Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher

[Herzog]

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/armed-feds-prepare-showdown-nevada-cattle-rancher

Ruby Ridge-style standoff brewing as Bundy says he is prepared to be killed

A Ruby Ridge-style standoff is brewing in Nevada, where dozens of armed federal agents are closing in on cattle rancher Cliven Bundy over claims that Bundy has allowed his cows to graze illegally on government land, endangering a protected species of tortoise.

Vowing to take a stand for, “your liberty and freedom,” Bundy says he is prepared to be killed as authorities surround a 600,000 acre section of public land as a result of Bundy violating a 1993 Bureau of Land Management ruling which changed grazing rights in order to protect the endangered desert tortoise.

“With all these rangers and all this force that is out here, they are only after one man right now. They are after Cliven Bundy. Whether they want to incarcerate me or whether they want to shoot me in the back, they are after me. But that is not all that is at stake here. Your liberty and freedom is at stake,” Bundy said.

Bundy’s refusal to recognize federal authority over the land under dispute and his failure to pay tens of thousands of dollars in grazing fees stems from his assertion that his family’s history trumps bureaucracy.

“My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley ever since 1877. All these rights I claim have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and water. I have been here longer. My rights are before the BLM even existed,” Bundy said.

Accusing feds of seizing Nevada’s sovereignty, Bundy says he has fought the battle legally, through the media, and is now gearing up to fight it physically.

“Armed agents are forming a a military-like staging area to prevent anyone from approaching the area,” writes Mike Paczesny.

Bundy asserts that his case is emblematic of how America has been transformed into a “police state,” labeling the government’s actions “pathetic”.

Hundreds of federal officials, aided by helicopters, low flying aircraft and hired cowboys, began rounding up Bundy’s cattle on Saturday as Bundy accused them of “trespassing,” adding that the impact will only serve to raise beef prices for residents of Las Vegas 80 miles away.

Feds postponed a similar raid in 2012 over fears the action would spur violence. Bundy has drawn a lot of support from the local community and protesters are heading to the area to demand authorities back off. Officials have created a taped off “First Amendment Area” where demonstrators can voice their concerns. A sign placed inside the area reads “Welcome to Amerika – Wake Up” alongside a hammer and sickle logo.

“The rights were created for us,” Bundy told the Las Vegas Review Journal. “I have the right to use the forage. I have water rights. I have access rights. I have range improvement rights, and I claim all the other rights that the citizens of Nevada have, whether it’s to camp, to fish or to go off road.”

Addressing the justification of seizing the cattle to protect a species of tortoise, Bundy stated, “I’ll never get it. If it weren’t for our cattle, there’d be more brush fires out here. The tortoises eat the cow manure, too. It’s filled with protein.”

The standoff has echoes of the 1992 Ruby Ridge incident, during which Randy Weaver, accused of selling an ATF agent two illegal sawed-off shotguns, became embroiled in a tragic confrontation with the the United States Marshals Service (USMS) and the FBI, resulting in the death of Weaver’s son Sammy, his wife Vicki, and Deputy U.S. Marshal William Francis Degan.

The story also brings back memories of New Hampshire couple Ed and Elaine Brown, who were involved in a nine month standoff with armed law enforcement and feds as a result of their refusal to pay income tax. The Browns were later convicted of “plotting to kill federal agents” because of their refusal to surrender and were both given de facto life sentences.

In a series of YouTube videos, Cliven Bundy and his wife outline the background behind their decision to take a stand against the feds, arguing that their fight is a constitutionally-driven line in the sand to push back against the usurpation of big government.

Anybody hear about this?

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Saw it on the news Sunday, pretty crazy stuff.

 

[rholbrook]

The Dersert Tortoise isn't even indigenous to the Virgin River Drainage.

 

[sawtooth4x4]

The point I think everyone is missing is the guy has been illegally grazing his cattle on the land. The dude has been doing what ever he wants, hasn't paid grazing fees. Dude owes millions of dollars in fees and fines. Lock him up.

Cattle destroy land, they over graze. Its a very common problem in Wyoming. Drives me crazy. Ranchers don't pay shite to use the land, and then leave it looking like shite.

And everyone freaks out about people 4 wheeling on roads and trails

 

[Houndoc]

The point I think everyone is missing is the guy has been illegally grazing his cattle on the land. The dude has been doing what ever he wants, hasn't paid grazing fees. Dude owes millions of dollars in fees and fines. Lock him up.

Cattle destroy land, they over graze. Its a very common problem in Wyoming. Drives me crazy. Ranchers don't pay shite to use the land, and then leave it looking like shite.

And everyone freaks out about people 4 wheeling on roads and trails

I am pro-rancher, including the grazing of cattle on public land. If grazing allotments are followed, they do not overgraze or damage the land. There is a lot of science behind ranching and range land management.

However, someone like this is an entirely different story. What he is doing is illegal- he just does it because he wants to. I have nothing against him being stopped.

Besides the environmental damage, he gives ranchers a bad name. That should be a crime in and of itself.

 

[MattL]

Crock of crack. Best of luck old guy.
This is probably because of some pencil pusher having a power woodie at his desk.

 

[bryson]

I am pro-rancher, including the grazing of cattle on public land. If grazing allotments are followed, they do not overgraze or damage the land. There is a lot of science behind ranching and range land management.

However, someone like this is an entirely different story. What he is doing is illegal- he just does it because he wants to. I have nothing against him being stopped.

Besides the environmental damage, he gives ranchers a bad name. That should be a crime in and of itself.

With my limited knowledge on the situation (just this article and some random spouting of crap from co-workers,) I agree.

 

[Skylinerider]

If he hasn't paid for his grazing permits, he has no business grazing there. From the multiple news stories I've read on this, the BLM has tried repeatedly to work with this rancher, but Mr. Bundy refuses. This has been going on for over 20 years. He sounds like an arrogant, greedy rancher who thinks he's above the rules.

 

[Herzog]

It's an interesting situation. He claims his family has been on that land and grazing since before the state handed over the land to the fed. Not that he has an legal leeway or anything, but more of a ask "why" situation. I guess it's interesting to me because he's fighting against an abusive and corrupt system all on his own, no matter if he's arrogant or and old fool (or not).

I mean really, snipers and military like force for this one old guy? Really?

 

[Herzog]

Cattle destroy land, they over graze. Its a very common problem in Wyoming. Drives me crazy. Ranchers don't pay shite to use the land, and then leave it looking like shite.

And everyone freaks out about people 4 wheeling on roads and trails

But everybody loves a juicy steak.

 

[Skylinerider]

It's an interesting situation. He claims his family has been on that land and grazing since before the state handed over the land to the fed. Not that he has an legal leeway or anything, but more of a ask "why" situation.

Reminds me of the Native Americans

 

[Unimog]

Definitely two sides to this one, if not more - I've been following this for a while. I've no problem with using public land for grazing as long as the grazer's are paying for the right and helping maintain the public land. It is interesting from our point of view because the crux of his claim is that the federal government has no right over local land, which is a hotly discussed topic among our members. He was originally asked to leave some of the longtime-used lands because of the endangered species act (the desert tortoise), which could also be labeled an issue with varying views. I personally think he should pull his cattle off public land and dispute the issue in a legal manner. He claims just the opposite - he claims that when they round them up, he will just return them to same land. All that being said, I definitely understand his position.

All of the legal tactics, military/police involvement, and even closing the lands in question to the public for the time being is all an effort to make sure innocent people don't get injured in some kind of Waco standoff in the high desert. Never a dull moment.

 

[rockdog]

I don't think this is an over reaction on the Feds part. I'm old enough to remember a similar situation in Kamas years ago. The guy I worked for's dad was the school superintendent at the time. He wanted a guy who was home schooling his kids to just show they were being taught anything at all. (The law forced him to make the call) Most people had no idea the guy thought he was a prophet of god and was very vocal about what he would do. ( sounds vaguely like this guy) He shot at the sheriff and it turned into a situation just like this. Fred House (a Leo ) lost his life.
I don't think for one minute the guy has a right to graze his cattle for free. I am pro rancher and think most ranchers know their very livelihood is at stake if they don't take care of the land they graze their cows on.

 

[JL Rockies]

The point I think everyone is missing is the guy has been illegally grazing his cattle on the land. The dude has been doing what ever he wants, hasn't paid grazing fees. Dude owes millions of dollars in fees and fines. Lock him up.

Cattle destroy land, they over graze. Its a very common problem in Wyoming. Drives me crazy. Ranchers don't pay shite to use the land, and then leave it looking like shite.

And everyone freaks out about people 4 wheeling on roads and trails

The point you may be missing is some people (founding fathers included) hold the Federal Government to be... well... federal. The Constitution is pretty clear on federal ownership of land.... and killing citizens.


Kooler than Mudd.

 

[Rot Box]

This is the part I'm struggling with: http://www.mynews3.com/content/news...spute-arrested-by/saisWvjFk0uuzq70psP4Zw.cspx

"He was there to do some filming when about 11 federal agents pulled up and arrested him," Clive Bundy told News 3. "They said he was outside of the First Amendment area and they took him down. We don't know where he is now."

How is it possible to be "outside a first amendment area" on BLM land? Does anyone else see a problem here or am I missing something..

 

[sawtooth4x4]

Tell that to the Native Americans. Like the government has never killed anyone on "Federal Land". Even if it was indeed "Your" land, you still have to pay the government to have "Your" land.

I don't have anything against ranchers usually. Just dumb asses who think they can do whatever they want while the rest of us have to pay. I don't give a crap how long this guy thinks he has been on the land. He still uses public government roads and many other government benefits. Kick his ass off. He isn't following the rules, to damn bad. Why should he get a pass?

The point you may be missing is some people (founding fathers included) hold the Federal Government to be... well... federal. The Constitution is pretty clear on federal ownership of land.... and killing citizens.


Kooler than Mudd.

 

[Herzog]

This is the part I'm struggling with: http://www.mynews3.com/content/news...spute-arrested-by/saisWvjFk0uuzq70psP4Zw.cspx

"He was there to do some filming when about 11 federal agents pulled up and arrested him," Clive Bundy told News 3. "They said he was outside of the First Amendment area and they took him down. We don't know where he is now."

How is it possible to be "outside a first amendment area" on BLM land? Does anyone else see a problem here or am I missing something..

Yep... I have a pretty big problem with that.

 

[DAA]

I don't know nearly enough to form a meaningful opinion.

But my gut, just on GP, I'm not inclined to take the bureaucrats at their word and even less inclined to take the bureaucrat version promulgated by the media at face value. My life experience tells me that there is always a helluva lot more to the story than the part they are telling you. Never mind that the part they are telling might even be false.

Like I said, I don't know enough to judge the man. Could be he is in the right, but on the wrong side of the bureaucracy. Happens every day. Or maybe he's just a dickweed that deserves to be punished. That happens every day too. I don't know.

My gut reaction though, is I want to be on his side. I relate with his quoted statements in the brief blurbs I've read. I don't relate with the BLM... I strongly disaprove of some of the actions already taken by the gov't. It's police state bullshit. Even if the guy is guilty of everything they are smearing him with in the pre-action, prepatory PR campaign currently underway. Does not need to be done this way. And frankly, some of the strongest opinions I've read in this thread against Mr. Bundy, sound exactly like SUWA complaining about me and my lifestyle. I mean, to a TEE. Just replace offroad enthusiast, hunter and liberty oriented individual for "rancher".

I'm not on his side though. Just not informed enough. I don't like the smell of the way the operation is being conducted against him though. Very much including the public relations smear tactics being used to paint the guy a turd just in case his house burns down on accident and everyone in it dies.

- DAA

 

[Kevin B.]

I'm inclined to think the gov't is in the wrong just because of the way they're approaching the whole thing.

If he IS a loony with no right whatsoever to graze his cattle where he is (and I don't know if he is or isn't), then seize the cattle, auction them off, and bill him for the costs. If he doesn't pay, garnish his income. But there's no need for snipers and tear gas over what amounts to a boundary dispute. But the way Uncle Sam is coming down on him makes me think that somebody overreached and is trying to cover their asses with this Ruby Ridge act.

 

[mesha]

I'm inclined to think the gov't is in the wrong just because of the way they're approaching the whole thing.

If he IS a loony with no right whatsoever to graze his cattle where he is (and I don't know if he is or isn't), then seize the cattle, auction them off, and bill him for the costs. If he doesn't pay, garnish his income. But there's no need for snipers and tear gas over what amounts to a boundary dispute. But the way Uncle Sam is coming down on him makes me think that somebody overreached and is trying to cover their asses with this Ruby Ridge act.

The government doesn't care if he grazes his cattle in a no graze zone. They care that he isn't paying the fines

I figure if he wants to break the law and won't pay his fines then they need to round up his cattle when he grazes there and do what you said, auction them off. Eventually it won't be worth it to him to keep grazing there. The government gets its money and he will go away. Shooting him seems a little too much.