases are often made thicker and therefore have less case capacity.[30] However, the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. NATO EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement method accounts for upwards of 20,000 psi (140 MPa) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 MPa (62,000 psi) for 5.56 mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to 55,000 psi (380 MPa) for .223 Remington.[31] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO.

The 5.56 mm NATO chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chamber, has a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet. The .223 Remington chambering, known as SAAMI chamber, is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber (Rock River Arms)[32] or the ArmaLite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington equally well. The dimensions and leade of the .223 Remington minimum C.I.P. chamber also differ from the 5.56 mm NATO chamber specification.

Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56 mm NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered gun due to the longer leade.[33] Using 5.56 mm NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and SAAMI recommends against the practice.[34][35] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56 mm NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14 (marked ".223 cal"), but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56 mm NATO ammunition.[36]

It should also be noted that the upper receiver (to which the barrel with its chamber are attached) and the lower receiver are entirely separate parts in AR-15 style rifles. If the lower receiver has either .223 or 5.56 stamped on it, it does not guarantee the upper assembly is rated for the same caliber, because the upper and the lower receiver in the same rifle can, and frequently do, come from different manufacturers – particularly with rifles sold to civilians or second-hand rifles.

In more practical terms, as of 2010 most AR-15 parts suppliers engineer their complete upper assemblies (not to be confused with stripped uppers where the barrel is not included) to support both calibers in order to protect their customers from injuries and to protect their businesses from resultant litigation.
 

rholbrook

Well-Known Member
Location
Kaysville, Ut
I have a really nice Browning Gold Hunter 3 1/2 shotgun I would like to trade for an AR. I pulled it out last night and thought I would rather have something else than a really nice shotgun
 
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