Air shocks or springover coils?

[oldschoolyj]

Ok, need a new project and I am thinking about redoing my springs and trying to get a little more stretch. Currently on 3" LCG with high fenders to clear 38" tires. I only have 3" of up travel and when I hit the open dirt roads it bottoms out hard. I heard today that the air shock is the way to go. So am looking for the pros and cons to both.
Currently, at 99.5" with a Tera 60 rearend and Genright Tank

And yes Carl, I should have done it last summer when I rebuilt the Jeep.

 

[Caleb]

Coilovers or air bumps...IMO (or both if you can afford it ) Air shocks are great if you're A) on a budget, B) lightweight, C) very limited on space. I don't think air shocks would be all that great on the open dirt roads. You'll get shock fade pretty bad (depending on how long you're talking) and unless you have swaybars, which you may already, they can get pretty floppy.

 

[I Lean]

Ok, need a new project and I am thinking about redoing my springs and trying to get a little more stretch. Currently on 3" LCG with high fenders to clear 38" tires. I only have 3" of up travel and when I hit the open dirt roads it bottoms out hard. I heard today that the air shock is the way to go. So am looking for the pros and cons to both.
Currently, at 99.5" with a Tera 60 rearend and Genright Tank

Like Supergper said, coilovers will definitely be better than airshox. You might look at "Hunt's Debadged RME TJ" for ideas--he has coils still, but with airbumps. http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=62562

And yes Carl, I should have done it last summer when I rebuilt the Jeep.

:greg:

 

[UNSTUCK]

unless you have swaybars, which you may already, they can get pretty floppy.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that if you set up your geometery well enough, you could all but eliminate body roll. I have not built one, but seen rigs with almost no roll, with no swaybars. I do understand though, that in a bodied rig/stock frame we are limited in where we can place our links. I also fail to see how a coilover will control roll better then an air shock. If the suspension was the same and the coilovers and air shocks were tuned the same, the outcome should be the same. That's a big plus with air shocks, the tuning.

 

[Caleb]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that if you set up your geometery well enough, you could all but eliminate body roll. I have not built one, but seen rigs with almost no roll, with no swaybars. I do understand though, that in a bodied rig/stock frame we are limited in where we can place our links. I also fail to see how a coilover will control roll better then an air shock. If the suspension was the same and the coilovers and air shocks were tuned the same, the outcome should be the same. That's a big plus with air shocks, the tuning.

Actually, the tuning on an airshock is the downside. They are far less tunable than a coilover. Also, air shocks don't right themselves as well as coilovers. You can walk up to a rig with airshocks and pull down one side and it will stay sagged until you transfer the weight to the other side. Once the shocks get broken in, they get a bit better but they still have the same issue. I know on my buggy, I would get body roll pretty good but the suspension was setup great. The other thing with airshocks is you are trying to control rebound as well as provide lift (something a shock was never designed to do). Coilovers have the shock to control rebound and the spring to provide lift, as a result of trying to do both, airshocks are a lot more prone to unloading.

I'm not saying airshocks are bad, just that what you understand of airshocks is not entirely correct. I liked my airshocks a lot, but despite the cost I will do coilovers on my next rig (whenever that is ).

 

[RockMonkey]

It is theoretically possible to eliminate body roll with suspension geometry. You just have to put the roll center at the same height as the vehicle center of gravity. It would involve putting suspension links way up above the axle though, and would not be practical except in a very purpose-built chassis. This is why you see some moon buggys with non-triangulated four-link rear suspensions with panhard-bars mounted way up high, at the very back of the chassis. The center of the panhard bar is the roll center.

Oh, and coilovers > airshocks

 

[UNSTUCK]

Now this tread is getting some great information in it.

 

[Silly Willy]

Now this tread is getting some great information in it.

X2

 

[LT.]

In a worst case scenario if you have a shock failure you will still have suspension with a coil over shock but no dampening. If you have an air shock failure you will be riding out on the bump stops with no suspension and no dampening.

LT.

 

[RockMonkey]

In a worst case scenario if you have a shock failure you will still have suspension with a coil over shock but no dampening. If you have an air shock failure you will be riding out on the bump stops with no suspension and no dampening.

LT.

Unless the failure is breaking off one end of the shock, as I've seen happen on both air shocks and coilovers. From a "fail-safe" perspective, you'd be better off with coils and separate shocks, technically.

 

[LT.]

Unless the failure is breaking off one end of the shock, as I've seen happen on both air shocks and coilovers. From a "fail-safe" perspective, you'd be better off with coils and separate shocks, technically.

I was thinking about a leak on the shock of some sort. Either air or hydraulic. But, your right, anything like that and I would still prefer a coil over shock.

LT.

 

[oldschoolyj]

Ok, let me throw one more thing into the ring.

Leave the coils and add air bumps to help with the bottoming out.
The sale that I was hit with, was air shocks costs about as much as a good air bump. But, the air shock would do both.


From what I see, I am thinking save some more coin and go with the springover.

 

[LT.]

And there you have it. If I had to do it all over again I would have just bought some flexible leaf springs and been done with it.

LT.

 

[UNSTUCK]

Anyone run a good leaf spring with an air bump? How do they handle?

 

[GOAT]

I was at the same crossroad with my LCG build. After all was said and done, it wasn't much more to buy coilovers than the 2.5 airshocks. Both were from fox racing. The airshock did not provide enough tune-ability for LCG with limited uptravel ETC. Just too much uncertainty in my opinion.

FWIW, if you do choose to run airshocks, don't run anything less than a 2.5" on a heavy production based rig.

 

[rondo]

On my YJ build (which is a couple yrs old now) I chose coilovers in front and air shocks in back. I chose air shocks in back because they worked great on my pals 1/2 yota 1/2 buggy thingy.
My observations since then:
- air shocks on my YJ created a LOT of uncontrolled body roll. stretching the wheel base and linking it made it work fantastic off road but i hate the body roll. (this week i plan to put in a anti-rock sway bar).
And on mine i had one blow out and leave me stuck driving off the trail at 1 mph with no suspension. A coilover would not do that.

- The front coilovers are excellent but i'm sure the body roll is all from the rear. However so i can go faster on the trail i'm installing hydraulic air bumps on the front this week. Packaging is a bit of a challenge.

- i've never experienced shock fade with this setup but it's a crawler not a desert runner so who knows.

If i had to do it again i'd probably not run air shocks on the back and go straight to coilovers, then evaluate if it needs an anti-rock. My buddies stretched YJ on leafs doesn't have the flex that mine has but goes anywhere (and he's twice the driver I am). There is very little that my jeep can do that his cannot.

Finally I don't agree that the set up of the suspension alone would negate the body roll. As was said above by supergpr, the air shock has some peculiarities. I do admit that i've never tried to "tune" them by adding oil, etc etc.

 

[oldschoolyj]

What brands of springovers coils have you had the best luck with. Would still want to run a bump stop with the springovers as well?

 

[LT.]

Check out the FOA coil overs. Here, http://www.f-o-a.com/

LT.

 

[RockMonkey]

What brands of springovers coils have you had the best luck with. Would still want to run a bump stop with the springovers as well?

I've been happy with both sets of Sway-A-Ways I've had. They now come with bump stops on the shafts. Ideally you would want additional bump stops on your chassis, but you can get away without them.

 

[mbryson]

Ok, let me throw one more thing into the ring.

Leave the coils and add air bumps to help with the bottoming out.
The sale that I was hit with, was air shocks costs about as much as a good air bump. But, the air shock would do both.


From what I see, I am thinking save some more coin and go with the springover.

You'll spend a little on the springover. (just as an example, I think I've got about $500ish extra in my steering that would have cost about $200ish if I had stuck with the link setup) I think if I had it to do over again, I'd likely do the links with the coil-overs as I had planned originally. The rig does work pretty well, but it's taken some time to tune it to how it works for me and my driving style.

It's a tough call on what will work better. It's like comparing a D300 to an Atlas II. The D300 is about 60-75% of the price of an Atlas II. The Atlas has ALL new parts and is proven and tested. IMHO, the Atlas might have been worth the upgrade price had I known exactly where I'd end up after a few years.

It took me a few leaf setups, and trail failures to find something that's been working for the last couple of years. Now I'm at the maint. level with the leaf springs. Likely a similar process with coil-overs, but you have infinite adjustability. Now I'm wearing out spring bushings (which is better than snapping leaf springs). I DO like the predictability of my leaf setup. I'm very confident with it off-road, but still do get some wheelhop that could be tuned out with a proper link system.

And there you have it. If I had to do it all over again I would have just bought some flexible leaf springs and been done with it.

LT.

Mine seems to work pretty well with stock XJ springs. Tough to think about changing it now.

Anyone run a good leaf spring with an air bump? How do they handle?

I'd be glad to try a set out for you.