Your Pic of The Day

[Houndoc]

While no doubt the situation in Ukraine has had an effect on the current situation. Shit was going sideways waaaaaay before that happened. It’s just a convenient scape goat/blame shift (if I could find a meme of Julia Robert’s in the Mexican yelling blame shifter) of the government. This BS was wholly brought to you socialist policy and paying people $18hr to flip burgers.

Hey we raised minimum wage and are paying “lower income” people a livable wage now. Give me a break, I’m no economic expert, I’m sharp as a marble and I could see this coming.

Fact check, federal minimum wage has not been raised in over a decade (July 2009.)
But you are very correct that market forces are driving up wages (I see that first hand as a business owner) and that indeed can drive inflation (in the late 70s, early 80s significant inflation was driven in part by a cycle of higher prices and wage increases.)
But do I favor keeping people in poverty so I can buy more cheap burgers? Not really.
I do find it also ironic that the same people who are most opposed to higher pay also complain the most about social programs for low wage workers.

Where does the power come from for that electric car?????

Yawn inducing comeback.
We are all smart enough to know electricity needs to be generated (and that it is not so simple as to call electrics coal powered as some used to do) but my entire point was that electricity prices are far more stable than gas prices.
A factually correct statement that is irrelevant to the source of power used to generate electricity.

 

[Hickey]

Ugh. @Houndoc did you really just try to be a fact checker over a statement that wasn't technically what you were fact checking? He never said federal. That was douchey.

 

[Hickey]

As far as the electric vs ITC vehicles argument goes, I'd rather drill a mile deep into the earth than see more lithium strip mines shredding the beautiful desert landscapes of Nevada and other places. I've seen so many of them tear down mountains over the years that I'm disgusted by it.

 

[TRD270]

But do I favor keeping people in poverty so I can buy more cheap burgers? Not really.
I do find it also ironic that the same people who are most opposed to higher pay also complain the most about social programs for low wage workers

It was a broad statement about basically all what I would consider entry level jobs. Starting people wages to scan your groceries at $7 more an hour than I started as a police officer is ridiculous. Yeah you raised their wage out of the old standard poverty level, but you just raised the poverty level by doing so by increasing the cost of everything. Yeah raising wages looks good on paper and sounds great in a campaign speech. However the people you’re “helping” are no better off than they were and if you asking me you are just dragging more people down into poverty because not all levels of employment are seeing increases.

 

[Hickey]

It was a broad statement about basically all what I would consider entry level jobs. Starting people wages to scan your groceries at $7 more an hour than I started as a police officer is ridiculous. Yeah you raised their wage out of the old standard poverty level, but you just raised the poverty level by doing so by increasing the cost of everything. Yeah raising wages looks good on paper and sounds great in a campaign speech. However the people you’re “helping” are no better off than they were and if you asking me you are just dragging more people down into poverty because not all levels of employment are seeing increases.

Well, Walmart doesn't pay their employees a fair wage...




😂

 

[jeeper]

I also heard on the radio that the power grid couldn't actually even support only 10% of people going to electric cars. anyone have facts on that?

 

[Herzog]

I do find it also ironic that the same people who are most opposed to higher pay also complain the most about social programs for low wage workers.

Here's the deal. We're not against higher wages, if you earn it. But don't expect to make a career out of flipping burgers. That's a STARTER job. You learn skills, move on and up. We really should start shaming people who flip burgers as a "career".

The main problem is laziness. People want the high pay with low effort. Life doesn't work that way.

I tell my kids that if they don't want to work for what they want and need to do a simple experiment. Move into the woods and live for "free". You will very quickly find out that water doesn't just show up and that food isn't in a nearby fridge. You have to work hard to survive, it's that basic. All these "xyz is a human right" people are just plain stupid.

 

[Hickey]

I also heard on the radio that the power grid couldn't actually even support only 10% of people going to electric cars. anyone have facts on that?

It will be interesting to see what happens in California over the next few years. They've banned generators recently. This is another hammer in the nail for an Owner/operator truck driver in California.

We haven't been able to idle trucks in Cali for several years, so people have been forced to find other solutions for staying warm or cool while they sleep at night. A small generator and a small AC unit works really well for a small investment. Meanwhile, I have a $12k Alternate Power Unit on my work truck that pumps out massive amounts of smoke and fumes while I sleep... But it has an official EPA sticker that says it's fine.

 

[Herzog]

Yawn inducing comeback.
We are all smart enough to know electricity needs to be generated (and that it is not so simple as to call electrics coal powered as some used to do) but my entire point was that electricity prices are far more stable than gas prices.
A factually correct statement that is irrelevant to the source of power used to generate electricity.

Just wait until more people start buying electric vehicles. That price point is going to change REALLY quick.

 

[jeeper]

I do find it also ironic that the same people who are most opposed to higher pay also complain the most about social programs for low wage workers.

This is where my personal life experience becomes very opinionated.

I have lived with, and have been the poorest of poor. Uphill in the snow bare foot both ways is a treat over skinning mink any day of the week. No hand outs for the white boy, especially as we weren't burdened with auto and cell phone payments. My wife and I pulled ourselves up with hard work, sacrifice, and determination. Went from VERY poor, to less poor within a handful of years, and then on to not poor within another handful. I paid for a new TV this year for the first time in my life (a whopping $300 on a 50") I even now subscribe to a single streaming service for $6/moth.
Many around me get PLENTY of government aid and handouts. They have car payments, cell phone payments, every streaming service available, live in small apartments with 4-5 adults and a couple small kids. They have expensive pets ($800 birds, etc) and eat like kings on all the food stamp money they get. At times they have quit jobs, or refused raises as they would result in an overall loss from the decline in handouts.

As a landlord I can go on for HOURS about hand outs and personal responsibility.

When it all boils down: mandates, minimum wage, handouts, programs, etc, do not change anything. They allow people to live in a false state of security, and prevent future growth. They cost you and me money to pay for, and benefit us none.. and I would argue hurt us as a society.

I will give you that there is the more rare situation when a person needs genuine, SHORT term assistance.. and the local churches can handle that 1000x's better than the government.

 

[Hickey]

This is where my personal life experience becomes very opinionated.

I have lived with, and have been the poorest of poor. Uphill in the snow bare foot both ways is a treat over skinning mink any day of the week. No hand outs for the white boy, especially as we weren't burdened with auto and cell phone payments. My wife and I pulled ourselves up with hard work, sacrifice, and determination. Went from VERY poor, to less poor within a handful of years, and then on to not poor within another handful. I paid for a new TV this year for the first time in my life (a whopping $300 on a 50")
Many around me get PLENTY of government aid and handouts. They have car payments, cell phone payments, every streaming service available, live in small apartments with 4-5 adults and a couple small kids. They have expensive pets ($800 birds, etc) and eat like kings on all the food stamp money they get. At times they have quite jobs, or refused raises as they would result in an overall loss from the decline in handouts.

As a landlord I can go on for HOURS about hand outs and personal responsibility.

When it all boils down: mandates, minimum wage, handouts, programs, etc, do not change anything. They allow people to live in a false state of security, and prevent future growth. They cost you and me money to pay for, and benefit us none.. and I would argue hurt us as a society.

I will give you that there is the more rare situation when a person needs genuine, SHORT term assistance.. and the local churches can handle that 1000x's better than the government.

I agree with this eleventy-billion percent.



But you're still wrong about the tint.

 

[N-Smooth]

Nah, you guys just got lucky or whatever excuse the people with bad decision-making skills are using these days.

It has always been interesting to me -especially when I didn't have money- that people around me in similar circumstances always had such nice stuff but constantly complained about being poor and had debt collectors calling for them. Now I have money for frivolous things and guess what, they still don't. I'm sure it's a coincidence.

 

[DAA]

I also heard on the radio that the power grid couldn't actually even support only 10% of people going to electric cars. anyone have facts on that?

I can't supply facts. My son could though. He's an electrical engineer with WECC. The grid and specifically grid reliability is what he does for a living. He decides how much to fine utility companies for gross negligence.

He's a card carrying liberal and devout greenie. But even he laughs out loud and says California can't keep the lights on without starting massive fires already. He finds the notion of all electric vehicles in California within the next fifty years complete fantasy.

- DAA

 

[Trate D]

Yawn inducing comeback.
We are all smart enough to know electricity needs to be generated (and that it is not so simple as to call electrics coal powered as some used to do) but my entire point was that electricity prices are far more stable than gas prices.
A factually correct statement that is irrelevant to the source of power used to generate electricity.

What do you think electric prices are going to do when that’s all that’s available?

What’s going to happen when there isn’t enough electricity to charge everyone cars?

Electric “Green” energy isn’t clean. It’s like saying you stopped smoking cause you started vaping.... It’s a bullshit cause to transfer the wealth of oil and coal to “Green” energy sources that are equally bad for the environment. All the while forcing you to use electric by getting rid of your fossil fuel burner.

 

[TRD270]

Edit: Moving my soap box rant to appropriate thread

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I can't supply facts. My son could though. He's an electrical engineer with WECC. The grid and specifically grid reliability is what he does for a living. He decides how much to fine utility companies for gross negligence.

He's a card carrying liberal and devout greenie. But even he laughs out loud and says California can't keep the lights on without starting massive fires already. He finds the notion of all electric vehicles in California within the next fifty years complete fantasy.

- DAA

Or Texas... that can't keep the AC on in the summer:

Electric grid operator asks Texans to stop blasting AC as unplanned outages and heat collide | CNN

Amid an intense Texas heat wave, ERCOT said Monday that peak power usage this week could break its June record.

www.cnn.com

Or keep generating power in the winter:

2021 Texas power crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just imagine if even 10% of their populations switched in the next few years. What does that do to an already crippled system?

Utah certainly isn't immune: Sandy, St George and many others have warned they can't keep up with current demand in summer:

St. George issues 'red alert' for power supply, residents could face blackouts

The City of St. George said Thursday with high demand for power, for the first time ever, there may not be enough to go around. The city issued a "red alert" for residents in St. George and surrounding areas, indicating that if power isn't conserved Thursday, there could be limited resources...

kutv.com

A single EV adds ~30% to a homes typical power consumption. Cheap cost/mile, but our system will need massively $$$ upgrades to meet demand.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I spent a few days out on the trail and around the campfire with a gentleman that is the US lead of future EV product planning for a major auto manufacture I'm often involved with. He mentioned our lack of charging abilities as a major reason said manufacture has been slow to adopt. It works OK for frankly boutique manufactures with small product array and much lower annual sales volume here in the US and abroad. It's a no brainer they are going to adopt EV technology more and more just as every manufacture is... but when the .gov starts losing billions a year in fuel taxes and power companies start having to invest real money in massive upgrades... it will cost the consumer. Interestingly they are also waiting for the .gov to get involved in universal charging code, think USB-C vs lighting cables. Every school, grocery store, etc can't have 10x charge stations to support proprietary plug-ins and charge technology from each manufacture.

Hell, my house only had 60A? service. I don't even know if it could support charging an EV without burning the place to the ground (again). Many of my neighbors still have that old 60A service, we upgraded to 200A when I built my shop. Now I can run the microwave and a vacuum at the same time!

 

[jeeper]

I spent a few days out on the trail and around the campfire with a gentleman that is the US lead of future EV product planning for a major auto manufacture I'm often involved with. He mentioned our lack of charging abilities as a major reason said manufacture has been slow to adopt. It works OK for frankly boutique manufactures with small product array and much lower annual sales volume here in the US and abroad. It's a no brainer they are going to adopt EV technology more and more just as every manufacture is... but when the .gov starts losing billions a year in fuel taxes and power companies start having to invest real money in massive upgrades... it will cost the consumer. Interestingly they are also waiting for the .gov to get involved in universal charging code, think USB-C vs lighting cables. Every school, grocery store, etc can't have 10x charge stations to support proprietary plug-ins and charge technology from each manufacture.

Hell, my house only had 60A? service. I don't even know if it could support charging an EV without burning the place to the ground (again). Many of my neighbors still have that old 60A service, we upgraded to 200A when I built my shop. Now I can run the microwave and a vacuum at the same time!

Great info, as usual. Thanks for the insight.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Think about this. $.59/gal tax at the pump here in Utah. That's between Federal and State. Say the average person drives 15,000 miles annually with a vehicle getting 20mpg (totally from the hip but relatively reasonable) so that is 750 gallons of fuel purchased annually by said car owner/driver. With current taxes, that is ~$442/vehicle paid into the State and Federal taxes which go largely to road construction, maintenance/repair. 2.3 million cars in Utah alone. If 10% were to phase into EV, that is $102M. The state alone would be down $55M/year. (someone check my math)

~300 million registered vehicles in the US... you can finish the math. Transportation infrastructure money will need a new source as EV's take more market share. They will either tax EV's higher like some state's are already doing OR start tracking and doing payment/mile like other states are doing.

Oregon for example is charging 1.9 cents/mile for EV's. Which is very similar to the State only gas tax they would pay at the pump. More and more state's doing this and more and more EV's will certainly force the Fed to start tracking and charging. Ironically the Fed has been doing EV vehicle tax credits and the current Fed administraion is looking to bump that higher. So less gas tax AND less income tax to the gov. Where will that $$$ gap be filled? Much higher electric costs? Much higher gas tax for those still running on hydrocarbons? State and federal tracking per mile?

 

[Herzog]

Think about this. $.59/gal tax at the pump here in Utah. That's between Federal and State. Say the average person drives 15,000 miles annually with a vehicle getting 20mpg (totally from the hip but relatively reasonable) so that is 750 gallons of fuel purchased annually by said car owner/driver. With current taxes, that is ~$442/vehicle paid into the State and Federal taxes which go largely to road construction, maintenance/repair. 2.3 million cars in Utah alone. If 10% were to phase into EV, that is $102M. The state alone would be down $55M/year. (someone check my math)

~300 million registered vehicles in the US... you can finish the math. Transportation infrastructure money will need a new source as EV's take more market share. They will either tax EV's higher like some state's are already doing OR start tracking and doing payment/mile like other states are doing.

Oregon for example is charging 1.9 cents/mile for EV's. Which is very similar to the State only gas tax they would pay at the pump. More and more state's doing this and more and more EV's will certainly force the Fed to start tracking and charging. Ironically the Fed has been doing EV vehicle tax credits and the current Fed administraion is looking to bump that higher. So less gas tax AND less income tax to the gov. Where will that $$$ gap be filled? Much higher electric costs? Much higher gas tax for those still running on hydrocarbons? State and federal tracking per mile?

The tracking alone gives me pause…