Toad
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Millville(logan)
Would a cold diff have any affect on the engagement? (Thick gear oil)
ARB ?
- Thread starter Toad
- Start date
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
I've got one for ya Kurt...
A few months ago, I was at a competition in the rock garden, and was told to 'bump it' from my spotter. When I came down, I heard a VERY loud bang and my spotter said I had no drive in the passenger tire.
Got it home and torn down and found:
completely destroyed Warn hub
twisted splines on the Yukon outer
busted clutch ring in the ARB
So I rip it all apart and replace the clutch ring and bonded seal. While I was in there I figured I'd replace the o rings, since I knew if I didn't they would leak after it was reassembled (Murphy's Law, right?). I replaced the old round style with the new square style - same part number.
Now when I have a lot of wheel speed, it looses pressure. But at a stand still or just crawling around on the rocks, it completely holds air.
I know it's leaking inside the diff, because when it does it I can smell gear oil.
Any ideas before I take it apart? I'd like to have a game plan first before I just start tearing into it....
A few months ago, I was at a competition in the rock garden, and was told to 'bump it' from my spotter. When I came down, I heard a VERY loud bang and my spotter said I had no drive in the passenger tire.
Got it home and torn down and found:
completely destroyed Warn hub
twisted splines on the Yukon outer
busted clutch ring in the ARB
So I rip it all apart and replace the clutch ring and bonded seal. While I was in there I figured I'd replace the o rings, since I knew if I didn't they would leak after it was reassembled (Murphy's Law, right?). I replaced the old round style with the new square style - same part number.
Now when I have a lot of wheel speed, it looses pressure. But at a stand still or just crawling around on the rocks, it completely holds air.
I know it's leaking inside the diff, because when it does it I can smell gear oil.
Any ideas before I take it apart? I'd like to have a game plan first before I just start tearing into it....
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Make sure your seal housings isn't 'rocking' or 'torquing' under movement. If the copper line isn't setup in just the manner, as the carrier changes directions or varies in speed (mind you this is seen by rotating the pinion by hand) you can watch the pressure drop out of the carrier on the test aparatus. This was the case with James (remember the RME dudes name from last week). We started from the top, when the seal housing was rocking, it would actually make it purge a tad bit of air out of the o-ring bulkhead fitting. So we pulled the bulkhead fitting assembly to find that the o-ring was crushed and the copper tubing wasn't seated quite right. Easy fix.
So we reassembly and re-pressurize it, again when you rotated and spun the pinion back and forth we were getting a slight but noticeable pressure drop when the direction changed. I used a tad bit of gear oil around the circumference of the carrier bearing ID (at the seal housing) to verify we were leaking a little there. OK, pull the seal housing and inspect the seals. They looked OK but it was obvious they were not seated correctly, well actually the entire seal housing wasn't seated 'flush' and therefor rocked a bit purging air.
Come to find out the spanner nut (Toyota specific) was cross threaded and only contacting the carrier bearing race on one corner. I had a new spanner nut in stock and using that we were able to clean up the threads and get a good torque out of it (finally used those new ARB spanner nut pliers
). Re-installed the seal housing w/new o-rings and our pressure loss was minimal if any over say 5 minutes ~120 psi (well over the operating pressure of the ARB.
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
It's a D60 ARB, so no side adjusters. I'm a big believer in carrier preload, so there is no way the seal housing is slopping to side as the carrier rotates. It took me nearly 30 minutes to get the carrier to even start moving this last time - that's with a case spreader and pry bars.
I'm kinda thinking its in the seal housing/o rings... So I'll probably make sure I have them on hand before pulling it again
I'm kinda thinking its in the seal housing/o rings... So I'll probably make sure I have them on hand before pulling it again
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
It's a D60 ARB, so no side adjusters. I'm a big believer in carrier preload, so there is no way the seal housing is slopping to side as the carrier rotates. It took me nearly 30 minutes to get the carrier to even start moving this last time - that's with a case spreader and pry bars.
I'm kinda thinking its in the seal housing/o rings... So I'll probably make sure I have them on hand before pulling it again
You know, there is such a thing as too much preload. It will distort your housing, causing everything to go out of "square", if that is the right word. I do not, however think that that would cause your leak. Your seal housing rides on the carrier, which should stay true regardless of the axle housing. Just be carefull that you give your carriers the right preload. Not too much or too little. A few thousandths is a lot. With a spreader, your carrier should pretty much drop in and lift out.
rondo
rondo
- Location
- Boise Idaho
i've come to hate my ARBs; it's always one thing or another. my favs: cracked blue line at the diff (2x), popping fuses(2x), oil that comes up the line from the rear axle, a rear axle that stayed locked and wouldn't unlock, bad relay another time. I for one would like to figure out how to pressurize them from a small air tank, instead of relying on the compressor. I'm not too smart with such things but having to screw with the air source every third time i go out gets old. i guess i've had them since 2001 and it's easy to forget all the times they worked flawlessly. But running detroits and even spools has been foolproof haha
RockMonkey
Suddenly Enthusiastic
Who installed them? All ARB problems are due to installer error, you know.
Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
I did the soap and water thing yesterday started at the top and everything looked good didnt notice any leaks. I moved down to the diff and the spring that covers the hose and the fitting were it goes into the diff looked bent. I looked at it closer and sure enough the hose was broke but that didnt make sense becuase the compressor wasnt running anymore. So I pulled the hose out and pulled off the cover and it looks like it had been melted or something so it wasnt allowing air to go past that point. I guess my next move will be to replace the hose and see what happens.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
heh, I'll gladly take a 60 ARB off your hands.
This.
....or if anyone has a 14 bolt ARB kicking around, I'd be glad to put that to use as well.
Toad
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Millville(logan)
Would cold gear oil have anything to do with engagement?
Toad
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Millville(logan)
Anyone ?
RockMonkey
Suddenly Enthusiastic
Floydargue
New guy
- Location
- Salt Lake City
Cold engagement
When it is cold, it can effect the speed of engagement. If everything is working properly, this should be minimal, and should not cause any big issues. BUT, if there is an issue that is causing you to get less air pressure than you should be, or if oil is getting past the seal, and when engaged, it is trying to push the thicker oil out of the way, it can snowball into a bigger issue.
It only takes one slip of the engaging gear to start rounding the corners, then it will start slipping more and more. So, it is advisable to make sure you give it time to engage at any time, but especially in the cold.
Anyway...cold can slow it down a little, but shouldn't cause problems on a working axle.
I have been an ARB supporter for a while now. My pops installed 2 D44 lockers into our family Moab wagon (1976 Cherokee) in 1991. It was used frequently throughout it's life to 2006, at which point it went into my D44. 19 years and zero problems. Holy cow! No ripped lines, no air leaks...just a smoothly locking diff.
When it is cold, it can effect the speed of engagement. If everything is working properly, this should be minimal, and should not cause any big issues. BUT, if there is an issue that is causing you to get less air pressure than you should be, or if oil is getting past the seal, and when engaged, it is trying to push the thicker oil out of the way, it can snowball into a bigger issue.
It only takes one slip of the engaging gear to start rounding the corners, then it will start slipping more and more. So, it is advisable to make sure you give it time to engage at any time, but especially in the cold.
Anyway...cold can slow it down a little, but shouldn't cause problems on a working axle.
I have been an ARB supporter for a while now. My pops installed 2 D44 lockers into our family Moab wagon (1976 Cherokee) in 1991. It was used frequently throughout it's life to 2006, at which point it went into my D44. 19 years and zero problems. Holy cow! No ripped lines, no air leaks...just a smoothly locking diff.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Could really thick lube cause some weird reaction? Sure I suppose, nothing I have dealt with firsthand. Of course having thicker lube can actually slow siphoning of the lube out of the solenoid in some cases so its really not super indicative either way.
I say 'most', you say 'only'. We'll go with yours lol
I have adopted the Rockmonkey approach, only installers can cause an ARB to fail. Period. Lets be real, my results are pretty hard to argue and that pat on the back goes to he whom shall remain anonymous
