Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher

ID Bronco

Registered User
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
This is the part I'm struggling with: http://www.mynews3.com/content/news...spute-arrested-by/saisWvjFk0uuzq70psP4Zw.cspx

"He was there to do some filming when about 11 federal agents pulled up and arrested him," Clive Bundy told News 3. "They said he was outside of the First Amendment area and they took him down. We don't know where he is now."

How is it possible to be "outside a first amendment area" on BLM land? Does anyone else see a problem here or am I missing something..


I have a major problem with it too!

I wrote a long response and it timed out as I worked so here is my condensed version: DAA has it about nailed the way I do. The cowboy in me wants to cheer him on in his battle! The Govt. and media lie everyday and misinform on purpose so I believe almost zero of what is reported. Killing him is not the answer and that's what they are setting up to do. Making him look like a loony, then demonizing him so no one cares when it happens. Everyone thinks, "he deserved it"

I studied Randy Weaver a little and I believe that was a really bad deal. Three dead because of a hacksaw. (sawed off shotgun sales) It's a shame.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Tell that to the Native Americans.
Tell what to native Americans? They already know that the Fed is a land grabbing organization that cannot be trusted.


Like the government has never killed anyone on "Federal Land".
I'll take missing the point for $200 Alex

Even if it was indeed "Your" land, you still have to pay the government to have "Your" land.
What?

He still uses public government roads and many other government benefits.
"You didn't build that" - President Obama

HeKick his ass off. He isn't following the rules, to damn bad. Why should he get a pass?
Whose rules? Government by consent of the governed. What country do you live in?



Kooler than Mudd.
 
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anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
This is is from an email a friend of one recieved from a family member.

Shiree Bundy Cox
I have had people ask me to explain my dad's stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it s in a nut shell. My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the servival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights. Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repaires and improvements of the ranches. My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these money's against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they're own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren't doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down. So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes. In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn't work, they used the indangered species card. You've already heard about the desert tortis. Well that didn't work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now their desperate. It's come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America. Now you may be saying," how sad, but what does this have to do with me?" Well, I'll tell you. They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again. Next, it's Utah's turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.
Then there's the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn't paid them, those cattle do belong to him. Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even exsisted. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad's signature on it. They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Aucion and sell them. All with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are?
Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
An interesting tactic...

My family has owned property in Draper long before Utah was a state (my grandfather^5's cabin is in Draper Park). How long do you think the State of Utah would let them stay in their houses when they didn't pay property tax? I can guarantee you they would have been homeless sooner than this man. ;)

I can see his argument of pre-dated use, but the land was legally transferred to the Fed and Utah's own constitution enabled it. If he wants to make a living via public lands, it's my opinion he needs to pay for it just like everybody else does. Ranchers, miners, oil extraction, railroads, quarries, tour guides, concert venues, etc... all do it. Should they not have to either?
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
When you look at the length of time this dispute has been going on, it makes it harder to claim that the government if over reacting (I have seen reports that court cases go back to early 1990s.)

I do not know the history of BLM and grazing fees, but I do find it questionable that the entire idea of fees was they were only to be used to help the rancher who paid them as the daughter claims. The historical claims are also of questionable validity in my mind.

Much has changed in the West since the 1800's, for good or bad. Land use laws have had to change as well. For the most part, I think the majority of people here would have to agree that most laws protecting public land is good. Do we want to go back to free for all mining claims without environmental protection, complete freedom of cross country travel, homesteading etc? The wild lands that we all enjoy would be lost pretty quick.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
An interesting tactic...

My family has owned property in Draper long before Utah was a state (my grandfather^5's cabin is in Draper Park). How long do you think the State of Utah would let them stay in their houses when they didn't pay property tax? I can guarantee you they would have been homeless sooner than this man. ;)

I can see his argument of pre-dated use, but the land was legally transferred to the Fed and Utah's own constitution enabled it. If he wants to make a living via public lands, it's my opinion he needs to pay for it just like everybody else does. Ranchers, miners, oil extraction, railroads, quarries, tour guides, concert venues, etc... all do it. Should they not have to either?

Doesn't matter. The Founding Fathers, who apparently must have been time traveling aliens that could see the future, wrote the Constitution so that it was the perfect document that could fit all events, at all times, no matter the circumstances. What was written 230 years ago fits todays situations perfectly. No need to take into consideration amendments or laws in the subsequent years. What was good enough 230 years ago is good enough today!
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Other things the Fed has done for my own good and betterment of society:

DEA - war on drugs
ATF- alcohol, tobacco and firearms are legal
Dept of education - our schools suck
Department of Energy - we buy our energy from people who hate us
DHS - the joining of departments too incompetent to protect the homeland
NSA - the Russians know everything thanks to them
TSA - has an image of my penis on file
Obamacare - no need to add
IRS - enforcing Obamacare
Social Security - an idea so good that it's forced upon me
NASA - our astronauts have to hitch a ride with people who hate us and we try to make Muslims not hate us by making them feel good about their contributions to math and science.



Kooler than Mudd.
 
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JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Doesn't matter. The Founding Fathers, who apparently must have been time traveling aliens that could see the future, wrote the Constitution so that it was the perfect document that could fit all events, at all times, no matter the circumstances. What was written 230 years ago fits todays situations perfectly. No need to take into consideration amendments or laws in the subsequent years. What was good enough 230 years ago is good enough today!

Stephen please. The founding fathers in their wisdom knew times would change which is why there is an amendment process.


Kooler than Mudd.
 

ozzy702

Well-Known Member
Location
Sandy, UT
Other things the Fed has done for my own good and betterment if society:

DEA - war on drugs
ATF- alcohol, tobacco and firearms are legal
Dept of education - our schools suck
Department of Energy - we buy our energy from people who hate us
DHS - the joining of departments too incompetent to protect the homeland
NSA - the Russians know everything thanks to them
TSA - has an image of my penis on file
Obamacare - no need to add
IRS - enforcing Obamacare
Social Security - an idea so good that it's forced upon me
NASA - our astronauts have to hitch a ride with people who hate us and we try to make Muslims not hate us by making them feel good about their contributions to math and science.



Kooler than Mudd.


Bingo. Absolutely not a fan of the Fed and the direction this nation has been taking and the sharp left hand turn it took after 9/11.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
*IRS - Forcing you (literally, with threat of imprisonment and or armed agents) to 'voluntarily' pay for all the "Great" ideas and laws listed above.

Yes. It's why it gives me pause when people I generally have respect for adopt a 'government is the solution' posture. I expect it from Floridians, but I hold Utahns in higher regard.


Kooler than Mudd.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Those park rangers seemed pretty heavily armed for a job that requires handing out firewood gathering tickets and cleaning up road kill... or whatever the eff a park ranger is supposed to do.


Kooler than Mudd.
 
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