7 trails in 5 days, too much for our first time to Moab?

XJ Jay

Member
Hello all, my group has planned a trip down from Canada this fall, i purchased the Charles Wells guide book over a year ago, and was put in charge of trail selection for the group of daily drivers, which range from my timid XJ on 33s with 5" of lift, long arms and lockers up to a locked up H1. I selected trails based on the book, traildamage.com and this site that i felt suited out rigs and provided some scenic value as well, but am i trying to cram to much Moab in just 5days? Trails in order are.......

Rose Garden Hill and Top of the World
Fins n things and do Gold Bar Rim in the eve?
Poison Spider Mesa and maybe do Gold Bar Rim? i know Golden Spike is in between PSM and GBR, but i think is outta out league
Steel Bender
Hells Revenge

Any and all input is appreciated.
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
PSM, Gold Bar, and Golden Spike can be done in one long day. It's the only way I'd do them. Other wise I would just do PSM. Those three trails are pretty similar. So I'd try to pick trails that are different. Maybe Kain Creek?
 

jeeper

I live my life 1 dumpster at a time
Location
So Jo, Ut
i know Golden Spike is in between PSM and GBR, but i think is outta out league

We did i in 3 jeeps, 2 on 33's, rear lockers. One bone stock. Really not that bad.. Bit it is a long day with all three. take plenty of water an snacks

If you are afraid of golden spike than I think steel bender would be a No no.. but I have not done it so I can't say
 
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mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
.......
Rose Garden Hill and Top of the World
Fins n things and do Gold Bar Rim in the eve?
Poison Spider Mesa and maybe do Gold Bar Rim? i know Golden Spike is in between PSM and GBR, but i think is outta out league
Steel Bender
Hells Revenge

Any and all input is appreciated.

If you're traveling from that far, I'd try to do as many trails as possible and rest when you get home. :D

Rose Garden Hill and Top of the World is a pretty long day. Nothing wrong with that as it's got great views and some technical spots. Mostly a scenic trail in my opinion. I've only run the trail once and probably wouldn't do it again.

Fins and Gold Bar are geographically far apart. I would do Fins on the same day as you do Hells Revenge. Fins can be somewhat hard to follow and stay on the trail but there are some fun spots on that trail for sure.

As previously mentioned, Poison Spider and Gold Bar are connected by Golden Spike. I don't know that you'd have trouble with Golden Spike with your locked XJ. The H1? Unknown (they are BIG, HEAVY pigs of vehicles and are somewhat difficult to find parts for in Moab-Hope they have fun, though)

I've never run Steel Bender so no comments there. From what I've heard it sounds like a 4-5 hour trail? It might be good to do that as a warm-up trail on the first day or as a trail that you run before you leave?

Metal Masher is a fun trail and I'd be surprised if you're not setup for that one. It's out there by Gold Bar Rim and worth the trip, IMHO.

I've put my version of your trip in your format below.

Rose Garden Hill-Top of the World
Hells Revenge-Fins & Things
Golden Spike (Poison Spider-Golden Spike-Gold Bar)---that's about an 8-12 hour trail under normal situations/groups
If you don't do Golden Spike, I'd break up the Poison Spider-Gold Bar combo as they are both pretty good loops.
Maybe a cruise through Arches Nat. Park or something for a day. It's worth seeing that stuff as it's incredibly unique.

.... take plenty of water an snacks

...

This is probably some of the best advice you can get
 
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sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
It sounds like I'm the exception. I get burnt out from too much wheeling in too much time. I like to shake it up with hikes and scenic drives/swimming, etc. That would be way too much for me, but it's always easier to slim down your list of trails as you get there. Play it by ear. If you're getting burnt out, cut back a bit. If you can't get enough, keep on going to the next trail.
 

Spork

Tin Foil Hat Equipped
I'm with mbryson, I think fins-n-things and Gold bar are a lot for a day. I think Metal Masher is a great trail and it's on the way to Gold Bar Rim if you want to do 2 trails that day. One thing about Metal masher is there are a couple obstacles where the H1's width would be interesting. It might leave marks on both sides of the obstacle if it could squeeze through. Gemini bridges and Bull canyon are right there also and are really pretty short if you had time they are also pretty mild.

Steel Bender I would plan on all day, it can be shorter if you don't run the loop. There is a bypass for some of the tough obstacles like Dragon's tail. I don't think I've ever got off Steel Bender in less than 6 hours (usually closer to 8).
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wydaho
Definitely add Metal Masher to your list, it can be challenging (as much as you want) and it's very scenic. Most of the obstacles are optional... the only ones that would force you to go through are Mirror Gulch and the climbs directly afterword. Good spotting will get you through the climbs. If you end up getting off Metal Masher early, head over to Gold Bar (or vise-versa).
 

Kevin B.

Not often wrong. Never quite right.
Moderator
Location
Stinkwater
The folks on Trail-Damage.com seem to think that Rose Garden Hill got a lot tougher over the winter. Last time I looked they had it rated a 9 out of 10. I've never driven it so I don't know, just thought I'd throw that out there.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
The folks on Trail-Damage.com seem to think that Rose Garden Hill got a lot tougher over the winter. Last time I looked they had it rated a 9 out of 10. I've never driven it so I don't know, just thought I'd throw that out there.


So it's Pritchett Canyon level? Sounds like I should check it out again?
 

XJ Jay

Member
Fins and Gold Bar are geographically far apart. I would do Fins on the same day as you do Hells Revenge. Fins can be somewhat hard to follow and stay on the trail but there are some fun spots on that trail for sure.

As previously mentioned, Poison Spider and Gold Bar are connected by Golden Spike. I don't know that you'd have trouble with Golden Spike with your locked XJ. The H1? Unknown (they are BIG, HEAVY pigs of vehicles and are somewhat difficult to find parts for in Moab-Hope they have fun, though)

Metal Masher is a fun trail and I'd be surprised if you're not setup for that one. It's out there by Gold Bar Rim and worth the trip, IMHO.

The owner of the H1 will be over prepared because it is such a rare vehicle to find parts for, my trail selection was based on both out vehicles, mine being the smallest and his being over size. I think will see what has become of Rose Garden Hill, see if it really should be ranked so high, so it and Top of the World i think should stay? I think for now will leave Gold Bar Rim as an optional run if time permits, perhaps Steel Bender will be on the short side and we can do Gold Bar in the early eve. I think Hells and Fins may make for too long of a day, I figure 8 hours of wheeling should be the limit per day, so id like to keep them separate, and i think Poison Spider Mesa is a must, so it aint going any where. Not sure why i waited 3 months away from our trip to ask opinions on our trails, but i guess theres ample time to change em if need.

Im dead set on Fins, Hells and Poison, Gold is optional, Id like to do Top for its scenery and combine Rose Garden for its challenge, it was originally suppose to be just Top on our first day to ease us into wheeling, but i can not resist adding Rose Garden Hill. Is there a better trail that has epic look outs and has a similar level of difficulty as these two trails? Cliff Hanger etc????

I would also like to do Steel Bender as it is a more difficult trail and shouldnt be a struggle for the H1 as Metal Masher might, but again am open to suggestions of another trail it worth while.

thanks again, keep this thread going
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I know many will disagree with me, but I would steer you away from steelbender. It has a cool name and it sounds cool on paper. It even has some cool spots. But these spots aren't fun enough to justify the boring, long sections between these obstacles. The trail takes way too long and it's not super scenic. I don't plan on doing that trail again anytime soon.

I agree with turning poison spiders onto a golden spike run (poison spider to golden spike to gold bar rim.) Golden spike is my favorite trail by a long shot. It feels like there's an obstacle le every 100 feet. I love that series of trails.

I also agree with doing fins n things and hells in the same day. They're both low-stress trails that don't leave you feeling exhausted after you run them.

For more scenic trails, I find Gemini bridges trail to be boring. It's kinda cool to walk out near the arch, but its way cooler to drive Bull canyon and view it from the bottom. The hike from the bottom of Bull canyon is about 5 min and well worth it.

My.other favorite scenic trail is Long canyon. Super scenic and easy to drive. Also, driving the paved loop at Canyonlands Island in the Sky is a must-do if you're not from the area. Another cool but semi-long scenic route is from Schaeffer switcgbacks all the way to Potash road. Easy trail, and you may be the only ones put there. It feels remote even though it's not. Very peaceful and scenic. I think we took about 4 hours to do that one.

I hope that helps.
 
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mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
I'm the opposite of Steve re: Golden Spike. I really like Rusty Nail as it takes you in to the cool spots of Golden Spike and let's you avoid a couple hours of ledges that just slow you down. Rusty Nail probably isn't H1 freindly and I think I've seen
more broken D44 axle joints and shattered d35 axles on that trail than anywhere else in Moab? Not recommended for what it sounds like your group will be.

We do all have our opinions. It sounds like you've done a bit of research and have a good idea of what you want to do. I say do your trip and have as much fun as you can. It's going to be great! Moab trails are under the gun as much as anywhere so please stay on the established trail as much as possible (I'm sure you will) and follow tread lightly principles out there. Sounds like you're heading down fairly soon? It'll be pretty hot. I know it's a dry heat, but be prepared for it (sunscreen, food and LOTS of water).
 

XJ Jay

Member
I agree with turning poison spiders onto a golden spike run (poison spider to golden spike to gold bar rim.) Golden spike is my favorite trail by a long shot. It feels like there's an obstacle le every 100 feet. I love that series of trails.

I also agree with doing fins n things and hells in the same day. They're both low-stress trails that don't leave you feeling exhausted after you run them.

I think Golden Spike might be pushing our group for out first time out, unless we go with the group of buggies that are going with as well, i think it will be just to much to wheel and to keep up with buggies on 42s and 49s with rockwells and big power.

if we manage to complete Fins in a timely fashion its certainly a possibility to do Hells, from what i gathered its fairly tame with a few tough obstacles but it being our 2nd day wheeling im sure will still being in the picture taking phase and it may run longer then expected.

I'm the opposite of Steve re: Golden Spike. I really like Rusty Nail as it takes you in to the cool spots of Golden Spike and let's you avoid a couple hours of ledges that just slow you down. Rusty Nail probably isn't H1 freindly and I think I've seen
more broken D44 axle joints and shattered d35 axles on that trail than anywhere else in Moab? Not recommended for what it sounds like your group will be.

We do all have our opinions. It sounds like you've done a bit of research and have a good idea of what you want to do. I say do your trip and have as much fun as you can. It's going to be great! Moab trails are under the gun as much as anywhere so please stay on the established trail as much as possible (I'm sure you will) and follow tread lightly principles out there. Sounds like you're heading down fairly soon? It'll be pretty hot. I know it's a dry heat, but be prepared for it (sunscreen, food and LOTS of water).

Yeah must be H1 friendly, lucky for us theres no D35s in our group but lots of D44s spinning 35s. Some of use will be packing a few axles and front drive shafts(ok prob me and the H1 guy) for trail spares. Im keeping my stock front axles as a engineered weak point to protect my HP D30, and 2 front drive shafts in case i twist my front or rear into a pretzel.

We are a very respectful bunch of guys, we have no intentions on ruining it for every one else, locally we leave with more then what we brought on the trail, picking up after others to preserve are only good wheeling trail. Our trip is in late October so im hoping the temp should be in the low to mid 70s, but lots of food and water will be on hand on our trips. Also despite being way up north from most of you guys it gets pretty hot and humid up here, typical summer temps are 90* and a humidex of 100*, regardless we will be prepared for what every weather Moab throws at us, its the trails that we need to prep for!

So now do we throw in a wild card in the event we tackle all we set out to do?
 
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mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
October should be perfect. You could run into some snow even? That's a great time to go down there, though. You might even get some local tour guides at that time of year? I hope I didn't infer that you would be disrespectful to the trails. The fact you're on a "foreign" bulletin board says that you're trying to get some solid information so you can have a good experience. Seems like you're a responsible user for sure? Some users are quite respectful of their local trails, but their local trails are 60' wide or something. I think of ours as 15' wide and try to stay in the traditional trail path (tough to do without knowing what that is).

D44's and 35" tires should be OK for most things. I'd imagine you could run almost ANY Moab trail with those but you should be prepared for breakage if you're stock shafts/joints. Alloy stuff is actually pretty tough and survives pretty well esp. with 35" tires. I'm not sure I'd run some of the BFE trails (there's a few I'm not interested in seeing my rig on but it's fun to watch other people :D) with a stockish D44 front (some trails my one ton "Jeep" avoid as I'm a puss and don't want to work on my Jeep, just drive it). I've never run a D44 front but ran the 297/760 joints in my 4 or 5 D30s in my old XJ 35" MTRs. I did OK with snap rings, 760 joints and stock TJ takeouts with a moderate driving style. The shafts would last about 20-25 trail days? With the clips, 297 joints and stock shafts I'd only get about 10-12 trail days out of a shaft/joint combo. Welding the caps worked OK and added a few extra days to a set of shafts, I just didn't dare run the welded caps on my daily driver XJ. I don't see much wrong with a D44 rear at all as long as you know it's source vehicle in case you do break a shaft (hopefully it's a common TJ, XJ, MJ size as I've had acquaintances have a hell of a time finding a Waggy or early CJ D44 shaft in a timely manner)

If you tackle everything, there's nothing wrong with a relaxing day watching other peeps break their junk out at BFE or heading into Arches Nat. Park, Dead Horse Point, the dinosaur tracks north of Arches, a cruise up the highway along the Colorado River or something similar. There are literally thousands of attractions around the area. The more places I go, the more places I want to check out. You'd think the list would be getting smaller?

Pickle and Mashed Potato are pretty interesting trails and scenic at the same time. There might be a couple spots on Pickle that are not H1 friendly (I'm sure some badass H1 driver has tried and I bet there are pics somewhere? I'd assume there would be some body damage but I've not spent any time with H1 guys anywhere due to mostly their attitudes. I'd be interested to see the rigs in some spots, but don't want any part of trying to recover a wedged 8-10K lb rig on some trails ;) ) but I think Mashed Potato would be totally fine for an H1 and is pretty cool.

Cliff Hanger and Metal Masher are closer to town and have "overlook" type views. Moab Rim is a worthy trail and looks out over Moab itself. Not a long trail either if you just bust up to the overlook and turn around. Cherokeester is correct below that Top of the World and Rose Garden Hill are not that popular as they are away from town and not heavily traveled. Moab Rim's a good evening or after dinner trail. :D

Behind the Rocks is somewhere I've seen H1's. I didn't stick around to see how/if they got through the trail, though. I think "Hummer Hill" is out that way? Fun trail with some good obstacles. This site has a TON of pics in the Trip Reports section for various EJS events. My site has a ton of pics and incredibly interesting narrative of some of the trails (www.marbryson.com).
 
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Cherokeester

Registered User
Location
Wellsville Utah
Do not do Top of the World and Rose Garden Hill the first day. They are WAY out there distance wise and very remote. If you have trouble then you will be in bad shape. Do Fins and Hells Revenge the first day as they are much closer to town and a great introduction to Moab and the slick rock. There will be a constant parade of rigs and they can help you if need be.
 

DaveB

Long Jeep Fan
Location
Holladay, Utah
Top of the world and Rose garden have gotten rougher in the last couple of years. We did Top of the world this year and it is much rougher due to rains washing away the dirt and leaving rocks. I enjoyed the ride but some in our group didn't because it was so rough, not all that technically difficult just rough. Here are some shots to give you an idea what I mean. The views are very good at the top. The first and last photo are Top of the World and the rest are Rose Garden.
 

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thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
If your doing PSM and GBR you might as well do the spike, it's an easy trail, and if you keep a good pace it's a six hour trail with no problem.... If it were me id run it spider through to gold bar and then pop out and do metal masher.. Some people go to Moab and spend more time in town then on the trail, I don't get that mentality... You could run those four in one day no problem and not even push it for time, just get out of bed before noon. I wouldnt even go to Moab without running those four trails.

Steel bender is not my favorite trail, I like the end and will usually run it through to the dragons tail and turn around, that's good for a few hours but I would chose several other trails over it.

Ive never run rose garden or top of the world..never appealed to me.

Fins and things 2 hours for the trail and hells revenge 2 hours.. For me that's taking my time, I just drive it through tho... I'm not on to sit and take pictures of every last rock I drive over.

I would put your list for me as 2.5 days, 3 if I screwed around.. I drive a samurai on 30" tires, you will be fine with you rigs. You should hook up with someone who knows the area and enjoy a few more trails.

I would recommend Behind the Rocks for sure and Pritchett canyon (unless it's a wet month) if its wet it can be nasty..

Also how could you go to Moab without doing Moab rim?

You can get the town atmosphere without leaving Canada, but the trails are epic for most and definitely worth spending the energy out on them. If you have driving experience most your mainstream trails are doable with a rear locker and a 33" tire with no problem.

Have fun
 
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zukijames

Well-Known Member
Location
not moab anymore
Prichett might be rough..zukman when was the last time you ran it?

Also hells in 2 hours.. Is that skipping the look out and hells gate or are you saying you did the trail and all the obsticals with a group in 2 hours? If so that's awesome
 

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
Haha.. I've done hells revenge by myself, no group,no lookout,no escalator.... Sub hour..
If he is worried abut Golden Spike there is no way he is doing the escalator or hells gate.....

I last did Pritchett on memeorial day weekend 2010.. Stock suspension Samurai on 29" swampers...in the mud..took a winch twice, only because of the mud..

Cherokee with dana44 locked up on 33" tires, Find me one to use, I'll put cash on the line I take it through pritchett, rear locker only, I will have to work for my money but I'd still take the bet.

:rofl:
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
i have no doubt you could get it through pritchet in a cherokee on 33s, but I doubt you could have done that your first time to moab ;)

I remember my first time to Moab, and it's quite a shock from anything else. Amazing, fun, but a shock compared to any other trails I'd done. Remember, these guys have never wheeled sandstone, so it'll take a little while to understand how each rig will behave.
 
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