Willys Crawler 2.0 aka The Bastard
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Yeah, I copied @Herzog on that one ... he has a similar rear tube. Its beefy, just in case I need to yank from it. The rock fangs are going to stay though, they're already glued on and make another recovery option.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Sorry about all the pics, just getting excited to see it with axles under it (kinda).
Ok, I think this is close to the final look far as height, width and wheelbase.
22" from frame rails to ground, 101" WB, 6' 1" to top of cage. Front axle should end up at 66 1/4" WMS and 82" to outside sidewall. Its not too tall, nor is it super low... I think its a good all around compromise with enough uptravel. And there should be enough room to fit 39's in the future! 😍
Ok, I think this is close to the final look far as height, width and wheelbase.
22" from frame rails to ground, 101" WB, 6' 1" to top of cage. Front axle should end up at 66 1/4" WMS and 82" to outside sidewall. Its not too tall, nor is it super low... I think its a good all around compromise with enough uptravel. And there should be enough room to fit 39's in the future! 😍
Last edited:
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
18" from the ground to the lowest point on skidplate, about 20" to the frame. So the Willys is 2" higher at the frame, with 37's versus 40's on the TJ. So if I do eventually get 39's on this, it'll be around 23-23 1/2" to the frame.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
So I don't have much uptravel between the top of the rear pumpkin and the floor of the tub... I was going to run a truss and put my joints on top, but I don't think I will have more than 3" up travel if I do that. I'd be riding around on the bump stops at that point.
I might build a more custom truss that is flatter and run my control arms on the side of the pumpkin, rather than on top? It reduces the amount of separation and triangulation, which I don't like. I really don't want to cut the floor and raise it by a few inches to make it work.
This pic is set at the same ride height as the previous pics.-
Open to ideas....
I might build a more custom truss that is flatter and run my control arms on the side of the pumpkin, rather than on top? It reduces the amount of separation and triangulation, which I don't like. I really don't want to cut the floor and raise it by a few inches to make it work.
This pic is set at the same ride height as the previous pics.-
Open to ideas....
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
There are still gaping holes in the tub! I need to fix that, too. My biggest issue with raising the floor, is that I built the rear body mounts into the floor of the tub....
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Pile of parts
Well-Known Member
- Location
- South Jordan
I used this truss on my front axle for the same reason. I didn't have a lot of room. Yes, you do lose a little separation, but if you don't want to modify the floor in the back. This truss my not be what you're after because it's designed for a front axle. However, you get the idea.
Dana 60 Simple Front Truss
Made by builders, for builders. Shop our Dana 60 front truss today! CNC laser cut and formed from 1/2" steel.
www.tmrcustoms.com
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I used this truss on my front axle for the same reason. I didn't have a lot of room. Yes, you do lose a little separation, but if you don't want to modify the floor in the back. This truss my not be what you're after because it's designed for a front axle. However, you get the idea.
Dana 60 Simple Front Truss
Made by builders, for builders. Shop our Dana 60 front truss today! CNC laser cut and formed from 1/2" steel.
That could possibly work, but the reduced link separation is an issue. I might just (sigh) take Nate's advice and chop up the floor.
I think I could leave about 4" of floor around the sides for the body mounts, box it in real good so it's supportive and raise the floor up by 3".Nobody told me it would be this much work to build a Jeep from the ground, up!! 😭
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I know link separation is often said to be 25% of tire height as minimum, but I haven't read the why? I supposed the joint type can make the difference here, as rubber joints will allow more torsional flex/compression than heims, but why? What bad characteristic is induced if you only have 20% link separation? Radius arms or even a "one-link" don't have that much separation.
RockChucker
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Highland
I wouldn’t be afraid of running your uppers off the side of the pumpkin. But don’t be afraid to think outside the box either. Like triangulate your lower links and run straight uppers outside the frame rail. As long as you have separation adjustability at one end of the link, you’ll be able to tune your anti squat to what you want...as long as it isn’t super far out to begin with.
- Location
- West Haven, UT
Top shelf work Greg. Everything is coming together very nicely. 👍
Mike
Mike
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I'm sure it all has to do with leverage at the axle and fighting axle wrap, making the rear suspension work properly. You want your rear links to converge at the instant center, which should be below the center of gravity. By reducing the separation at the rear axle, you're messing with those important factors.
I sat under the Willys for about 30 min last night with the rear axle in place, running thru different link placements. I really need to get the engine/trans/t-case in, if I'm not going to run a traditional triangulated 4 link with the rear uppers on the frame. It's hard to see where the t-case will sit and if I can run a cross-member under it for link mounts. There are a lot of options right now, but I don't have to stress about it yet... I still have plenty of work to do before I get there! But gathering up the rest of the drivetrain is becoming pretty important.
Appreciate that Mike! Not bad for a guy that is figuring it out as he goes!
It's not perfect, but it's good enought for what it is.You have that backward a bit in the first paragraph. Your instant center IS where your upper and lower links converge. If you have lots of convergence at the frame (like the old Factory Tubular/Outer Limit buggies always were), your instant center is essentially where the links mounted to the frame. WAY too far rearward, so they'd jack and hop. Separate the frame side a bunch, and they'd calm down a lot. When the uppers and lowers are more parallel (when viewed from the side) you'll get a lot more "neutral" handling throughout the range of travel. My super-specific recommendation would be to aim for "a little" anti-squat.I'm sure it all has to do with leverage at the axle and fighting axle wrap, making the rear suspension work properly. You want your rear links to converge at the instant center, which should be below the center of gravity. By reducing the separation at the rear axle, you're messing with those important factors.
I sat under the Willys for about 30 min last night with the rear axle in place, running thru different link placements. I really need to get the engine/trans/t-case in, if I'm not going to run a traditional triangulated 4 link with the rear uppers on the frame. It's hard to see where the t-case will sit and if I can run a cross-member under it for link mounts. There are a lot of options right now, but I don't have to stress about it yet... I still have plenty of work to do before I get there! But gathering up the rest of the drivetrain is becoming pretty important.
Appreciate that Mike! Not bad for a guy that is figuring it out as he goes!
@RockMonkey's old YJ only had about 6" of link separation at the rear axle, and it worked fine. My first buggy didn't have much more than that, since I mounted the lower links above the axle tube.
I'm not saying more separation isn't a good thing, but it's not a deal-killer. It just increases the forces on the links/joints/bracketry with less.
- Location
- West Haven, UT
Appreciate that Mike! Not bad for a guy that is figuring it out as he goes!
We're all just figuring out stuff as we go aren't we Greg?
Keep up the great progress.
Mike
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
You have that backward a bit in the first paragraph. Your instant center IS where your upper and lower links converge. If you have lots of convergence at the frame (like the old Factory Tubular/Outer Limit buggies always were), your instant center is essentially where the links mounted to the frame. WAY too far rearward, so they'd jack and hop. Separate the frame side a bunch, and they'd calm down a lot. When the uppers and lowers are more parallel (when viewed from the side) you'll get a lot more "neutral" handling throughout the range of travel. My super-specific recommendation would be to aim for "a little" anti-squat.
@RockMonkey's old YJ only had about 6" of link separation at the rear axle, and it worked fine. My first buggy didn't have much more than that, since I mounted the lower links above the axle tube.
I'm not saying more separation isn't a good thing, but it's not a deal-killer. It just increases the forces on the links/joints/bracketry with less.
Listen to what I mean, not what I say.
*edit*
Yes, you are correct... my wording was hastily written and not accurate. I should have said the instant center IS the point they converge.
Good insight about separation at the axle!
Last edited:
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I knew I was on to something there! 😁
And thank you Carl for chiming in. Those are all good details I will need to remember when it comes time to clean up Britney's rear.
😉
