A tale of two (Ducati) Monsters

[jsudar]

I’m home from work sick. It’s probably Covid, but only because I’m not sure it’s possible to be sick with anything besides Covid anymore. Bad cold = Covid. Raging diarrhea = Covid. Brain tumor = Covid. Anyway, I’m so bored that I thought I’d write a lengthy post detailing how I ended up with two Ducati Monsters in my garage.

A little background: I bought in to the lies my mother told me about motorcycles. They’re dangerous. They’ll kill you. Only stupid people ride them. So I rode mountain bikes instead. At the end of 2014, I got a job with @Corban_White and he made me ride his dirt bike. Turns out all the things my mother told me are true, but she left out the part about how much fun they are. By 2017 I had my own YZ250. Did a bunch of riding in Moab and other fun places. Then I broke my collarbone at the dunes, got some fancy titanium bits installed and sold the bike. Shortly, after that @Corban_White found me a deal on a Husaberg FE450 that I couldn’t pass up and I was riding again. Even on the street, because the ‘Berg was plated. Been riding ever since. Illegally too, because I didn’t want to get my motorcycle endorsement on a 450.
Fast forward to March of 2022 when I found a KSL ad for a $500 2002 Ducati Monster 620. Been up two days. No pics and no favorites because he listed it in the Collectibles section (thank you, baby boomers for not fully understanding the interwebs). I got him to send me a couple pics and it’s a total basket case, but he had started reassembling it. Fresh powder coat on the frame and swingarm and he swears everything is there except the gas tank. So I grab a couple buddies and go pick it up on St. Patty’s Day. I mean, it’s a $500 Ducati! How could I retain my humanity and not buy it?
Well… as you’ve probably guessed by now there were more parts missing than just the fuel tank and it’s been one heck of an instructionless Lego set… and it’s still not running. But this brings us to the second Monster.
I spent a couple years of indentured servitude for the local church in Berlin, Germany. Germany is close to Italy, so there were a lot of Ducati’s running around. I kind of fell in love with them. Specifically, the 02 to 08 years of the Monster made me tingle on the inside. You know the feeling. That’s why I had to buy the basket case. It was the “one.”

Word got out among my friends that I’d purchased a Ducati. A friend of a friend says he wants to sell his Monster and asks if I want another. His just happens to be an 07 Monster S4Rs. If you don’t know what an S4Rs is, I will tell you. It’s the most baddest Monster ever made. (Technically the Monster 1200R has a few more horses, but it doesn’t have the “look” that I love). It’s what you end up with when you bolt all the nice parts from the Superbike onto that sexy Monster frame. 130 HP liquid cooled 998cc Testastretta motor. Öhlins suspension all the way around. Massive Brembo radial brakes. Lots of carbon. Forged Marchesini wheels also from the Superbike. It will do 155 MPH before it looses out to its total lack of aerodynamics. The same year of Superbike, with a nearly identical motor, will do over 170 thanks to the fairing and some different tuning.
Anyway, it’s the king of the Monsters and I quickly discover that it’s the “one” way more than my $500 620 is the “one.” So, I bought it too. I got a really good deal on it because it ran like crap. Wouldn’t idle, stumbled with any throttle input below 5k RPM. Huge PITA to ride because it stalled all the time. Once you got it above 5000 revs, it pulled like a freight train. It was truly terrifying. Perfect for a beginner bike, right?
Me being me, I can’t pay money to people who actually know what they’re doing to have the bike fixed…. that’s just silly. So I bought a black box and adapter cables from a guy in London and downloaded some kinda sketchy software from a guy in Germany to teach my laptop to speak Italian.
I knew the bike was running rich. It had fouled a lot of expensive spark plugs in very few miles. I knew it had a Tuneboy tune on it as well. My IAWDiag (sketchy software) program allowed me to reset my TPS and also discover that the fuel trim was at +110. Fuel trim can be adjusted from -128 to +128 with 0 supposedly being factory default. So my fuel trim was almost maxed out! I dropped it down to +10 and what do you know? The bike idled! And actually had decent low speed manners!
Each point of fuel trim (or CO trim as some call it) equals so many pico seconds of injector pulse width. I basically lowered the entire fuel map across the whole RPM range. So now low speed drivability is amazing, but that terrifying pull from 5k to redline is very muted. Felt like my 450. Sadness. I started adding fuel trim back in, but only made it to +20 before stalling became an issue again. The software I have doesn’t allow me to edit the actual fuel map, which clearly needs to happen, but at least it’s rideable now. Eventually, I’ll have to pay actual money to have it dyno tuned and a new fuel map made, since the Tuneboy map seems to be password protected (according to MotoStation).

 

[jsudar]

First post was getting pretty lengthy, so I’ll start again.
Funny story: I love my new Monster, so I’ve been commuting on it. My wife gets after me because I don’t have my motorcycle endorsement and she’s sure I’m gonna get busted.
I give in to the spousal pressure and go to the driver’s license place on my day off. Pay a bunch of money, pass the written test with flying colors, get holes punched in my plastic license (this sucks because I had my hair in dreadlocks in the picture on it) and they hand me a temporary paper learner’s permit license. This is until I pass the driving test.

Couple days later, wife tells me she wants to go to Europe for our twenty year anniversary in August and asks me to check my passport. My passport expires mid June. So, we’re like, we’ll we can pay extra to expedite the renewal. But then I see that you cannot renew a passport with a learners permit/temporary license. And it’s six weeks to get the new plastic one after I do the driving test.
The alternative is another form of state issued ID and SSN card. But someone forgot to pay the renewal fee on their CCW and it lapsed. So I literally have no valid photo ID right now. I don’t think I can even get on a plane, to go anywhere, let alone out of the country. I find this situation far funnier than she does.

 

[jsudar]

Okay, so this is the part where I need help from RME. What do I do with the $500 Monster now?
I’ve got another $1200 into it— seat, tank, bars, levers, miscellaneous hardware and a $500 USED fuel pump. Yeah, you read that right. It was $1k for a new one. I bet it needs another $600-700 to make it run safely.

My wife thinks she wants it, but she’s 5’ 2” and has never ever ridden a motorcycle before. I think she needs a Grom.

Should I just build it and see if I can flip it and make a few bucks?
Should I let my wife have it?
Should I put KTM forks on it and build a dirt Monster dual sport?
Let’s hear some ideas!!!!

It’s a Monster Dark edition. This means it’s the lowest end Monster. Single front disc, five speed trans, small displacement etc.
I jumped the gun and bought a six speed gear stack off eBay that should drop right in… but if I’m splitting the case… that means Carillo rods and 750 pistons and cylinders have to go in. Right?

Seriously, I don’t know what to do with this bike. I want to hear some ideas. It’s never going to compare with my S4Rs. I already have the ultimate Monster, so I want to do something weird and different with it.

Preliminary measurements from my Husaberg indicate KTM forks would fit fairly well. Have to get creative with the rear end, though. I have a mill and lathe and build bicycles from scratch. I’m not afraid of crazy ideas.

 

[Gravy]

I also have 2 L twin (Monster based) Ducatis.
A 2016 Scrambler Classic and a 2017 Scrambler Desert Sled.
I started with the Classic and when my wife got her motorcycle endorsement she stole it from me and I had to buy the Sled.
She's tall though 5'8".
It's LOTS of fun to ride together.
Scramblers are 803s and much more torquey than the 750. Dimensionally the same motor.
My assumption is that the standard Scrambler forks would fit the little Monster and give it some actually offroadish travel but fitting Sled forks would be more challenging, as the Sled frame is much beefier including the headset. Although a proper machineist could figure out a way to make the steering spindle from your Monster fit a set of Sled triple clamps.

I would say the Monster would be fun for the wife.

Maybe your fancy tuning software can reset my change oil light.... The stealership (Harrison Motorsports) wants too much moneys to just reset it.

 

[Kevin B.]

Should I let my wife have it?
Should I put KTM forks on it and build a dirt Monster dual sport?

 

[Tonkaman]

I vote hybrid dirt scooter!!

Actually, No. I vote sell me the S4Rs so you don’t disappoint your mom 😎

 

[jsudar]

Just for fun… most KTMs use a 50.25 x 29 x 15mm bearing in the headstock. All Ducati’s use 55 x 35 x 14mm bearings. Headstock length on both bikes is 7ish inches. Should be a piece of cake for me to turn a spacer to drop KTM bearings in a Duc frame and thus KTM forks.

 

[Corban_White]

You should get the wife a Grom. If she likes it then try her out on the Monster. If she doesn't like it, build it for off road. If she likes it, you have a Grom to play with and a street riding partner!

 

[glockman]

You should get the wife a Grom. If she likes it then try her out on the Monster. If she doesn't like it, build it for off road. If she likes it, you have a Grom to play with and a street riding partner!

Spoken like a smart man who has motorcycles and a wife and has been down this path. I assume.

 

[jsudar]

I’m so bored. I haven’t missed this much work due to being sick ever, I think. I don’t know what I got, but it’s not pleasant. I was supposed to leave on a three day road trip tomorrow morning. That ain’t gonna happen.
This wasn’t just any road trip. This was a ROAD trip. The kind where I was gonna play musical cars between a 1000 HP ZR1 Vette, a 1200 HP Ultima RS, a modded GT500, a smattering of Terminator Cobra’s and I think the guy with the 700 HP NSX was going too. I got tunnel vision last time I rode in that thing. I’m sad, so I’ll keep writing about motorcycles.
@Corban_White and I used to ride together a lot. You know, stuff like quick after work rides that lasted until we literally had to be back at work in five hours. Endless babyheads in Hobble Creek at midnight. And then racing down 9th East in Provo at 1 AM on a 450 at warp speed. Head shake be damned. Same with campus cops and noise ordinances.
Or riding three hours (also on a weeknight) of single track around Sheep Creek and then popping out on Highway 6 with 30 miles of pavement to get back to the truck. I didn’t even know how find sixth gear, let alone ride on a major highway. Thought for sure I’d be forced off the road into a barbed wire fence by a semi carrying black powder moments before it exploded.
Anyway, it became clear that dual sport bikes were awesome and that none of the bikes we owned were that great at dual sporting. None are really, there are just too many compromises to be made. I could go on for days about all the adventures we had on various bikes that led us to this conclusion.

One day, @Corban_White and I were heading to a remote job site and had some serious windshield time to contemplate existential topics like what would make the ultimate dual sport? It couldn’t be his beloved ATK 605, because it only had a 5 speed gear box. The 450 Husaberg was a wicked single track slayer, but at 42ish HP it was somewhat underpowered and with it’s head-shaky freeway manners, it was too much on the dirt side of things. This led us to the Corban’s WR250X. Six gears, not too heavy (280 lbs) decent factory headlight, suspension was adequate off-road (kinda) and felt planted on the road. Bike was great at freeway speeds once you waited the eternity to get it there. It had 3000 mile oil change intervals and you didn’t have to adjust valves every other ride because the motor was derived from a street bike motor and not an MX. It’s basically one quarter of an R1 motor. But it made 30 HP. 0 to 60 was like a preschool graduation. Way longer than it needed to be.
Intense thinking continued.
What if the WR250X was a WR500X? What if it was a V twin? Then it would stay narrow, only weigh 20 or 25 lbs more, but make 50 to 60 HP. That would be amazing! Tweak the suspension a bit and we’d have the best dual sport evar! Let’s call Yamaha, let them have the inside scoop on our armchair engineering and have them build us a sweet bike! I guess it doesn’t work that way.
But seriously, the idea of a road bike based V twin as a dual sport, got lodged in my brain and I couldn’t let it go. A Harley was out of the question—mostly due to weight, size, weird gearbox configuration and weight. Same with most other cruiser type V twin bikes—they were all huge and weighed 800 lbs. I thought long and hard about this one before landing on Ducati.
Most Ducati’s had six gears, a reasonably sized (narrow) gearbox/crankcase, and were fairly lightweight as far as road bikes go. They were fuel injected, electric start, made decent power and many were air cooled for simplicity’s sake.
A Monster 696 was determined to be the ideal donor bike. Could be easily found for $5-6k. 355 lb dry weight and made 80 HP. The most HP per cc of any air cooled Ducati ever. The only downsides were spending
$5-6k on a donor bike to hack up when it was probably super fun to ride as is. And then the problem that 696s were ugly compared to a 695. Too much cast aluminum and not enough trellis. Same problem with any Mosnter after 08. I got a disease and the only prescription is more trellis.
What can I say? I build bicycle frames by torch brazing 4130 together. Nothing is more sexier than a bunch of steel triangles. Ducati Panigale: you’re no son of mine. I hoist my middle finger in your general direction. Nevertheless, I would mind tossing a leg over a V4 Panigale and experiencing 230 horses. But just to see how it feels.

Anyway, I never purchased a Monster 696 to build the ultimate dual sport, but when the $500 Monster 620 popped up— well, you can see how I HAD to purchase it. Not just because I thought it was sexy, but because this was an opportunity to make the Ducati dual sport a reality and not feel bad about chopping up a $6000 696. Although, I’m still having second thoughts about chopping up the 620, even though it’s already in pieces.

Now, I’m looking at cheap KTM donors. Wouldn’t be right to not have Brembo brakes. We can call it the DuKaTi Monster. Oh my gosh. That’s so cheesy it smells like queso fundido.

 

[Corban_White]

I think about that "quick after work" ride on the GWT from Provo Canyon to Hobble Creek Canyon often. Generally not with a lot of fondness... but it was definitely an adventure. Who doesn't want to leave on a ride right after work on one of the longest days of the year that we thought should have finished with us back home before sundown, only to have the sun going down at about the midpoint of the ride! And then get back to the office a mere 5 hours before we had to be back there, mostly unable to put weight on my right foot! Definitely type 2 fun. Maybe type 2.5 . I certainly miss our adventures.

 

[jsudar]

Oh yeah. I forgot all about the near ankle break. Probably because it was your ankle and not mine. Definitely added to the experience, though.

 

[benjy]

Amazing, keep the story rolling.

Ultima is finished? Pics?

Type 2.5 fun 😂

Corbin - I thought you had a WR250R, or did you have both?

 

[jsudar]

Maybe your fancy tuning software can reset my change oil light.... The stealership (Harrison Motorsports) wants too much moneys to just reset it.

Do you know what ECU you have? My setup will read Magnetti Marelli 5AM and 59M ECUs. It’s possible for me to download software to read some of the other MM ECUs like the 15x series. However, after 2010 Ducati had moved on to Siemens and Mitsubishi controllers on many of their bikes and I can’t do anything with those. Yet. Only because I haven’t had the need.

 

[glockman]

Not to steer you away from a Ducati but......The KTM 690 is most of what you are looking for and a blast to ride.

 

[Gravy]

I loved my 690r! I think I put 5k miles on it (at least 75-80% dirt)
It was NOT good on the freeway past 55. Very steep head angle. I had to crank the steering damper all the way stiff just to not scare myself.

 

[Corban_White]

Amazing, keep the story rolling.

Ultima is finished? Pics?

Type 2.5 fun 😂

Corbin - I thought you had a WR250R, or did you have both?

It was a WR250X. Basically the same bike with wide 17" wheels F&R instead of the 21/18 of the R.

 

[Gravy]

So it's actually a monster 900ie, KTM swingarm and Husqvarna forks

 

[Gravy]

Another one.

 

[jsudar]

That last pic looks like a Terra Mostro. That was a kit you could buy for several billion dollars to transform your Monster 695 into a dirty monster. I think they’re out of business now. I love it though.