AF snowbird thread

SuperRunner

Turbo is my middle name
Location
Orem, Utah
Greg, why did you delete that thread. I believe that people should know what is going on, and others need to know how poeple feel about this whole situation. I think that thread should remain, maybe add some final comments at the end, but maybe lock it out so no more posts can be added, but not deleted.

JMHO
 

bobdog

4x4 Addict!
Location
Sandy
It Is OK to censor terroristic threats (They should have been removed before somebody called Snowbirds attention to the board), but disscusion and opinions being deleted seems really wrong.
 

spencurai

Vanilla Gorilla
Location
WVC,UT
greg and i talked about it and greg decided to put the thread down. not out of censorship but out of the need to start anew. the issue is important so lets keep talking about it. lets not let out empty headed threats (including my own jokes) get in the way of logical discussion of AN IMPORTANT TOPIC!! say on fellows. :D
 
Greg and I also discussed changing the title of the thread, he wasn't sure if he could do it without deleting the thread. I do know that EZRhino was going to edit the nonsense from his post.

We will be meeting tonight with Snowbird Mountain Operations to discuss Mineral Basin and Miller Hill and specifically the Rock Garden.

If you would like to attend, please contact me offlist at bdavis@enviropax.com to get the time and location.

Please bring pics of Mineral Basin (including the rock garden) and Miller Hill.

Thank you,
Brett Davis
U4WDA - Special Projects
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Greg, why did you delete that thread. I believe that people should know what is going on, and others need to know how poeple feel about this whole situation. I think that thread should remain, maybe add some final comments at the end, but maybe lock it out so no more posts can be added, but not deleted.

It Is OK to censor terroristic threats (They should have been removed before somebody called Snowbirds attention to the board), but disscusion and opinions being deleted seems really wrong


Hold up there, you guys!! :mad: I did NOT delete the thread!!!!! Have we learned nothing???


I TOTALLY agree with keeping information, especially such a subject as that one. It was out of control at one or two points, but I felt we made good progress in the discussion and had MANY LOGICAL POSTS! I had planned to lock it out.......

I made a final post in the old thread concerning MY PERSONAL stance on the subject and added that the thread needed to end on a positive note. Spence and Brett made suggestions that I should change the title of the thread, but I could not due to the Bulliten Board setup. The only way a thread can be deleted (besides by my doing) is if the original author chooses to delete the first post, thus deleting everything after it.

I have no Ill feelings towards Snowbird! After hearing the other side of the story, things have changed. They have gone above and beyond concerning letting us know how they feel, what the plans are, present and future. Yes, the Trail was changed......but there are plans to change it back and a meeting to ensure it is done PROPERLY, which it will! We just have to hammer out the details.

Mr. Black did not HAVE to post on our Board and let us know what the plans were, but he DID. He told us, in spite of the uncalled for Threats and our willingness to quickly point fingers without hearing the whole story.

As Brett mentioned, there will be a meeting tonight and I will be there. I'll return with as much information that I can collect and post it here.

No hard feelings? :D Let's continue to stick together on these subjects, that is the only way we can fight the closures!
 

1\4elliptic toy

shenanigans!
Location
The Dark Side
I deleted the post after deciding that it was unfair of me to be so harsh about the title (boycott snowbird they suck) I tried to change the title but couldn't. Anyway after I had cooled down and found out the whole story, I went back and realized that I had jumped the gun with the the whole finger pointing thing. Sorry everybody but it was just to strong of a title for the post let the story continue here:(
 

Skyetone

Kinda crabby latley
Location
East side
sorry rob but I do admire that mr. snowbird did chime in and discuss what was going on. The first two pages of that thread were just junk. After the fasts came out for sure.
Now weither mr. Snowbird will actually follow through with the plan of returning the trail back to "normal" is to be seen.
I wish I could attend the meetings but alas my life will not allow. I will try and do what I can in the future......
 

Shawn

Just Hanging Out
Location
Holly Day
Originally posted by bobdog
[

Ahhhh,

I see nothing about plans to distroy that road.

And do ALL companies Really Lie?

I think at this point it should be odvious that Snowbird has nothing to hide.
 
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bobdog

4x4 Addict!
Location
Sandy
I don't think we have the whole story yet and probably never will. I also think people can take things the wrong way on these boards and people get combative when if they were talking in person they would agree with each other. One thing though is I would encourage everyone to do some research on things that could affect this area in the future. There is a lot of stuff out there on what snowbird has said in the past, what they have actually done, environmental impact statements, public comment meetings, ect. Some of the stuff I have learned over the last few days makes me fear for the whole area not just this road. Search the forest service, EPA, media archives, and even environmental groups(Save our Canyons for example). And always remember what maters most to Snowbird.
 
Bobdog,

I agree with you in that the writing has been on the wall regarding Mineral Basin for a very long time. I'm sure the time will come that the road is paved and there are lodges and cabins there. Maybe not in 5 years, or even 10. I'm not being pessimistic, just pragmatic. I hope it stays a worthy and scenic challenge.

The only constant is change...including change in Snowbird management and the resulting corporate goals regarding their private property.

Best we can do is work with our neighbors in the smartest way possible, and with a spirit of win/win.

btw, I really did appreciate the link to that information, and any more you can dig up. It helps keep honest people honest.

All:

There are about 15 people RSVP'd and on the list for tonight's meeting, and I'd like to keep it at about that level. Several from this bboard are on the list.

Brett
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Originally posted by Nuber
All:

There are about 15 people RSVP'd and on the list for tonight's meeting, and I'd like to keep it at about that level. Several from this bboard are on the list.

Brett

Speaking of...... are there any questions that should be presented, for those not able to attend? (I'm leaving in 20 minutes, so you'll have to type fast!)
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Originally posted by 1\4elliptic toy
I deleted the post after deciding that it was unfair of me to be so harsh about the title (boycott snowbird they suck) I tried to change the title but couldn't. Anyway after I had cooled down and found out the whole story, I went back and realized that I had jumped the gun with the the whole finger pointing thing. Sorry everybody but it was just to strong of a title for the post let the story continue here:(

Tracy-
Thanks for your concern and pulling the post. I know it's hard to pull back things said earlyier.
 

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Originally posted by Nuber
Bobdog,

I agree with you in that the writing has been on the wall regarding Mineral Basin for a very long time. I'm sure the time will come that the road is paved and there are lodges and cabins there. Maybe not in 5 years, or even 10. I'm not being pessimistic, just pragmatic. I hope it stays a worthy and scenic challenge.

Brett

Sure the time will come, just look at corner canyon I used to wheel up there all the time. Where I used to wheel now there's damn sub-division. Givin AF is a little different but I think we can all plan on what has already been said, that a 500k house is going to be sitting where you used to camp.

But for now I think we can concentrate on the issues at hand, getting the facts straight not jumping to conclusion's and getting the trail restored to it's original or better state.
 

bobdog

4x4 Addict!
Location
Sandy
Corner Canyon, Lark, Butterfield, Emigration, Even the desolation trail at the top of Millcreek Canyon was once a legal and open 4X4 trail. And don't forget Guardsman where you used to be able to drive on what is now deer valley ski runs.
 

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
I just got back from the meeting. I must say that I was very impressed with how open Bob Black and his associates were. They said, had they known how much the Offroad Community cared about the Rockgarden area, it would not have been touched. I absolutely believe that these guys will make sure the Rockgarden will be fully restored as good as, if not better than before. On that note: They have NO INTREST in creating a road that you could get your Subaru up. They want as few people up there as possible. The harder, the better. They want the trail to weed out the number of folks that come up to Mineral Basin and unknowingly drive where they should not. The more challenging the trail, the less people Snowbird will see in the summer.

The intrest in getting the Trackhoe down as far as it was, is due to the possible contamination of runoff from an open mine on Snowbird Property. They are working on sealing up this area in question. This project was a one time down and back up deal. They have a general understanding with the Forest Service concerning the access to their land. They DO NOT have to ask permission if they need access to an area. That is why the FS was out of the loop on the going ons in that area.

As for a timeline, look for the work to be wrapped up by next Wednesday. Brett and a couple select others will be in contact with Bob to ensure the Rockgarden is restored into a state which is very challenging, yet driveable. Ofcourse, this does depend on the reliablity of the equipment.

Some of the related subjects included the Bypass around the Rockgarden. As anyone who has been visiting Mineral Basin over the years knows, the bypass has develped over the last two to three years. The idea of closing the bypass was mentioned and very well recieved. The discussion included the idea to build a fence of sorts (Like the ones just below the turnoff for Pittsburg), plant seedlings and post the area as a reclaimation area. That way, if you aren't equipped to go beyond the Rockgarden, then thats the end of the line. I fully support this idea and hope to organize a weekend where we can see this done.

We have been asked to help Snowbird, to be the 'Eyes and Ears' in parts of the canyon where they can't always be.

I want to thank Shawn for his part in this and introducing a solution thru the meeting. For all those that contributed to the old thread, your ideas are always welcome. I do believe we need to realize that this isn't a private BBoard, anyone can read what is posted. I encourage thought before posting on a matter, which you may regret later on.

Thats all I have for now. If anyone wants to add anything or ask questions, lets see it! Thanks again, Greg
 
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