Who's wrong?????

[CJJ92yj]

Who's wrong????? *** UPDATED ***

Ever have a job you're working on go so wrong, yet you are 100% sure you are correct? Ever have all your coworkers totally pissed at you believing that they are 100% right and you are 100% wrong? That's how my last 3 weeks have been here at work, and it's really starting to get to me.

I work at a plate steel fabrication shop. I am a detailer up in the engineering department. I was given this contract a while ago and so I went about the detailing on it. Time passes, and now it's in the shop being fabricated. Pieces aren't fitting the way they are supposed to fit. I, along with all the engineering department, am convinced that the layout is right and the forming of the plates is wrong. The entire shop is convinced that I am an idiot and layed it out wrong. It looks like there is too much material in places, and not enough in others. I have challenged everyone in the company to prove me wrong. Most people don't have the time to dedicate to that task, but a few have taken me up on it (office employees, not shop guys). Interesting that everyone that has tried to prove me wrong has done no less than prove me correct. It's all about finger pointing if you ask me. But still it don't fit together. We've tried almost everything we can think of. The shop employees are about to hang me I think. Yet I am still convinced that I have the proper material layout for the geometric shape I am trying to achieve.

It's getting close to the point that I scrap about $10,000 of material and $30,000 of labor and choose a different geometric and start completely over. What would you do to help convince everyone you are right if you indeed are right? I need help here to redeem myself!!!

 

[Shawn]

Well for one instead of trying to convince everyone that they or you are wrong, as a TEAM you should ALL get together and try to resolve this issue. Get passed the finger pointing and move on to the resolution. As a team, you should be able to figure out what is wrong. As a team, you should be able to save the company 40g's.

 

[PierCed_3]

Like Shawn said, you all work for the same company... get together and try to work it out as a team.

 

[CJJ92yj]

Sounds bad I know. We are collectively trying to find a solution. But nothing seems to be working. I think it war formed incorrectly. They think it is layed out wrong. Project Manager is on vacation. But he thinks it also is layed out wrong. It really does affect everyone. We are a profit sharing company, and it's going right down the crapper on this job.

We decided about five minutes ago to build a 1/4 scale model of it out of thinner plate. That way we can elimintate all the seams that would be there. We can form it in the break/press and it should fit together. This will let us know if it should work, or if the layout is wrong.

I will let you all know next week what comes of the 1/4 scale model.

 

[OCNORB]

Please don't take this wrong, but whenever I have seen a case such as yours the experienced shop guys are usually correct. They've been doing the thinking and the grunt work to make whatever has been given them for years.

Once in a while it is a case of the experienced shop guys being pissed off at management though. Are there other issues here?? Most guys are more proffesional than that, but we all have our down times.

The 1/4 scale idea sounds like it might help! Good Luck.

 

[CJJ92yj]

Well, the 1/4 scale model won't turn out right either. Man, this is getting frustrating. I truly believe that I have the correct layout and material for the geometric shape which I have chosen. However, I am also convinced that I didn't choose the geometric shape that would be the easiest to form.

I know the experienced shop guys are doing their best to get this done. And I don't think there is much else I can do to help them get to where we need to be with this. We are going to have another meeting with everyone involved in the project (shop guys, engineering guys, project manager, president) and see what the next best course of action is going to be.

 

[Tacoma]

Since the model didn't come out either, I think it's time for you to admit defeat. Things go together right if layout is right, ya know....

 

[CJJ92yj]

I will never admit defeat. j/k

Actually, we/ve found out that the problem is that we need a way to twist the plate as we press it in the break. We can tilt the blade in the break, which is one of the things we needed, but we need a bed in the break that will develop a certain degree of twist in the plate as it is pressed into the bed. Unfortunately we dont' have that capability yet.

We have decided the best course of action now is to flatten all the formed plates and cut some material from a few areas. This will allow us to bend on different formation lines and thus develop a slightly different geometric shape. Should be much easier to form as it won't require any twist and the blade will not need to be tilted to obtain an unequal bend, as the bend will be equal along it's length. May sound confusing, but it will work out better.

What is interesting here is that everyone involved from the engineering department has admitted that the first geometric shape chosen was the most obvious shape to go with. Although now, it looks as if it was the most difficult to form. At a significant cost, we've found the best way to accomplish what we are after, and hope to make money hand over fist on all future contracts that require this sort of thing.

 

[Tacoma]

sooo... what you're saying is, the layout was wrong? hahah ahhh I'm just messing with you. Glad to hear the problem is solved though.

My dad's an engineer, so it's just childhood issues coming back. Sorry. MOOAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[CJJ92yj]

I would love to say the layout was wrong. In fact, probably everyone would like that. AT least it's something solid to point your finger at and say that's what was wrong. But the entire engineering department is sure that I had the correct layout for the geometric shape I was trying to make. And that shape was the most obvious one to use when we started. But time told us that in fact it wasn't the right one. It was all but imposible for us to form with the equipment we have.

But we've figured out the error of our ways. I guess you could say I was wrong because I did choose the wrong shape. But when the entire department agreed with me, I figured I was right. Turns out I wasn't right with the shape that would be easiest to make. Being that we've never attempted to make anything like this before, the company is quite understanding about the issue. We are probably going to be building quite a few of these in the future, so we now know the easiest way, and will hopefully make money next time.

 

[Tacoma]

well doggone it, all this talk about this mystery shape has got me curious. I don't suppose you could tell me just what this thing is, could you? LOL

live and learn I guess!

 

[RockMonkey]

well doggone it, all this talk about this mystery shape has got me curious. I don't suppose you could tell me just what this thing is, could you? LOL

live and learn I guess!

Yeah! WTH is it?

 

[CJJ92yj]

It is called a Double Udder. It goes inside an Ore Bin (plate steel silo about 27 feet in diameter and about 100 feet tall). The double udder is simply nothing more than a transition from a half round to a full round. Height of the double udder is 16'-6" and each outlet is 8 feet in diameter. There are basically two udders or halves. They are separated by a flat plate, which in turn is stiffened by a built up crotch. The crotch consists of 1" thick plate for the vertical part, or web. And 1-1/2" thick plate for the flange. It is stiffened by 3/8" plate gussets at about 24" on center. I should have snapped a pic of it as it was in the original shape, but didn't. I'll try to remember to get a pic of it after the new shape gets formed.

crappy pic, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Tacoma]

Crikey!

that's heavy duty! Thank you!

 

[CJJ92yj]

Just under 40,000 pounds for that assembly alone.

 

[RockMonkey]

Interesting. You're forming that out of flat plate, cut into a jigsaw puzzle? Sounds like an assembly nightmare.

 

[CJJ92yj]

wouldn't be too bad if it had equal bends, like the new shape will have. but trying to make an unequal angle bend and make it twist at the same time is aparently a little too much. I'm sure it would be done, but who's got time for that.

 

[CJJ92yj]

there are 9 pieces of plate that need to be formed, then welded together to make one half.

 

[CJJ92yj]

OK, here are a few pics of the double udder as it should be. This is of course of the new shape for those of you who have been following my saga. It only has one udder now, as it will be shipped welded to the crotch beam that is also shown in the pics. the other udder will be shipped the same, but without the crotch beam. There are a few more W-Tee stiffeners that need to be added to the flat plate to keep it flat when the product is inside. Also, it's upside down now incas you didn't figure that out. The small diameter is now within 1/8" if being exactly where it should be, both in height and in x-axis and y-axis coordinates.

OOPS, I'll have to resize the rest of the pics. And sorry about them being so blurry, it's from a friend's $35 digicam.

 

[RockMonkey]

Wow, it's big.