Are you a RADICAL anti-environmentalist? Then what are you?

[EZRhino]

I had an interesting conversation with my Mom and Dad tonight over dinner. They were telling me how they were in REI and bought a new tent for backpacking. FYI, I have done some backpacking in my day, along with a lot of skiing, rockclimbing, mountaineering, hiking, etc. in addition to the Jeep/4x4 related stuff that we all know and love. My parents are FAR from enviro's, so let's not go there. Ok, back to the conversation. I said, "UUUgh, why did you buy it there, go to Kirkhams (probly just as bad) or go to Sportsmans Warehouse to get camping stuff!" My mom says, "oh yeah I know you don't like REI blah blah giving money to green groups..." I went off on a familiar rant about how they give money to groups that shut down trails to horses and mt. bikers (they ride both) etc. etc. Then she says how RADICAL I am in am anti-environmentalisst stand. I about flipped! "What!! Are you kidding!! I am not radical at all....do you have any idea what these greenies are doing!?"

So there you go. My question for the forum: Am I/are you radical? Are you radical if you support anti-green groups and refuse to solicit green leaning businesses? There is a LOT of room to the right of me...I don't think I am even beginning to be radical.

Thoughts? This will make a good U4 op ed piece if anyone wants to step up to the plate.

EZ

 

[OCNORB]

Actually, I would consider myself an environmentalist. The "greenie" groups that you speak of are anti-people, anti-common sense, anti-use, and anti-freedom. The whole reason I started wheeling was to get to the great places that this state has to offer. Part of it in the 4x4 and part on foot. All of it for the same reason-- to enjoy the outdoors with my family and friends.

 

[ace]

See, this is how the freaky greenies have changed the debate. By screaming from the far left, they have pulled the center of debate away from common reason. What right do we have to damn a river in order to provide water for the southwestern states. What right do we have to harvest renewable forests to build homes. What right do we have to visit the pristine areas of this planet? The anti recreation people are mostly anti human in my opinion. They don't want to accept that we are part of our environment. If they want to reduce greenhouse gasses they should quit breathing.

 

[Jones]

See, this is how the freaky greenies have changed the debate. By screaming from the far left, they have pulled the center of debate away from common reason. What right do we have to damn a river in order to provide water for the southwestern states. What right do we have to harvest renewable forests to build homes. What right do we have to visit the pristine areas of this planet? The anti recreation people are mostly anti human in my opinion. They don't want to accept that we are part of our environment. If they want to reduce greenhouse gasses they should quit breathing.

It's unfortunate that Far-Left leaning nut jobs have co-opted the term "enviromentalist". The term is now associated with a bunch of idiots who would love nothing more than to dial back humanity, and ignore the fact that our mere existance makes an intergral and very influential (for good and bad) force in the environment. I consider myself a true environmentalist. I love time in the outdoors, I respect the environment I'm in, picking up trash, not leaving my own, no trace camping, staying on trails, and on and on. However, my ideal environment does not include closing it off to humanity. It is unforutnate that too many schmucks go out and create headlines by negative actions on the trail, thus empowering these wacko clowns. It's ridiculous that Sierra Club, SUWA and other like organizations solutions to many environmental ills is to close everything down, essentially damning us to a concrete prison, unless you are "an environmentalist". It's a ridiculous elitism IMO.

 

[BLH]

Ez, you problem, I know you don't want hear it is. You reacted to something, without taking time, to look at both sides of coin. Don't believe me, step back and look at whatyou just wrote for minute, think about who you have having the problem with and then why. I'm not saying you were wrong, just sometimes,if step back little, there is maybe better way to get point cross. Cause by reacting way you did, will make most people become defensive.
But thiswas just thought fromsomeone, that is negative! :greg:

 

[RWH]

what?

 

[Caleb]

Ez, you problem, I know you don't want hear it is. You reacted to something, without taking time, to look at both sides of coin. Don't believe me, step back and look at whatyou just wrote for minute, think about who you have having the problem with and then why. I'm not saying you were wrong, just sometimes,if step back little, there is maybe better way to get point cross. Cause by reacting way you did, will make most people become defensive.
But thiswas just thought fromsomeone, that is negative! :greg:

you're a tool...






EZ, kind of funny, I often have the EXACT same discussion with my parents. They always buy stuff at REI for their Mt. Bikes...kind of hypocritical of REI to even sell stuff for bikes, then they try to block access for the same. I jsut dont get it, if you know they support the anti-access groups, why would you spend even a dime there? There are so many other options out there that are much better than REI.

 

[pumpkinbronc]

I wouldnt call my self an enviromentalists rather enviromentally responsible, I pick trash when I am out and stay on existing roads and routes, Like ocnorb said I wheel cuz I like to get out in the enviroment and enjoy it, you would be surprised how many companies give to the greenies that we support or shop at, the best thing we can do for our sport and our side of the enviromental issue is police our own side and not give the whackos any ammo.

 

[Houndoc]

The issue of terms is a big one. "enviromentalist" should not be the exclusive domain of the wilderness/lockout groups, but that is what it now means.

I would be proud to call myself a conservationalist (ie use, protect and enjoy the land, but with wisdom).

Unfortunately when you look at those who go off trails, leave trash behind etc, they are truely anti-environmentalist.

 

[RKCRWLR]

Websters Dict.: environmentalist- one working to solve environmental problems.

Its just a word the green groups have hijacked, kind of like gay was happy before that word got hijacked Very few of the the green groups are actually working to "solve" problems. They just want to limit access whether there is a problem or not. To be an anti-environmentalist, you would have to work against solving environmental issues and in 16 years of being employed in the environmental field, working for industry, oil & gas, DOD, and nearly every other industry you can think of, I have yet to encounter an individual or a company that is truely anti-environment. Yes, we disagree on what the definition of "problem" is, but for someone to intentially destroy the environment would be insane. A lot of those green groups fighting to keep us off and out of public lands are the first to want to have prescribed burns, etc., often at the expense of the natural evolution of the ecosytem. Kind of hipocritical isn't it? They are trying to sustain the current use. Hmmmm... "sustainable use". There is something you don't hear much about lately.

Stick to you guns. Do your share to protect, preserve and restore. Be low impact and avoid permanent damage. Think sustainable use. Educate yourself and others about minimizing impacts. And remember that there are unreasonable extremists on both sides of this issue. Then you will be more of a true "environmentalist" than most folks I encounter.

 

[Geepfreak]

The anti recreation people.

Key word. Not environmentalists.

 

[andy d]

EZ, i think that you are Rad.

isn't radical a good term? just be glad that she didn't call you an extremist.

 

[great scott]

While I agree with everything stated above and I add to it with, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ! I am not so sure many of us including myself aren't radical? There have been times when it consumed my thoughts and actions or I found myself rambling on to someone who could care less (just knod thier heads at me), or I lost sight of why I was four wheeling ( the fun). We need to KEEP UP THE FIGHT , but we need to step back now and then and keep things in focus. EZ and other like minded souls are just what we need, so DON'T STOP, just breath and finaly, thanks.

 

[harkinoff]

Right wing Left wing I don't think this State even understands the difference between the two? Along with the State I'm from...
I'm enraged to even discuss politics and environmental issues at the same time. People have blown there political views out of proportion by combining the two...

 

[EZRhino]

Good thoughts guys.

Terminology: Yes, we are all environmentalists in the true sense. We are also anit-enviros in the sense that we hate the people who use the term in the political sense. This sucks that we can't even carry on a decent conversation without argueing abut what the other person is saying due to confusing symantics.

Perspective: Many don't really have the big picture, thus labelling us (or them) as this or that. How is me supporting (or not supporting) businesses that support our sport any different than the green groups doing the same thing in reverse? So I'm radical, but they are not? Someone can't see the big picture; or is blinded by the smokescreen the other side (greens) are blowing up their ass.

Action: What are you doing? Are you learning what is happening? Sometimes all we see (or care to see) is what affects us directly. My trail got closed today, those &^%$ BLM $%#@@!! Okay, that may be the case...it may have been closed for good reason or not. What about other recreation opportunities? What about the things the greens do to destroy the mining, timber, power, oil, ranching, and other industries? In a sense, we are all under the same big umbrella.

Anytime the papers are ranting about how the Sierra Club is mad about something, I just smile and think, " Well if they are mad about such and such, then it must not be such a bad thing in the first place."

EZ

 

[utahmike]

man do i have some thoughts on this...but it's late. EZ if your radical i cant imagine what i am!!! I am an environmentalist. I have flouro bulbs throughout my house, i drive 4 cyl. subaru, not the hatchback, i love wild utah and hate the stickers, i like the smell of 2 stroke engines in the morning, although other than my weed eater dont own one. I got my 77 bronco to get 13 miles to the gallon (hey thats really good) i recycle what i can, i think wind power is great, i am for hydrogen fuel cells, yes i will pay more taxes to buy and fund these things, i ride mass transit often, i like commuter rail, i backpack more than all of suwas staff combined..and i bet i ahve way sweeter gear. i have a dog. i adopted him, i eat granola and hummus, yes i have shoped at good earth, and i used to shop at REI, a long time ago and NEVER again. Anyway I am an environmentalist, but i think humans are apart of the environment, and i think it's okay to kill a few bugs and plants in the name of humans well being, socio economics, and so on. i think motorized recreation is okay, i think it has it's place, and it's time. Humans wont destroy the world or her ecosystems, trust me. If an asteriod wiped out 95% of all living species 60 million years ago, which gave rise to humans, i'm pretty sure she can survive us. does that mean we act irresponsibly no, it's in our species best interest to treat her with respect. Extreme enviro's and extreme anything is bad, and is usually about motives other than what common sense people want. yes money is a big part of it. But as long as thier are good people with common sense thier is hope and we can hold on to what is right. The earth will survive, lets just hope we pass her on to future generations in the same or better state than we now have. Which means we need a better trail system for off roading! oh, and dont forget comuter rail to Nephi. That would be great

PS, there is nothing radical about not supporting businesses that fund extreme ideals, or even ideals contrary to our own, we all do it, whether we know it or not.

 

[RockMonkey]

If all goes well there will be an EXCELLENT video on this very subject playing on the Moab Adventure Channel for Labor Day weekend. I consider myself an environmentalist as well. I do not feel I am damaging the environment by driving trails. I further believe that since people enjoy four-wheeling, that leads them to care about the land and be MORE protective of it. Think about it, if you had no recreation oportunities on public lands, how much less would you care about them?

 

[Samuraiman]

Comment

Well I agree with most. I feel that people for the most part respect and enjoy being in the outdoors, and the attitude and care towards the enviroment have changed drastically in recent years. Dumping trashing and shooting everything up in the county (washington) has seemed to diminish in years past. As well as more groups cleaning up and self policing there areas'. But extreme people that are wacked who want everything closed, some of which work for the the BLM, just to say if it's closed we won't have to deal with recreationalists. Anywho as far as not buying from a business that doesn't support your sport is absolutely fair. Why buy your kids alcohol if you don't want them drinking it and why buy HAMBURGERS FROM Mc Donalds if you like your big fat semi auto guns and your 20 round clips for your Sig 45. the end

 

[Tacoma]

Hmm.

I have NEVER seen a so-called "environmentalist" doing any trailwork or cleaning up. However, I have seen and helped many 4wd'ers, MTB'ers, and ATV'ers. Now why is that? Oh, hiking has no impact, I forgot. Whatever. The earth is not so fragile that we are really going to do much. Responsible use? There is nothing wrong with that.

ok. My BP is rising a little, and it's my birthday damnit. Preaching to the choir anyway! That's a good thing!

 

[DrMoab]

Old thread I know....however I have to work all night tomorrow and need to stay up tonight so...here is my thoughts


Whats wrong with being radical? I think this is the reason we have lost so much to begin with. You know the squeaky wheel?
These groups( SUWA,Sierra Club, etc) are radical and because of this they get listened to.
Driving truck for a livving I have had a lot of time to think about these things. I always ask myself. Why are we not out protesting,picketing,yelling and screaming and generally getting our cause out and being heard?

Some would say that its because we are more sane then they are and some would say that this would give us more of a bad name then we all ready have but I don't think it would. The reason is the general public falls closer to our side of things then the other side.

We just have to be smarter then them and get noisy and loud and do it in a way that is responcible and respectful.

Why are we not picketing REI and other pro anti-access buisness?

I hope no one takes offence to this and I must say I am a pot calling all you kettles black because I am no different but I cruise this site and others and all I ever see is "this trail is closing....write your congressman now!"
We write letters,we send money to pro-access groups but why are we not out in front of the BLM,Forest service,capital with signs and crowds and such making people hear our cause?

Why are we not sitting in front of Wal-Mart with petition drives and gathering people signatures?

SUWA wonders around with people knocking on doors. Why aren't we?

I really think it could be done in an informative way without upsetting or offending people (except for the greenies).

But Most of all EZ....whats wrong with being radical or extremist of you are doing so for the things you love?

If one of your kids was in danger because of something one of these groups were doing you would be as extreme as you could to protect them.

I think we should try to protect our right to access public lands in just the same way.