2010 rules

[Craig S]

2010 RULES MOVED TO THE INFO PAGE

2010 Old School Rules posted for comments.

 

[RockMonkey]

2010 Old School Rules posted for comments.

The 3" max wheelbase change rule for the street stock class seems pretty restrictive. That's going to bump a lot of rigs that would otherwise qualify for street stock up into Legends, where they're not likely to be competitive, and will scare them off.

including me

 

[I Lean]

including me

That's right. Punk. You think you can just enter into whatever class you want, and stomp all over some guy's 4runner that happens to be in that class?

 

[BCGPER]

No worries, his coilovers would do that anyway....

Even if he did make Street, you know he's gonna roll and total his junk on the first run anyway.

 

[RockMonkey]

No worries, his coilovers would do that anyway....

Even if he did make Street, you know he's gonna roll and total his junk on the first run anyway.

Nope, coilovers just cost a 10 point penalty. Maybe a penalty for each inch over the 3" max change?

 

[RockMonkey]

That's right. Punk. You think you can just enter into whatever class you want, and stomp all over some guy's 4runner that happens to be in that class?

Was hoping to...

 

[BCGPER]

Seems to be a contradiction in the rules:

1.7a Stock configuration suspension designs required. Example: leaf from factory, leaf for competition, coil/leaf from factory,
coil/leaf for competition, etc.. Double shackle, air shocks or coil over systems are allowed with a 10 point penalty (+10).

I'll have to look into that further. Coil overs and links are no where near your factory setup, and shouldn't be allowed in Street. Your thoughts Craig?

Nope, coilovers just cost a 10 point penalty. Maybe a penalty for each inch over the 3" max change?

 

[RockMonkey]

Seems to be a contradiction in the rules:

1.7a Stock configuration suspension designs required. Example: leaf from factory, leaf for competition, coil/leaf from factory,
coil/leaf for competition, etc.. Double shackle, air shocks or coil over systems are allowed with a 10 point penalty (+10).

I'll have to look into that further. Coil overs and links are no where near your factory setup, and shouldn't be allowed in Street. Your thoughts Craig?

Long arms and well-designed custom link suspensions are no where near the crappy short arms that come on TJs, but they're allowed. I would think leaf springs are comparable in function to factory rear TJ geometry. If completely custom links are legal on a rig that had any crappy link system from the factory, I'd think it would be allowed on a rig that came with leafs from the factory. A point penalty may be appropriate in both cases.

 

[1995zj]

The 3" max wheelbase change rule for the street stock class seems pretty restrictive. That's going to bump a lot of rigs that would otherwise qualify for street stock up into Legends, where they're not likely to be competitive, and will scare them off.

including me

I was going to say the same thing as I'm only 4"-5" over stock. But then again I'll be full-hydro, so I guess I've got no choice

 

[Craig S]

The wheel base +- 3". I think that Werock uses +-2.5". I know that Prorock does. I just have problems with fractions. 10 points/inch might be a way to go here.

Coil over suspension. A lot of vendors make coil over kits for 4x4 vehicles and I see a lot of them on trail rigs and street rigs. I think that the wheel base rule will keep most of the real long rigs with coils or air shocks in Legend class. Does the penalty need to go up or just eliminate the coil over rule for stock?

 

[BCGPER]

I think the penalty needs to be increased substantially if coil overs are allowed. 10 points will probably be made up on the first run, compared to say a stockish Toyota on leafs. You just know that poor guy is taking some cones. Not to mention, those coilovers probably cost as much as that guy has into his Toyota total. I think if we head this way, we're going to price the stockish trucks right out of the competition.

I really hate to see the street stock class move away from where it was intended. It was a class to include the average trail rig, one that probably also sees as much hiway use as well as offroad. Something the average Joe could have put together in his garage.

Oh, and I also agree with Braden on the long arm deal. They shouldn't be allowed in stock. I think in my case, running the long arm, I have a definate advantage over a short arm kit. And, if nothing else, the frame has been modified to allow the long arm kit to be installed in the first place. Maybe it needs to be added that all arms must use factory mounting points?

 

[Bear T]

Something that I know we had confusion on last year was a pickup with a flat bed still being allowed in the stock class. Any ideas?

 

[1995zj]

Something that I know we had confusion on last year was a pickup with a flat bed still being allowed in the stock class. Any ideas?

This was my same question. Only about the Legends Class. My brother would be competing in the Legends class in his Toyota Hilux, but he has removed the bed and built a flat-bed now. I noticed this

2.3 Body-Body panels are required. Body panels must closely match the original factory configuration of the vehicle.

So would it have to have a bed on it then to compete in the Legends Class or does this bump him into Unlimited?

 

[Craig S]

I think the penalty needs to be increased substantially if coil overs are allowed. 10 points will probably be made up on the first run, compared to say a stockish Toyota on leafs. You just know that poor guy is taking some cones. Not to mention, those coilovers probably cost as much as that guy has into his Toyota total. I think if we head this way, we're going to price the stockish trucks right out of the competition.

I really hate to see the street stock class move away from where it was intended. It was a class to include the average trail rig, one that probably also sees as much hiway use as well as offroad. Something the average Joe could have put together in his garage.

Oh, and I also agree with Braden on the long arm deal. They shouldn't be allowed in stock. I think in my case, running the long arm, I have a definate advantage over a short arm kit. And, if nothing else, the frame has been modified to allow the long arm kit to be installed in the first place. Maybe it needs to be added that all arms must use factory mounting points?

This is a difficult issue because there are a lot of vehicles (mostly TJs) with lifts and coilovers that are street legal. Maybe we bump the coilover penalty a bit to say 15 or 20 points. Most events are pretty close and 15 or 20 points is a pretty good handycap.

 

[Craig S]

This was my same question. Only about the Legends Class. My brother would be competing in the Legends class in his Toyota Hilux, but he has removed the bed and built a flat-bed now. I noticed this



So would it have to have a bed on it then to compete in the Legends Class or does this bump him into Unlimited?

You guys need to help me with this here. I thought the pickup was OK in stock with the flat bed. It certainly didn't give him an advantage.

 

[BCGPER]

I know it's probably too late now, but maybe most of these issues could be taken care of by having something like a "superstock" class? That might give something like Braden's XJ a place to fit in, and still allow the lesser built vehicles to be competitive amung similar rigs. It might also be a good place to stick the rigs that have previously had to run the legends class just because they're running a 38" tire, or a flatbed, or some other minor issue.

Also, if you could clarify for me because I'm easily confused. Braden would be stuck running the legend class because an XJ should have rear leafs, but his front coilovers would be fine for stock class, correct?

This is a difficult issue because there are a lot of vehicles (mostly TJs) with lifts and coilovers that are street legal. Maybe we bump the coilover penalty a bit to say 15 or 20 points. Most events are pretty close and 15 or 20 points is a pretty good handycap.

 

[spurren2]

There is no real advantage to a flat bed if rule 1.4a is met.
There is no real advantage to coillovers on a rig as long as it is a stock rerplacement like the black diamond kit where the coilovers are 10-12". When you get into the 14 inch and up coilovers and air shocks along with 30+ inch links then you are way beyond stock and should be moved to legend class.
I think the legend class should be full bodied, stock frame, modified rigs.
There will always be a rig that is built alittle better than your own and that is where the driver and spotter comes in. I have seen quite often the underdog suprise everyone in a lesser built rig.

 

[Bear T]

I personally don't see any advantage to a flat bed, other then maybe not hanging up on a piece of sheet metal.

Guess it doesn't matter anymore, I forgot I have to run legends anyway with the 38's. And little brother is going to 38's if he ever finishes the lift. Oh well.

I like the idea of a super stock class. but really thats what the legend class is. I agree that legends should be mostly full bodied, heavily modified rigs. But I think that those with tube chassis should be made to run in the unlimiteds. I personally don't think that a TJ grill is enough to keep you in the legends class.

 

[RockMonkey]

I think a flat bedded rig potentially has a huge advantage over a full-bodied rig. The weight (especially up high where it matters most) difference between a simple flat bed and a full bodied (full glass) rig could be a huge advantage. Also the potential to improve breakover and departure angles could be a big advantage.

I'm not saying flat beds should be banned from the class, but it could be an advantage on the same order as a > 3" wheelbase change, or a suspension design change. Besides, I seen link suspensions that work worse than an average leaf spring suspension more often than not.

It seems to me the class should focus more on retaining the full body shape and function (length, width, glass) rather than strictly limiting chassis changes.

 

[Craig S]

I know it's probably too late now, but maybe most of these issues could be taken care of by having something like a "superstock" class? That might give something like Braden's XJ a place to fit in, and still allow the lesser built vehicles to be competitive amung similar rigs. It might also be a good place to stick the rigs that have previously had to run the legends class just because they're running a 38" tire, or a flatbed, or some other minor issue.

Also, if you could clarify for me because I'm easily confused. Braden would be stuck running the legend class because an XJ should have rear leafs, but his front coilovers would be fine for stock class, correct?

I have looked at Bradens rig briefly. It's pretty nice. The suspension is trick and I don't know where his wheel base is or if it is street legal. Without looking it over closer and knowing those two things it's hard to make a call.