Your're going to hate me...

DorkAlert

Registered User
Location
SLC, Utah
Please don't yell at me. I don't want to re-hash the same hashed out arguments about Utah lift laws or complain about non-compliance/compliance treatment. I am looking for clarification.

This is not an argument about mud flaps. I see that clearly written in the traffic code and the "Official Vehicle Safety Manual Inspection Manual 2009-10" by the Utah Department of Safety. This is about fender width.

I found what I believe to be an inconsistency in accordance to Utah traffic code as currently legislated.

The code says this,"(2) If the wheel track is increased beyond the O.E.M. specification, the top 50% of the tires shall be covered by the original fenders, by rubber, or other flexible fender extenders under any loading condition. "
(http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE41/htm/41_06a163100.htm)

The Department of Safety manual tells inspection stations to reject if the ,"Tire tread is not fully covered by existing fenders or fender extenders."

Fine. A little confusing. I called the UHP for sincere clarification. The first person I spoke to didn't know and would have to call me back. Two hours later I got a phone call by the same person who didn't answer the question but instead tried to tell me that the UHP can alter existing traffic code. (I am assuming that the legislature still would have to vote on it) Fine, I asked when was the piece of legislation introduced to change the code as the current stated in the manual. She passed me on to a UHP officer who tried to interpret the code but he didn't have it in front of him so we just went in circles. I received little help there. My hope is that there is someone reading this that can explain this away.

The UHP is currently abiding by their manual not the legislated code. That may pose a constitutional power problem according to the Utah constitution. As far as I know, and this is what I need help with, the UHP does not have legislative authority to write and enforce their own code without passing it through the the legislature, or do they?

I really don't know. Help Please.
 

bryson

RME Resident Ninja
Supporting Member
Location
West Jordan
You'll have absolutely no luck trying to change the laws/codes... just cover 'em up and get on with it.

Entire width of tire must be covered with orig. fender or fender flares/extensions. Orig. body or mud flap must cover entire height of tire from the top down to the axle centerline. Mud flaps only apply to rear tires, flares apply to all 4.

Not too confusing.
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
Where are you seeing an inconsistency? Code mandates that the TOP 50% of the tire, and that would have to be "as viewed from the side", btw, while the manual states that the tread must be covered by the tire. While that's maybe incompletely written, common sense would dictate that they are basically saying "no tread sticking out".

That being the case, the two things are in agreement, one is just more specific in the details. No tread sticking out past the fenders or flares, mudflaps to cover any exposed tread above the centerline of the tire.

I doubt legislation is needed or will be introduced to clarify what appears to be pretty clear to me. *shrug
 
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DorkAlert

Registered User
Location
SLC, Utah
You'll have absolutely no luck trying to change the laws/codes... just cover 'em up and get on with it.

Entire width of tire must be covered with orig. fender or fender flares/extensions. Orig. body or mud flap must cover entire height of tire from the top down to the axle centerline. Mud flaps only apply to rear tires, flares apply to all 4.

Not too confusing.

Like I said this is not an argument for or against compliance only the observation of what I thought looked like an inconsistency between enforcement and legislation.
 

STAG

Well-Known Member
x2 on what they said, and besides even if there is a variance in what your thinking, and you do get it to pass only covering half the tread width of the tire, you will get pulled over every day by a cop who sees too much tire sticking out. I think you are confusing "top 50%" of the tire as tread width, no the mean every bit of tire that is above your axle center line...

In this pic, the red is dictating what the law requires to be covered, (full tread width, and top half of the tire) and the green line is half of the wheel.

weld9.png
 

DorkAlert

Registered User
Location
SLC, Utah
Where are you seeing an inconsistency? Code mandates that the TOP 50% of the tire, and that would have to be "as viewed from the side", btw, while the manual states that the tread must be covered by the tire. While that's maybe incompletely written, common sense would dictate that they are basically saying "no tread sticking out".

That being the case, the two things are in agreement, one is just more specific in the details. No tread sticking out past the fenders or flares, mudflaps to cover any exposed tread above the centerline of the tire.

I think that is what the UHP Officer was trying to explain to me but I was too stuck in my paradigm to understand.

I doubt legislation is needed or will be introduced to clarify what appears to be pretty clear to me. *shrug

I guess I was confused about the TOP part. I just interpreted the Top 50% of the tire to mean the top half as viewed from the top not the side when referring to fender flares.. Neither document specifies which direction you should be looking at the tire. I guess I missed the mark. Thanks anyway.
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
That's a great illustration-- much more concise than my post. :D Thank you!

That is exactly what I read the code and the manual to mean.
 

DorkAlert

Registered User
Location
SLC, Utah
x2 on what they said, and besides even if there is a variance in what your thinking, and you do get it to pass only covering half the tread width of the tire, you will get pulled over every day by a cop who sees too much tire sticking out. I think you are confusing "top 50%" of the tire as tread width, no the mean every bit of tire that is above your axle center line...

In this pic, the red is dictating what the law requires to be covered, (full tread width, and top half of the tire) and the green line is half of the wheel.

weld9.png

Yeah..thanks for the picture...I more of a visual person anyway...
 

STAG

Well-Known Member
Wanna hear somethin kinda stupid? When my dad went in to get his truck inspected, they failed his truck due to mudflaps. Well they said he only needed a mudflap on the drivers side, because the passenger side had the exhaust pipe "covering the center line of the axle"... I'll tell ya what I really doubt that that exhaust is going to stop any rocks/mud..

weld10.png
 

4554x4

always modifing something
Location
Sandy Utah
Wanna hear somethin kinda stupid? When my dad went in to get his truck inspected, they failed his truck due to mudflaps. Well they said he only needed a mudflap on the drivers side, because the passenger side had the exhaust pipe "covering the center line of the axle"... I'll tell ya what I really doubt that that exhaust is going to stop any rocks/mud..

weld10.png

Thats cool. Where did he get the inspection? I have dual pipes!
 

turbohaulic

I don't know it just is!
Location
Hyde Park, UT
I don't know about anywhere else but its gettin to be harder and harder to find ppl up north to let even little things slide on inspections and especially the cops. I'm glad we have inspections so ppl can't do scary lifts and messed up steering stuff but on some things its kinda ridiculous:rolleyes:
 

RockMonkey

Suddenly Enthusiastic
I don't know about anywhere else but its gettin to be harder and harder to find ppl up north to let even little things slide on inspections and especially the cops. I'm glad we have inspections so ppl can't do scary lifts and messed up steering stuff but on some things its kinda ridiculous:rolleyes:

They're not looking for scary suspension or messed up steering though. They're only looking at a few obvious things, like fenders and flaps.
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
I got failed for a 1/8" crack in my exhaust pipe.. over the rear axle. Really?

Still, so sayeth the law. The UHP and their inspection sticklers can take the full weight of the blame on this one as far as I'm concerned. It's a little nit-picky lately.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
As far as the issue of legislative bill vs UHP manual, what they do is common and really they way the process is meant to go. The legislature does not (thankfully) attempt to put into statute every little detail. The basic out-line is in the legislation and the responsible agency or board writes and implements the details via the "rules" process.

In most all cases, this gets those with the knowledge and expertise involved in the actual implentation of the law. It is a good system, in my opinion.
 
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