Which rv/5th wheel solution for full time?

[sawtooth4x4]

If you are hauling a heavy load a 5th wheel is much nicer. I just hate trying to hook them up by myself. A longer wheel base also makes towing heavy things much nicer.

 

[TurboMinivan]

im a big fan of the 8.1 vortec. whats the tow rating on those?

My 2500 4x4 Suburban with 4.10 gears is rated to tow 12,000 pounds. I expect the rating would be higher in a truck (or larger chassis RV, etc) for two reasons. First, those bigger vehicles have a longer wheelbase. Second, my Suburban uses a 4L80E transmission while the pickup trucks used the Allison 5-speed transmission instead.

 

[Unimog]

If you are hauling a heavy load a 5th wheel is much nicer. I just hate trying to hook them up by myself

Why is that? I'd way rather hitch a 5th wheel by myself than a bumper pull.

 

[sawtooth4x4]

I have a crew cab long bed. I can't see my flip up fall in the bed when I'm trying to get lined up.

 

[zmotorsports]

My personal upcoming solution is I think I'm going to buy a lighter shortbed slide-in camper (meaning it's fragile as hell) for the F250 for sub-$5k range and see how that works (and I'll likely want to get rid of the lift the first day I try to put that camper on). DEFINITELY not a full time solution. Slide-ins are a bit claustrophobic and just not a great solution. I'm hoping it's a good ENOUGH solution for my 15-20 nights a year? If my F250 was a longbed F350, I'd be happier with the camper solution. The F350 upgrade is just rear springs (but I'll need to watch my weights on the F250 stickers to be legal) and I did that to my other F250 without any issues.

This is what the wife and I started with many years ago. I already had a truck and had just rebuilt a wrecked 24' Wells Cargo enclosed trailer. I wanted the ability to camp at the race track and use it for duning trips. I bought a fixer upper 10.5' slide-in self contained camper, fabricated an extended and chain tensioned extension for using a weight distributing hitch and hooked up the 24' enclosed trailer. We used this setup for about 4 years but I will admit, it got tight in a 10.5' camper. It got to the point you had to go outside to change your mind. We went on one of my wife's family reunion trips where it rained nearly the entire time and we spend a LOT of time in the camper, combined with the in-laws coming over to play cards. We got home and the wife put her foot down and said that was it, she did not want to be that cramped again. I think she meant that "she is done". All I heard was "we need a bigger RV".

I found a 30' gas Class A and fixed it up. Although it was not equipped to handle the weight of our enclosed trailer, I fabricated a new hitch tying it way up under the coach and getting everything in perfect working condition as well as updating the interior. After about a year of work, we took our first week long road trip to the west coast towing her Jeep Cherokee (XJ) and we had a blast. We were hooked beyond belief. Who would have thought we could travel and be comfortable in a motorhome besides using it at the race track.:thumbs:

From there we stepped up to our first diesel pusher, again a fixer upper. It was a 38' Beaver on a Gillig chassis. I liked the Gillig chassis as it had the bigger air brakes and heavy duty Allison transmisison, even in an older coach. It did a great job towing our 24 enclosed trailer whether hitting the track or traveling. We had that coach for 7 years and put over 45k miles on her. Our present coach is a 40' Monaco Dynasty and we tow a 26' Haulmark Edge trailer loaded with our Harley and Jeep when traveling, as well as having the trailer setup as my rolling shop. This trailer weighs right around 12.5k pounds when loaded and ready to travel.

Now after 20+ years of RVing, we are on our third coach and can't imagine traveling in anything else. But again, that is us. Others have different ideas on traveling and camping. One thing that was nice when traveling with younger children is when they get hungry or we felt like stopping, we could pull into a rest stop, fix lunch and never have to step outside if the weather was bad. My wife keeps me topped off with beverage and snacks while driving as well, another bonus of a motorhome vs. trailer.

Mike.

 

[sixstringsteve]

You guys have me seriously thinking about a Class A now. Whichever solution I choose, I want to be able to bring the mountain bikes with me, and be able to work from the rig. There will be days where we are holed up in the RV just catching up on work, so I at least need a little table to do work. Fortunately it's only the 2 of us and a dog, and we're small people who don't take up much room.

 

[Pile of parts]

Steve, I agree with the above comments. For what you are trying to do, a diesel powered coach towing and enclosed trailer would probably be best. The only downside I see is that it only leaves you with one car when you get where you're going. Maybe that's not an issue?

Mike, I agree. We had an old Class C ('79 Dodge 440 - 23') It would tow the jeep on the trailer (5-6 mpg) but it sure was nice to have a little space to move around in and cold drinks and snacks were readily available. The best trip was our first trip to Moab and my wife informed me I needed to pull over at the next rest stop because she needed a bathroom break. Both of us being new to RVing, I agreed but after a few miles of driving, realized and told her, "We don't need to stop there is a bathroom in the back." Needless to say, we were both happy. Hopefully another motorhome (Coach preferred) will be in our future - it gets in your blood.

Marc, We have since gone the way you describe. Slide in camper/jeep on trailer. Not as roomy as a motorhome/coach but over twice the mpg's that we were getting, fit the budget and works for now. I'd be happy to talk to you about my thoughts and experiences with it as I've already hijacked Steve's thread enough.

 

[zmotorsports]

You guys have me seriously thinking about a Class A now. Whichever solution I choose, I want to be able to bring the mountain bikes with me, and be able to work from the rig. There will be days where we are holed up in the RV just catching up on work, so I at least need a little table to do work. Fortunately it's only the 2 of us and a dog, and we're small people who don't take up much room.

You may think because you are small you won't require much room, but trust me, after a while in an RV, ANY RV, it will get smaller and smaller. With our first motorhome we did a week long trip in and it was huge @ 30' compared to our camper. I was ready to be home after a week long trip. The 38' coach was better and we spent several week plus trips but again after a week of foul weather it gets smaller by the hour. Now with a 40' having three slides equaling over 400 square feet we can go on a couple week trip and be comfortable without feeling like we are on top of each other. I think I could easily full-time in this coach, but I couldn't leave my home shop.

Also keep in mind parking with a rig of much length. We are 72' OAL and trip planning is crucial. We can't simply pull off anywhere and fit. When we travel and doing a "hop, skip and jump" style of road trip staying a night here and a night there, we generally flat-tow the Jeep as it is much easier to hook and unhook for sightseeing once we get to our base camp. If planning on a week in Moab, Colorado or several nights in one spot where we can justify the little extra time strapping the Jeep and the Harley into the trailer then we drag the enclosed trailer along but I always call and have reservations emphasizing our length and my not wanting to unhook and drop the trailer in a remote area of the campground. I will admit, I much prefer to tow the trailer as the Jeep and bike arrive at our destination clean but also because I have my rolling shop along.

Our #1 priority trip once the wife and I retire is pointing the coach to Alaska for about a 3+ months trip. We have friends who have retired and done this trip with and without their trailer. First time dragging their 24' trailer behind their 45' Newell coach and they swore never again as it was too hard to find spots. Next trip they flat-towed their Jeep and found it much more enjoyable to merely pull into any campground and find at least something they fit in without having to have reservations.

I resent the trailer on those quick hop, skip and jump trips. That may or may not compound when full-timing but I thought I would throw that out there.

Mike.

 

[sixstringsteve]

So much good real-world feedback here, thanks guys.

Ditching the shop and tools would be tough for me. That was the initial appeal of a toy hauler; I'd still have some sort of little garage where I could tinker on stuff (work on bikes, replace an alternator, work on small crafts, etc).

 

[zmotorsports]

Steve, I agree with the above comments. For what you are trying to do, a diesel powered coach towing and enclosed trailer would probably be best. The only downside I see is that it only leaves you with one car when you get where you're going. Maybe that's not an issue?

Mike, I agree. We had an old Class C ('79 Dodge 440 - 23') It would tow the jeep on the trailer (5-6 mpg) but it sure was nice to have a little space to move around in and cold drinks and snacks were readily available. The best trip was our first trip to Moab and my wife informed me I needed to pull over at the next rest stop because she needed a bathroom break. Both of us being new to RVing, I agreed but after a few miles of driving, realized and told her, "We don't need to stop there is a bathroom in the back." Needless to say, we were both happy. Hopefully another motorhome (Coach preferred) will be in our future - it gets in your blood.

Hey, they do make a trailer that will carry two vehicles. Stackers. They get even heavier but they are BAD ASS!! We almost bought one when we ordered our new 26' Haulmark Edge in 2008 but it was triple my budget and now after getting out of racing to be honest, I am glad we didn't buy one. My trailer and coach weigh around 49k pounds traveling down the road and my ISL does a good job, much more weight and I may not be as happy with the performance.

Also when contemplating sizes of coaches, keep one thing in mind, WEIGHT! Weight is everything. The more amenities you want your home on wheels to have, the more weight you will be carrying and requiring a chassis, engine and transmission to handle and stop. Solid wood interiors last longer and look better but are heavier, solid surface countertops, same thing, tile floors, yep they are heavy too. Bigger coaches have bigger engines with more HP and torque but also more weight which I have found seems to be an equalizer as most (let me reiterate most, not all) have similar power to weight ratios. Granted there are some that are hot rods based on smaller coaches with big engines but that is the exception rather than the rule. I have found in order to be happy with the performance if you can stay close to 100 pounds per horsepower and under the 45 pound per foot pound of torque you will for the most part be happy.

Just for perspective, here is our coach and trailer with the Jeep parked outside for a visual. Trust me, there are much larger ones on the road. My wife thinks ours is huge but we seem to always attract a larger one parked right next to us when traveling and then ours seems small.

This was in Moab last fall.

Mike.

 

[zmotorsports]

So much good real-world feedback here, thanks guys.

Ditching the shop and tools would be tough for me. That was the initial appeal of a toy hauler; I'd still have some sort of little garage where I could tinker on stuff (work on bikes, replace an alternator, work on small crafts, etc).

Fortunately Steve, the sky is the limit for setting up any kind of RV for any purpose. UN-fortunately, if you are like me, $$$$ is the bigger issue. Budget is what has to keep me grounded and keep things in perspective. The other items I have just picked up on after 20+ years of RVing and well over 100k miles. Even then I am learning all the time and enjoy meeting new people on the road, I come back from each and every trip knowing something I didn't know the trip before.

Mike.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I like the idea of a more nimble rig. Here are our requirements:

- able to carry 2 mountain bikes (which aren't exactly small). This includes being able to pull them inside and outside without getting the rig dirty or damaging anything.
- able to bring along a run-around vehicle (either flat towing, inside, or in a trailer). I'm ok getting a tiny car for this, like a scion iQ, toyota yaris, etc.
- able to sleep 2 adults
- insulation for year-round living
- enough space inside to do work for 5 hours at a time relatively comfortably


It does not need:
- leather
- TONS of space
- massaging chairs
- a million TVs
- outside speakers

 

[zmotorsports]

I like the idea of a more nimble rig. Here are our requirements:

- able to carry 2 mountain bikes (which aren't exactly small)
- able to bring along a run-around vehicle (either flat towing, inside, or in a trailer). I'm ok getting a tiny car for this, like a scion iQ, toyota yaris, etc.
- able to sleep 2 adults
- insulation for year-round living
- enough space inside to do work for 5 hours at a time relatively comfortably


It does not need:
- leather
- TONS of space
- massaging chairs
- a million TVs
- outside speakers

With those specific requirement, I would still lean towards a diesel coach. More in the 34-36 foot range which will give you your nimble driving requirement and still allow you to stay in smaller BLM, Forest Service or State parks. It is able to tow either a smaller enclose trailer or flat-tow any toad you choose that is towable. You could then put a bike carrier in the receiver of the toad to carry your mountain bikes. This is how we carry ours when we are just flat-towing the Jeep, personally I would just assume leave them home but the wife likes to take them. Last week we carried them all the way to Capitol Reef and back and never rode them.

If you were dead set on a trailer either standard 5th wheel or toyhauler then I would stay on the smaller side in the 30-34' range and use a 3/4 to 1-ton truck as your run-around vehicle yet stout enough to carry that size trailer and hang the mountain bikes on the rear of the trailer. If you decide to go up in size from there into the 38+ foot range (18k pound+) range then I would personally look towards a diesel powered FL60/FL70 with air brakes and exhaust brake, but then they get a little more cumbersome cruising around in when arriving at your destination. We see people do it as we see these tow rigs in campgrounds quite a lot but I don't know if I would want to cruise to the grocery store or downtown in a more populated area and try to find a parking spot where someone wouldn't block you in.

Another thing to keep in mind, a 40-footer in my opinion doesn't really handle any different either better or worse than a 34 footer but site sizes in smaller state and federal campgrounds will be impaired with a larger rig. The ride is better the bigger you go obviously but handling not so much. My wife and I joke about the bigger we have gone the less they sleep. We have a saying that goes, drinks for 6, dinner for 4, sleeps 2.

Mike.

 

[sixstringsteve]

unfortunately leaving the bikes on the outside of the vehicle isn't an option. The bikes are worth more than our toad, and they'll get hammered being out in the elements all the time. biking is a big focus of our travels, so unfortunately (or fortunately) they have to come with. Truth be told, the bikes really throw a wrench in the options. THey were the initial reason we looked at toy haulers, then we got sucked into the idea of being able to bring the miata inside.

 

[ricsrx]

Marc
I have a 1994 Ford E 350 460 29 ish, i love having a motor home! but i got into rock crawling and how do you get two rigs to the trial?
I have a 28' enclosed trailer bumper pull that i love that will get both trucks in, but the motorhome cant pull it,(too much tongue weight, i think it would push the motorhome around).


the truck will pull the trailer but if im using the truck id rather have the goose on the back.

sell the motor home, invest in a toter home, then i can pull either trailer, still keep the truck....

sorry Steve i got alittle off subject

 

[ricsrx]

I say
A Class motor home w/24' enclosed trailer, put your work bench up front with the bike racks, Miata in the rear!

 

[joshbmx1201]

I say
A Class motor home w/24' enclosed trailer, put your work bench up front with the bike racks, Miata in the rear!

this is the best setup in my opinion. with a enclosed trailer you want the diesel pusher though. skip the v10 or 8.1

 

[pELYgroso]

Steve, based on the last requirements that you listed, my set up would be just about perfect. I have a 28 ft bumper pull toy hauler that pulls great behind my 95 f350 psd. The miata wouldn't fit but a fiat 500 or similar would. It has a great layout that we looked a long time for. Solar panel keeps the battery topped off, after market fireplace runs using propane only if the power is out, plus it is just cool to have a fireplace in the camper. has a nice space for working on bikes, etc and a nice "apartment" area separate from the living area. It is a little smaller than the other options listed but I think would serve your purpose well. We had a 22' class c before this and the only thing we miss is the ability to go to the bathroom or make a sandwich while on the road. But, having to stop to run back to the camper to do those things just means that we stop more places and see a few more things that we wouldn't have seen otherwise. The psd gets 16 mpg empty, so dd'ing it isn't too bad when needed. It is a little more nimble than other suggestions, too, so pulling out down a dirt road and off the road to a camp spot isn't all that bad. The truck and trailer have plenty of clearance for light off road traversing when you want to get off the asphalt. Just something to think about. You're welcome to come see it
if you want. Another pro of this setup, you can pick up a similar truck and trailer setup for around $17k total. And I wouldn't hesitate to drive my truck across the country, even with 280k on it. (95 psd, all stock with a leveling kit and 35s, 5 speed)

 

[sixstringsteve]

Cool tyler, thanks! I'm going to take you up on your offer and come check it out soon.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I've been doing some more research on the bus conversion. It'd be a project, that's for sure. I feel like I could handle most of it, but there are a few parts that would be out of my comfort zone:

1) wiring
2) generator
3) water tanks
4) a/c units
5) keeping an older bus mechanically sound all the time

I'm not entirely ruling out a bus, but it'd take a LOT of work to get it where I need. Furthermore, I'd love a slide, and adding a slide to a bus is an enormous undertaking.

I'm also worried about length with a class A towing a trailer. It'd be tough to find spots to camp/boondock with such a huge setup.