Jeep Wrangler JL/JT EcoDiesel discussion; 2nd Gen engine with fixes?

[Greg]

We've had plenty of discussion about the EcoDiesel (VM Motari 3.0l V6), now that engine is planned for the latest generation Wrangler models, the JL and JT I'm hoping that they've fixed the issues. Anyone that has followed these engines knows that they've been less than reliable for many people that bought them, which is a shame because they make amazing torque, get great MPG's and would be perfect in a Wrangler.

@clfrnacwby has posted his thread about his Dodge Ram EcoDiesel experience - https://www.rme4x4.com/threads/2015-ram-1500-ecodiesel.108671/

And the early discussion about a Diesel in the Wrangler - https://www.rme4x4.com/threads/jku-diesel-engine-discussion.105277/

I have heard from a inside source that Fiat/VM Motari has 'fixed' the issues for the EcoDiesel with an updated version of the engine, but I have my doubts.... anyone else heard anything?

 

[Greg]

No real mention of the changes in the next Gen EcoDiesel, but they mention some of the improvements. The next Gen ED will make 260 horsepower and 442 lb-ft of torque, compared to the previous one that made 240 HP and 420 ft/lbs. -
https://www.tfltruck.com/2017/11/2019-ram-1500-jeep-new-diesel-v6-specs/

 

[Anchor_Mtn]

I havent heard of any physical changes to the motor. The new hp/tq specs sound like a fresh tune is all.

Ill be sticking with a gasser if I pull the trigger on a JT scrambler

 

[Greg]

I havent heard of any physical changes to the motor. The new hp/tq specs sound like a fresh tune is all.

Ill be sticking with a gasser if I pull the trigger on a JT scrambler

From the article above...

How did FCA and Jeep get the additional power? Minimizing internal engine friction is the name of the game. Jeep says, the upgrades include the following.

• new turbocharger with a low-friction bearing.
• low friction pistons (for improved fuel economy and reduced emissions)
• new injector nozzles
• new piston “bowl” design
• new glow plug design with integrated combustion pressure sensor to optimize combustion

I'm back and forth with the EcoDiesel vs Pentastar, I would like a JL/JT.... will probably end up with a JL as the JT/Scrambler is going to be priced 'intentionally high'. I love the idea of a turbo diesel in a Wrangler, the torque and mileage are incredibly appealing for me. It should be possible to get 600+ miles out of a tank of fuel. Adding a tune to the EcoDeisel can reduce the carbon build up issues and allow for over 500 ft/lbs!

IIRC, some of the issues in the current EcoDiesel include cam gear failures, rod bolts not being torqued properly, emissions/EGR/carbon problems, injection pump problems, etc, etc. Lots of reading, but it seems like the EcoDiesel has a 50/50 success/failure rate once they reach over 40k miles... (**EDIT** - In reality it's nowhere near that number, read below)

http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1500-diesel-mechanical/8564-eco-diesel-engine-failures.html

 

[mbryson]

.... Lots of reading, but it seems like the EcoDiesel has a 50/50 success/failure rate once they reach over 40k miles...
....

That’s worse than a Ford 6.0 or 6.4L

 

[Greg]

That’s worse than a Ford 6.0 or 6.4L

I may be wrong on the percentage, but it's alarmingly high.

 

[clfrnacwby]

I have no idea what the failure rate is; however, I do know that those whose engines have failed have been very, very loud. I did hear quite a few stories of cam gear slippage/spun main bearings as the root cause. My guess is that this failure rate was high enough to prompt the July 2016 change, in which the factory recommended oil to run in the ecodiesel went from Ultra Euro L full synthetic 5W-30 to SAE 5W-40 Synthetic, API CJ-4. I believe since then, the failure rate has reduced.

So far, my ecodiesel has been rock solid. For those who want increased performance, there are engine tunes, turbo upgrades, and even a compound option...because who wouldn't want 400hp 600lb. ft. of torque out of 3 liter power plant.... This engine has great potential - I'm excited for its future.

 

[Greg]

I have no idea what the failure rate is; however, I do know that those whose engines have failed have been very, very loud. I did hear quite a few stories of cam gear slippage/spun main bearings as the root cause. My guess is that this failure rate was high enough to prompt the July 2016 change, in which the factory recommended oil to run in the ecodiesel went from Ultra Euro L full synthetic 5W-30 to SAE 5W-40 Synthetic, API CJ-4. I believe since then, the failure rate has reduced.

So far, my ecodiesel has been rock solid. For those who want increased performance, there are engine tunes, turbo upgrades, and even a compound option...because who wouldn't want 400hp 600lb. ft. of torque out of 3 liter power plant.... This engine has great potential - I'm excited for its future.

Speaking of tunes, I heard that a Green Diesel Engineering Hot Tune helps prevent excessive re-gens and less carbon buildup, which eventually leads to expensive exhaust failures. http://www.greendieselengineering.c...m/GDE/Ram-1500-EcoDiesel-Hot-Tune/2_37.action

How many miles on your truck now? Any mods/tunes planned?

 

[clfrnacwby]

Speaking of tunes, I heard that a Green Diesel Engineering Hot Tune helps prevent excessive re-gens and less carbon buildup, which eventually leads to expensive exhaust failures. http://www.greendieselengineering.c...m/GDE/Ram-1500-EcoDiesel-Hot-Tune/2_37.action

How many miles on your truck now? Any mods/tunes planned?

I am coming up on 45k. I go back and forth with mods. PPEI and GDE both make tunes - I would definitely go with GDE as I feel that is the "safer" choice (no hard evidence...just gut feeling...haha). The GDE hot tune improves many things as you mentioned and keeps all emissions in tact. They do have an offroad tune for a full delete of the DPF and all associated parts. With the possibility of emissions requirements coming back to Utah County, a full delete is not looking as appealing. My wife is not helping either...she keeps saying go big or go home...run the compounds/full delete and be giddy as a school boy.

 

[UNSTUCK]

As you’ve posted links to the ram ecodiesel forum already you know it’s the main forum for eco diesel owners. Searching there will give you all your answers. The failure rate is actually more like 1%. If I remember right as of 2017 there was about 104k total eco’s. Including Jeep. There was an email floating around from fca saying around 10k failures. While I’m not happy about that number, it seems to be in line with acceptable failure rates. Seems to be a #4 rod bearing issue which the new oil may be helping but isn’t stopping the issue. I’m not aware of an engine failure from a truck that actually is used as a truck and not a commuter only. I’m sure it’s happened though. The cam slippage is a non issue that got a lot of hyp in the first year but has rightly fizzeled out.

I bought my eco at 17k miles and am now at 46k. I tow my boat at almost the max towing capacity. Does great. My only concern is keeping engine oil temps in check. It defuels at 266* and hills like parleys can get it there quick. So I go slow up the hills. No big deal to me.

 

[Greg]

As you’ve posted links to the ram ecodiesel forum already you know it’s the main forum for eco diesel owners. Searching there will give you all your answers. The failure rate is actually more like 1%.

If that's truly the case, then I won't worry! I have read that thread all the way thru and it sure sounded more like a 30-40% rate... with most of those being catastrophic failures.

If I remember right as of 2017 there was about 104k total eco’s. Including Jeep. There was an email floating around from fca saying around 10k failures. While I’m not happy about that number, it seems to be in line with acceptable failure rates. Seems to be a #4 rod bearing issue which the new oil may be helping but isn’t stopping the issue. I’m not aware of an engine failure from a truck that actually is used as a truck and not a commuter only. I’m sure it’s happened though. The cam slippage is a non issue that got a lot of hyp in the first year but has rightly fizzeled out.

I read about several rods coming apart and the issue was rod bolts that either weren't tightened or apparently torqued. If it's a 1% failure rate, than I'd think it's acceptable.

I bought my eco at 17k miles and am now at 46k. I tow my boat at almost the max towing capacity. Does great. My only concern is keeping engine oil temps in check. It defuels at 266* and hills like parleys can get it there quick. So I go slow up the hills. No big deal to me.

Good to know about the miles, seems like you're over the 40k mark so you should be golden!

 

[UNSTUCK]

Yeah, I bought my truck before I learned about the issues. I have to say I was pretty worried for a while, as I got caught up in the hype. I have been very happy with the truck so far. I will surprise myself, though, if I keep it past the 100k drivetrain warranty. Not because of the engine, but because of the DEF system. But that goes for ANY truck running these systems. In reality, I should be looking for a clean 2006 duramax. This one just rides so nice.

 

[rholbrook]

I am looking at the new JL. As bad as the I would want the truck, I'm not going to get one because I am sure they will bring more than they are worth. My 2016 JKU will be up for sell before too long. Diesel isnt worth the money for me. I dont put enough miles on them to justify one.

 

[Greg]

So a few weeks ago I spent some time at the Jeep dealer, looking at the new JL's. I had some time to burn, so I asked the salesman if they had a EcoDiesel Dodge Ram I could drive, since I'm very interested in the engine when it comes out in the Wrangler. He said they did have a used truck that was recently traded in that I could test drive. The truck with a couple years old with around 50k miles on it. Obviously an older EcoDiesel engine.

I was worried that the small 3.0 liter turbo diesel engine would feel like it was working quite hard to push the Ram around. The one I was driving is a 4 door with a fiberglass cap over the bed, not a lightweight 4x4 by any means.

Once behind the wheel, pulling out onto the highway and getting up to speed with traffic was amazing, the turbo diesel engine mated to the 8 speed ZF 8HP is a great combination. It's quiet, but pretty quick.... hardly any noise or clatter like a diesel of old. You have to focus to hear anything and all I really could hear from the drivers seat was the turbo building boost.... and I have no problem with that! The 8 speed does a great job keeping the EcoDiesel operating in the meat of it's powerband, making the big Ram accelerate with ease and it feels like the truck has a big-block under the hood, with so much torque available down low in the RPM range. Speeding up to get around slower traffic is no less impressive, the EcoDiesel does whats asked with ease and doesn't feel like it's working hard at all.

I came away from the EcoDiesel test drive VERY excited about the idea of this engine in the Wrangler. I think that it will be a great match with the 8 speed auto and will work well with people that want to lift their JL/JT Wranglers and run larger tires. I'm sure that if you run really big tires (37"+) then re-gearing the axles will be smart to keep the engine/transmission operating efficiently. I've been fan of diesel engines for a long time, I can only hope that VM Motari has figured out and fixed the previous issues with the EcoDiesel, as this combo in the Wrangler has been a long time coming and very desirable for a lot of people.

I think that with a tune and some minor mods to help the EcoDiesel breathe better, this little engine could be a torque monster, while still getting amazing MPG's and range.

 

[Greg]

I've been following the latest EcoDiesel news, anxiously awaiting the release of the diesel in the Jeep Wrangler & Gladiator which is planned to happen late this year. The most recent development I heard was that Jeep engineers are trying to figure out how to make the DPF regen work in a vehicle that may be offroad and not able to meet the minimum 35 MPH speed that the engine needs to regen and burn off soot. I read something that mentioned if the engine doesn't regen, it'll go into limp mode. Not good if you're out wheelin for the day and far away from open roads where you can meet the criteria to go into regen! It'll be interesting to see what they figure out.

There are pics of a preproduction JLU Sahara going around that was fitted with an EcoDiesel and the tank for the DPF(?) hangs pretty low behind the rear axle.

'

 

[Hickey]

Exhaust packaging will certainly be an issue for these rigs. As far as regen issues, they really need to allow the user to manually start a regen like we can on semi trucks.

 

[clfrnacwby]

There are pics of a preproduction JLU Sahara going around that was fitted with an EcoDiesel and the tank for the DPF(?) hangs pretty low behind the rear axle.

That would be the DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) tank. The DPF (diesel particulate filter) is first in line in the exhaust system and traps most of the soot. This is what engineers have a hard time deciding what the vehicle should do in the case where blockage is high enough that a "regen" is required (which requires vehicles to travel at a high rate of speed for X amount of time). The SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) is downstream from the DPF and this is where the DEF is injected - A chemical reaction then occurs, which is intended to further reduce emissions.

 

[Greg]

That would be the DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) tank. The DPF (diesel particulate filter) is first in line in the exhaust system and traps most of the soot. This is what engineers have a hard time deciding what the vehicle should do in the case where blockage is high enough that a "regen" is required (which requires vehicles to travel at a high rate of speed for X amount of time). The SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) is downstream from the DPF and this is where the DEF is injected - A chemical reaction then occurs, which is intended to further reduce emissions.

That's right, I read the article a few days earlier and got them mixed up. Terrible location for a DEF tank, I wonder if that's because it's a prototype? Surely Jeep wouldn't put the DEF tank right there.

 

[clfrnacwby]

That's right, I read the article a few days earlier and got them mixed up. Terrible location for a DEF tank, I wonder if that's because it's a prototype? Surely Jeep wouldn't put the DEF tank right there.

Agreed...horrible location. GM heavy duty trucks have their DEF tank on the passenger's side below the frame and that has not gone over well. The fill tube is under the hood at the back of the engine...not cool. Rumor is that in 2020 they finally relocate it closer to the fuel tank. In fairness, I can't image it's very easy to figure out how to cram another 8 gallon (or so) tank into the Wrangler...and in a convenient location for the owner to fill it.

 

[UNSTUCK]

FYI, we are slowly getting reports of 2018 rams loosing engines. It would apear that the issues has not been corrected and probably the reason why a 2019 is not available yet with the eco. If the Jeep is close to coming to market (I don’t know. Haven’t been watching) I wouldn’t buy one until the rams are getting them.