Which rv/5th wheel solution for full time?

[sixstringsteve]

Here is a link to the chit chat thread about full Time rving.

http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?108027-full-time-rv-dream&p=1028010#post1028010

We will keep this thread centered on tow rigs, or possible rv solutions that'll meet my need.

 

[mbryson]

Did they make a 7.3L f450?

Yes, up to an F550. 2003 is the last of the 7.3L. 6.0L came in at 2003.5. I'm not sure I'd buy one. People do buy them, throw $5k to "fix"' them and then I see them sell them 1 or 2 years later. Odd... I would avoid the 6.0L and 6.4L PowerStrokes if it was my $. The 6.7L is intriguing but I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. Total clean sheet of paper vs the International engines before it. Definitely impressive to drive but how are they with miles on them? Time will tell. 7.3L are going up in price, not down.

The bad thing about that is they aren't getting any newer. You'll pay for a lower mile 7.3L and they really aren't all THAT impressive. They just work and work well. The truck they are wrapped around is a solid truck. Decent engine in a solid truck. You'll get good at changing CPS sensors (I did, anyway) if you get a 7.3L. They are semi-reasonable on fuel, decent on power and pretty dang reliable. Just aren't getting any younger.

Turbo's, injector pumps and injectors can bite you at any time with any diesel. Transmissions and clutches (and sometimes rear diffs) take a pretty good beating from the torque.

I've weighed in at 24,400 with my flatbed V10 F450 manual... Super cheap tow rig ($5k), handles the weight no problem... Just not fast, and single digit mpg.

single digit mpg in my F250 as well. Mine's a '99 and is not fast, but grunts well and likes fuel. No turbo, injector pump or $250 injectors either.

How reliable are the v10s? I heard they spit plugs

I think that is a LOW percentage. Any of the earlier modular Ford motors only have three threads holding the spark plugs in. Happens to the v6, 4.6L and 5.4L v8 as well. I think they fixed that in '01 or '02? The later model V10 is a 3V per cylinder ('05?). They run WELL but get the same mpg as the older ones. Since I've gotten our V10, I've been pretty impressed with how many miles some people have on theirs. Ours has 225k miles and still runs quite well. It has a lift and could use some gears but I'm not sure I want to even work on it to get rid of the lift and/or gear it. I think it would tow very nice if geared correctly. I top out at Soldier Summit at about 60 mph. Pulling out of Moab as the grade increases from Arches park gets me down to about 52-55 mph.

For what you sound like you're using it for, I'd get a $30-60k motorhome and buy a $5k enclose trailer to tow behind it. Might be cheaper than the toyhauler/truck combo? I think the upkeep on a motorhome would be similar to a pickup/fifth wheel? They are both like having a house made of uber cheap materials. You will have a list of things to work on no matter how new the RV is.

 

[TurboMinivan]

this rig will double as a daily driver when it's not hauling.

This is a significant requirement, because it will force you into a compromise. If you could drop this need off your list, it seems you could come up with a better strategy.

For that weight you might be "ok" but to handle a toy hauler, I'd want the training wheels.

I agree. When you're moving so much weight, you cannot have too much stability. Seriously. Inexperienced towers only think about one thing: acceleration. In reality, safe towing is not about simply moving the weight, but controlling it. Think about steering, stopping, etc.

To me, "cheap to maintain" is my V10 Ford. It does like it's fuel when operating but for what I use it for, it's a great compromise.

As a general rule, gasoline engines will always cost less to maintain than turbo diesels. However, the diesels will do a better job of moving substantial loads. That trade-off is one of many decisions you'll need to make.

I would suggest looking hard at an 8.1L GM powered or Ford V10 powered class A or Class C and towing a LIGHT toy trailer behind that?

This is a great idea for two reasons. First, the motorhome + small enclosed trailer might be a better idea than a pickup plus a HUGE toyhauler trailer. Second, Marc said the magic word: Vortec 8100. That engine gives you more power and torque than the Ford V10, better fuel economy than the V10 (based on Marc and I sharing notes in Moab), and it is an extremely durable, overbuilt design. Mine has 227,000 miles and doesn't miss a beat. I'm told the 8100 was used in a variety of motorhomes, so I expect it wouldn't be hard to find one that suits you.

I would never recommend a 6.0 to anyone as their first diesel tow rig.

I would never recommend a 6.0 Powerstroke to anyone, ever.

 

[Unimog]

I've investigated pretty extensively the kind of rigs you are looking at. I'm kindof favoring an early 2000s duramax. I use a class 8 freightliner now with one axle deleted. It is a great safe tow rig, but a pain to drive around once you unhitch. IMO, you must have duals with this kind of weight.

 

[sixstringsteve]

im a big fan of the 8.1 vortec. whats the tow rating on those?

 

[Unimog]

IMO, A motorhome with any kind of decent tow rating (> 8-10k) really limits you to pretty expensive rigs.

 

[sawtooth4x4]

I wish I had not bought a 6.0. mine has been sitting for 2 months because the EGR cooler blew up. I had just put a new one in it about 4 months before that. I just deleted it this time, and the cat is gone. Its getting registered in Montana or Wyoming. Screw the smog check in Utah.

Mine has 192K miles on it. After I put it back together is should be good again for awhile as all the crap that can break has been upgraded to really good parts. The rest of the truck is solid. The transmission is great and has not given me any issues. Power is impressive especially when towing 14K lbs. I simply put the cruise control on and let the truck do the work.

Downsides: Diesel is expensive and the mileage is not much better then a gas motor unless you are towing heavy stuff. Oil Changes are expensive. Maintenance is expensive. Now that is has broken on me a few times, I don't trust it. I'd rather drive my Land Rover because its more reliable. Even my 1984 BMW is more reliable and its 31 years old with 210K miles on it.

 

[sixstringsteve]

its definitely a compromise no matter which way i go. lots of great advice and perspectives in here.

the plan for now is to stay a month or so in each town before moving on, so something spacious is appealing,

 

[sixstringsteve]

im 99% sure i dont want a 6.0

 

[joshbmx1201]

im a big fan of the ford v10 as well for a budget tow rig. not sure id want to pull a 18k trailer with one but for anything i do they are great. everyone is scared of the mileage so the trucks can be had cheap, as long as your not dd-ing it who cares. I had one in a 37 ft class A motorhome that weighed 18k empty, then id load it up for camping and pull a 18 ft trailer with a 4 seat side by side. not fast on the big hills at all but got the job done. got about 8-9mpg with that setup. about 11 without the trailer.

Im over the price of diesel trucks and the cost of maintenance. just doesnt fit in my budget

and yes, you dont want a 6.0. bulletproofed or not. tons of guys at my work have all different brands of diesel pickups. almost everyone with a 6.0 has either lemon lawed it or had huge expensive failures.

 

[sixstringsteve]

ive also toyed with the idea of converting an old school bus. after seeing www.hankboughtabus.com i got hooked on the idea. i think id want to build a slide out on it, but that is a serious project.

 

[joshbmx1201]

ive also toyed with the idea of converting an old school bus. after seeing www.hankboughtabus.com i got hooked on the idea. i think id want to build a slide out on it, but that is a serious project.

funny you mention that. heres my old setup. Loved this thing. Nothing fancy at all. Bought the bus for 1100 dollars, ran great. Problem free for the 3 years or so that i owned it. Had access to waste jet fuel at my job and ran it all off that for the whole time. Retitled as a ford motorhome so insurance and registration was dirt cheap. check out skoolie.net for lots of inspiration. some amazing builds on there.

 

[zmotorsports]

I wish I had not bought a 6.0. mine has been sitting for 2 months because the EGR cooler blew up. I had just put a new one in it about 4 months before that. I just deleted it this time, and the cat is gone. Its getting registered in Montana or Wyoming. Screw the smog check in Utah.

Mine has 192K miles on it. After I put it back together is should be good again for awhile as all the crap that can break has been upgraded to really good parts. The rest of the truck is solid. The transmission is great and has not given me any issues. Power is impressive especially when towing 14K lbs. I simply put the cruise control on and let the truck do the work.

Downsides: Diesel is expensive and the mileage is not much better then a gas motor unless you are towing heavy stuff. Oil Changes are expensive. Maintenance is expensive. Now that is has broken on me a few times, I don't trust it. I'd rather drive my Land Rover because its more reliable. Even my 1984 BMW is more reliable and its 31 years old with 210K miles on it.

I work with a guy who is a true blue oval nut and he bought a 6.slow new and has had nothing but problems from day one. He just blew a head gasket over the weekend and is pulling the engine at the moment to install ARP studs. He says as soon as it is fixed he is selling it. I told him once he does the studs and new EGR cooler it should be fine and the rest of the truck is quite clean and in great shape but he has had it with this truck.


On a more related to the thread comment, my wife and I don't full-time but we RV a lot. We generally spend about 70-ish nights a year in our RV. We chose the other route and chose to go with a coach and tow our Jeep either in our enclosed trailer along with the Harley or flat-tow the Jeep, depending on what we are doing and where we are going. That seemed to be the best choice for us but we were racing quite heavily for many years and the coach/enclosed trailer made more sense for us. Nice mid to upper end coaches capable of towing 10k plus pounds are actually quite reasonable as far as prices go. Many time you can get into an ISL, ISM or maybe even an ISX Cummins or C9, C12 or C15 CAT and the larger ones have true engine compression brakes vs. exhaust brakes. Our ISL has a two stage engine compression brake (Jake Brake) and I couldn't go back to an exhaust brake. Slowing our approx. 50k pounds of coach and trailer is great between the compression brake and air brakes.

I know it is more than a compromise but in my opinion when you start getting up near that high teens to 20k pounds of trailer, although the light duty trucks all tout they "can" do it, I have to ask "should you" do it. Safety is foremost in my mind at all times and getting that much weight moving is great, but slowing or stopping in an emergency is another story all together. Personally I would be looking at an FL60 or FL70 tractor to pull that much weight. That way you will more than likely get into a CAT C7 engine with a good exhaust brake and definitely a unit with air brakes. These can be had at a very reasonable price if you are willing to look 8-10 years old.

Just my opinion.

Mike.

 

[Corban_White]

Listen to Mike and Marc. Full-timing in a fifth wheel will leave much to be desired. I would be looking at a truck-based (not pickup or van based) motor home and either flat tow your car or get an enclosed trailer. If you do decide to go for the fifth wheel, I wouldn't even THINK of towing that size of trailer without a dually and you should really be 450 class or higher.

This:

or this:

Not one of these:

Having driven both kinds without a trailer, the light duty chassis just do not handle the weight well and will not lend themselves well to full time driving the country, especially if towing. The heavier chassis may cost more but will be safer and much less stressful, allowing you to enjoy the dream rather than regretting your decision. Just my .02.

 

[Unimog]

I've thought of medium duty trucks also. When I bought my fl112, a fellow unimog owner bought an fl70. They cost roughly the same amount. The class 8 had more miles, but it also lasts many more. They get roughly the same mpg loaded. Most md trucks are really Spartan work trucks unless you spend big $. What it came down to for me, is I don't see any added convenience of reduced cost of md over hd.

The other factor I'd add to the discussion is regardless of the maint and purchase cost, a diesel handles heavy towing in a way a big gas engine never will. The v-10 and 8.1 liters are great motors and will do the job, but not the same way a good diesel will do it. Take this for what it is worth. Of my 6 vehicles, 4 are turbo diesel. [emoji3]

 

[Bart]

Love the threads that Steve starts. This is a great one.

 

[ricsrx]

I need to chime in.....

i have the "not one of these" motor homes that Corbin shows, he is right the C class can not tow.

I also have the Dodge that Marc so passionately despises, he is right the Dodge will pull my house off the foundation but it is a pile.

A dully is the only way to go if you are looking at a truck.

I have contemplated so many of the posted comments....

i am sure i will unload the motor home.

I would like to pick up a 2000 and up ford 3 or 450 dully, drop my cumins in it and go from there for a trailer

 

[sawtooth4x4]

I'd love to stick a cummins in mine and get rid of the Powersmoker. I like the Fords interior much better then the Dodge interior. the seats are much more comfortable in the ford, and the interior is much quieter. that was why I went with the Ford in the first place.

I need to chime in.....

i have the "not one of these" motor homes that Corbin shows, he is right the C class can not tow.

I also have the Dodge that Marc so passionately despises, he is right the Dodge will pull my house off the foundation but it is a pile.

A dully is the only way to go if you are looking at a truck.

I have contemplated so many of the posted comments....

i am sure i will unload the motor home.

pick up a 2000 and up ford 3 or 450 dully, drop my cumins in it and go from there for a trailer

 

[clfrnacwby]

My brother-in-law just got a toy hauler. He drove it from Vegas to Moab last week. He is using a 7.3L Excursion to pull. It's a bumper pull and he says that it has a NASTY sway to it. Even with equalizer hitch and all. There is one more option he is looking into to help with the sway. It is HEAVY, HEAVY, HEAVY. The 7.3L pulls it just fine but stability is a huge issue. I checked rental places and they require a 1 ton to pull their toy haulers. His recommendation to me was to get a fifth wheel setup if I ever decided to get a toy hauler.

 

[mbryson]

Rick,

Which motor home do you have? I have seriously considered an E450 chassis motor home (assuming they have better brakes/axles than the E350?). I like a lot of the Class C floorplans (rear bedroom and bunk above the cab) and don't care for most Class A floorplans I've seen.

I have not seen a class C with an 8.1L. They seem to be reserved to Class A.

Some of the coaches with the Cummins/Cat power seem IDEAL for what Steve is trying to do. As mentioned above, buy an enclosed trailer and put the Miata AND a couple motorcycles in it with some tools and such and you're right where you want to be? Those coaches are built better, have stronger medium duty-heavy duty truck parts that are engineered for million mile service life and should give good service for a long time.

You could buy an older pickup with a new trailer and get by ok or have a truck disaster with a nice trailer that you can't move around. Same argument could be made for a coach as they aren't exactly cheap to tow/maintain, but I'd imagine they will have similar maint. to a truck/trailer.

My personal upcoming solution is I think I'm going to buy a lighter shortbed slide-in camper (meaning it's fragile as hell) for the F250 for sub-$5k range and see how that works (and I'll likely want to get rid of the lift the first day I try to put that camper on). DEFINITELY not a full time solution. Slide-ins are a bit claustrophobic and just not a great solution. I'm hoping it's a good ENOUGH solution for my 15-20 nights a year? If my F250 was a longbed F350, I'd be happier with the camper solution. The F350 upgrade is just rear springs (but I'll need to watch my weights on the F250 stickers to be legal) and I did that to my other F250 without any issues.

I'd love to stick a cummins in mine and get rid of the Powersmoker. I like the Fords interior much better then the Dodge interior. the seats are much more comfortable in the ford, and the interior is much quieter. that was why I went with the Ford in the first place.

A common rail Cummins in a 6.0L truck would be AWESOME, IMHO