Am I Being Detained?

[moab_cj5]

I suspect the officers on the forum haven't chimed in because of a policy about making statements on public forums. I don't think any of them want to jeopardize their jobs if what they put their opinion on the interwebs about something like this.

 

[jeeper]

It sounds more like a case of the LEOs not backing down untill they charge him with something.

A LEO can find a way to ticket you in just about any situation.. Even if they are wrong it takes days of court to fight it.. it is impossible for us to know every law, and they can easily pick an obscure law to bust you with, however why would they if you were a polite and easy to deal with person?

 

[Kevin B.]

I suspect the officers on the forum haven't chimed in because of a policy about making statements on public forums. I don't think any of them want to jeopardize their jobs if what they put their opinion on the interwebs about something like this.

I wouldn't be posting in here as an LEO, policy or not.

 

[sixstringsteve]

A LEO can find a way to ticket you in just about any situation.. Even if they are wrong it takes days of court to fight it.. it is impossible for us to know every law, and they can easily pick an obscure law to bust you with, however why would they if you were a polite and easy to deal with person?

I agree that being civil is the best policy, but being rude should not make you any more guilty of an obscure law than if you were polite.

We don't have LEOs to weed out the rude people and slap obscure laws to them. I'm not undermining LEOs, I'm glad we have them. I'm just disappointed when I see see LEOs (or anyone with authority) using obscure laws to punish people simply because they don't like the way they're behaving.

 

[sixstringsteve]

why would they [pick an obscure law to bust you with] if you were a polite and easy to deal with person?

I don't know why they would, but I don't like that they have the power and authority to slap you with more offenses just because you're not "easy to deal with." Being "easy to deal with" is completely subjective and I don't like that loophole. We've all heard of a random LEO thinking someone carrying a concealed weapon with a permit makes them not "easy to deal with." Does that mean they're justified to pull out obscure laws to slap on the offender?

I don't think law-abiding citizens should be bullied by authority simply because they're "difficult to deal with." At the same time, I believe it's 100% possible to know your rights and still be 100% respectful to LEOs without doing everything they ask you to.

 

[jeeper]

I don't think law-abiding citizens should be bullied by authority simply because they're "difficult to deal with."

This of course is assuming he was law abiding.
I don't think he was being bullied either, she had a legitimate reason for checking id. Had they wanted to make a big deal they could have found ways to take him all the way to jail.
The officer initiated a stop, and then let him on his way as soon as she could. He got the ticket for being a dummy. I'll bet she wanted to be done just as badly as he did.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I don't have a problem with her checking his ID. I have a problem with the loitering charge just because he bugged her.

You shouldn't get a ticket for being a dummy. LEOs shouldn't be intelligence enforcers, or politeness enforcers. He was either loitering or he wasn't.

In my archair cowboy law opinion, he should have gotten a ticket for smoking, not for loitering. She saw him smoking, so she should have cited him for that. Why did she drop the smoking charges? She should have stuck to it if she saw it. I don't have all the facts, and I don't know her intentions, but it sure looks like she issued the ticket to make his life harder and punish him for being a jerk. They're Law Enforcement Officers, not Karma Enforcement Officers.

All that being said, I do think this guy was hoping to get harassed and to catch it on camera. He was a punk who wasn't respectful, but he didn't break any laws (that I know of) during the video. If he didn't break any laws, he shouldn't have been punished.

 

[skiboarder]

Profiling, the last I heard is illegal. You just cant walk up to someone because of how they look and shake them down. If I wanted to wear an t shirt that said cop killer, Obama should be shot and buried, or dress with a certain fashion I can do so because of my first amendment rights. And yes it is racist.
What if he didn't carry ID. That is not illegal. I don't carry my ID all the time. There was a time that carrying ID was mandatory. 1940s Germany. Does any body remember that?

 

[rondo]

I can't watch the whole thing. waste of time. however dude set the tone with the first words out of his mouth. i'm a smarta$$. what does he expect? be polite and civil, and things will probably go ok. have I been in situations with unreasonable cops? sure. I was always polite and civil and things went very very well. some of my friends are cops...some of them are jerks. however I can think of no good reason to be a smarta$$ when the cop has the law, the gun, backup, prosecutor, and handcuffs on their side.

 

[jeeper]

I sent the video to a SLPD officer, and this is what he said:

"Yeah they are U.T.A police. Believe it or not that guy is pretty average for us. I'm frankly surprised he didn't drop the "my uncles a lawyer" line. Also UTA police are funded by private corporate funds not tax dollars. So the lesson is if you're going to be a YouTube douche make sure you actually know what your talking about"

 

[Deleted member 12904]

Being civil is a two way street.
Who has been to the sand dunes on Easter weekend when your camp gets swarmed by officers at 2am demanding to see ID? My wife does not drink alcohol but had a drink in a red cup and was told she had to show ID. I told her not to show it to them since she was not drinking a controlled drink and I was told if I didnt go into my trailer I would revive a public intox ticket? Really We where not being loud even though their is no noise ordinance at sand mountain we where just enjoying friends and a camp fire until these dicks walk into our camp and start trouble.

I have had to do 3 field sobriety tests while at little sahara on holiday weekends over the years. Every stop was made for some BS reason. We couldn't see your registration. Maybe because its dark and we are not required by law to light off road tags? I had a friend get a dui once for listing to music. His rzr had a sound system and the key was in it and while he was not they claimed with the key in it was intent to drive.

When I was younger and had a condo in west valley I couldn't go out after 2am without getting pulled over for some BS reason. You pulled out of the driveway a little quick, or that traffic light was yellow.

I had a cop following me in grantsville last year when my headlight popped 100 yards from my neighborhood. He even acknowledged that he watched it go out and by the time he hit the lights I was 300 yards from home. I could see my house and he still wrote me a ticket.

I have been to court twice to fight stop sign tickets because the cop actually flat out lie and say you ran a stop sign. My sister has been ticketed for this also while visiting my house also.

Every few months a crook will go on a crime spree lasting hours in our town hitting hundreds of cars with out running into law enforcement. But I dare you to drive down main or durfee street between midnight and 3am without passing 3 or 4 cops hiding waiting to pull people over for BS reasons.

I watched a lady get pulled over and did a field sobriety test in Gville. It was at the gas station with the American burger and he made her walk around the corner and do it right in front of the window of the crowded restaurant. Really? Ass hole much? He could have done it right where her car was parked but he made a choice to embarrass her.

Cops have become the tax collectors just like in the cartoon robin hood. They are far more interested in writing citations than anything else.

You all can say what you want I am a good person. I do not use drugs, I do not drink and drive EVER! In 90% of the cases where I have been harassed it was for no other reason than profiling. I am flat out sick of it and hope their is a special place in hell for those type of cops that treat people like that.

 

[jeeper]

I an right there with you deviant.

However, in THIS case I side with the officer

 

[smartass_kid]

well put deviant. I've had a few run-ins with the police since moving to UT and most have been civil even when i was totally at fault. i'm always nice and polite to everyone, until i need to be un-nice and un-polite.

never mistake niceness for weakness.

 

[Herzog]

I'm seeing a lot of "keep your head down, shut up and listen to the authorities" mentality on here. Kinda bummed about that. I think it's a very dangerous mindset.

 

[skiboarder]

I'm seeing a lot of "keep your head down, shut up and listen to the authorities" mentality on here. Kinda bummed about that. I think it's a very dangerous mindset.

I agree whole heartedly!!! Question authority.

 

[jeeper]

I'm seeing a lot of "keep your head down, shut up and listen to the authorities" mentality on here. Kinda bummed about that. I think it's a very dangerous mindset.

Not at all. More of "Don't be an A-hole, and understand that officers are people too" mentality.
Had this been a issue where an officer was out of line, it would be different.. But I still think this guy was looking to start trouble, and then cried when he found it.

 

[Deleted member 12904]

I would also like to point out I'm the guy that votes every judge out every time I vote. I firmly believe anyone's morals will be compromised by being in a position of power for a period of time.

 

[glockman]

I agree with Steve. The guy was a dick but that isn't against the law. My BIL is a cop and I am frequently saddened by the mentality from him and others that the police are there to protect us from ourselves.
I think a lot of police get the attitude that criminals are less than people and get what they deserve. Funny thing is I have been lied to by almost every cop I have ever interacted with. So why is it ok for police to be morally deficient. Why can they lie and manipulate circumstances but if a citizen does they are scum.

I have had both good and bad experiences with LEO's and I always start with civil respect and usually get the same. These types of situations always put me on the fence of who acted more like a dick.


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[Herzog]

I agree with Steve. The guy was a dick but that isn't against the law. My BIL is a cop and I am frequently saddened by the mentality from him and others that the police are there to protect us from ourselves.
I think a lot of police get the attitude that criminals are less than people and get what they deserve. Funny thing is I have been lied to by almost every cop I have ever interacted with. So why is it ok for police to be morally deficient. Why can they lie and manipulate circumstances but if a citizen does they are scum.

I have had both good and bad experiences with LEO's and I always start with civil respect and usually get the same. These types of situations always put me on the fence of who acted more like a dick.

I agree... I've been involved in the past with a few run ins where they officers outright lied. Nothing ever major, but one particular one was a trespassing ticket I got for loading up music equipment into my truck after playing a concert at a PUBLIC park with the proper permits. It was so stupid I thought the judge would throw it out. Huge mistake on my part for assuming that they'd use logic and reason and instead side with an obviously lying officer. I was young, lesson learned. I will no longer answer questions if ever involved in a scenario, never again. Will it make their job tougher? Yes... but that's too bad because I need to do everything I can to protect myself from them, but I will also not answer questions as respectfully as possible.

These bad experiences just pile up and make for some very bad PR.

Also - I understand that you're outlook and attitude completely change when you deal with a very large amount of scumbags and lowlifes... that's normal, but I don't think it's an excuse. It's similar to the argument that some people go off trail so all off-roaders should be treated like the bad ones. It's just not logical and it doesn't make your life any better (as the enforcer).

 

[DAA]

Just going about my day to day, normal, upstanding, tax paying, productive, law abiding life, I'm WAY more scared of what a random cop I might encounter might do to cause me grief, than I am concerned about what a random criminal might do to me. I'm powerless against a cop that decides to get his rocks off jacking with me. I'm far from powerless to defend myself against a criminal. And, from my experience, I'm far more likely to be preyed upon by a cop than a criminal. At least openly, in my day to day life.

Sad. But true. And based on actual life experience.

- DAA