Best GPS for backcountry/4x4 use?

[TRD270]

So I've been wavering on getting a tablet or a handheld GPS. I was looking at picking up a Garmin Oregon 650, and was about ready to pull the trigger. Then I did some training for DeLorme and discovered the new explorer. Its a hand held gps you can pay to be able to text with even in the back country or allow family or whom ever to live track where you are, those are paid services. It also has a SOS button if you get hurt or lost which is a free feature. It sends a signal to a monitoring company that can text you for further info, as well as get your location. The monitoring company can then forward this info to the local search and rescue teams. A very cool free feature.

I then discovered you can pair this to any smart phone or tablet similar to the Garmin Glo for an external gps antenna, along with that you can download their free app and cache free topo maps. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than the Garmin, even if you factor in getting a tablet to run a long side of it. And for solo trips which most of mine will be because of my crappy days off the SOS is a pretty cool feature.

I can get a pretty good deal on one through work so I think I might pick one up and report back

http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-info/inreach-explorer.php

 

[Caleb]

The delormes are pretty sweet. They've incorporated a lot of the features you get with a spot in to their gps. I used to be a dealer for them but am no longer. I think you'd be happy with a delorme.

 

[TRD270]

Further research into the Delorme, it appears it requires a monthly fee even if you don't want the messaging stuff. Also found out you can't upload maps to it, so the "map" screen is blank, only thing that shows up is your route and waypoints if you put them in there. I was okay with not having the map stuff, but I'm not entirely sure I want to pay a sub fee every month. If it were a couple bucks I'd probably do it, but its a little steep for me for the lowest available package.

I know you can tether the Garmin Oregon to other devices, but does anyone know if you can use it as an external gps antenna for other devices? I haven't been able to find an answer to that in my research.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

We rocked a Garmin Montana 650t up and down North, South & Central America utilizing non-proprietary mapping software for both on and off-road use. I've been extremely pleased. I have my iPad and that is workable option but less ideal for dust, moisture, theft, etc.

 

[DAA]

I have my iPad and that is workable option but less ideal for dust, moisture, theft, etc.

That's why I've never adopted a tablet solution. I just don't think any of the consumer electronic grade tablets would hold up very well to the use I'd put one through as a vehicle GPS.

And, I know I'm a dinosaur this way, but I way, way, WAY prefer actual dedicated buttons on a GPS, especially for vehicle use, as opposed to a touch screen. I can use the buttons on my old 276C pretty well by braille without taking my eyes off the trail and I like that. And every touch screen I do use outdoors, ends up a dust scratched, grease smeared, stained, ugly, hard to see mess sooner or later. My handheld Garmin Oregon only took about five trips to get such a badly scuffed and scratched screen that I have to avoid holding it the wrong way in certain light or I can't read it.

- DAA

 

[TRD270]

I ended up just buying a Garmin Glo should be here later this week. I plan to trial run on my phone. I picked up the little belt clip they have for it so I can still use my phone on hikes. If it works well I may pick up an ipad mini and a lifeproof case for vehicle navigation

 

[TRD270]

Well Delorme just released the Earthmate app for phones, I'll be heading down to the swell tomorrow to test this out with the new Glo. Have my old freebies on the phone still just in case, map is currently downloading 1.6 Gig for Utah and a generic world atlas. So far looks maps look good we'll see how they do out in the world

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?item=35408&section=10900

Comes with use of the website to create waypoints and routes, auto syncs to your phone from website as long as they are in service

 

[DAA]

I'm going to give it a try too. Backcountry Navigator kind of sucks...

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

A little update since I last posted.

I've been using trimble outdoor navigator for the past 2+ years and I couldn't be happier. I run it on my phone. In airplane mode, I can get 4-5 days of battery life out of my phone, and the GPS still works when in airplane mode (a big reason why I went with a Samsung phone). I pay the $3/month for elite membership and it's easy to use, syncs with my online account, and I have topo maps of all of utah on my phone when offline. I figure that at $36/year, I've got about 10 years before I've paid the price of a garmin, and iI don't have to worry about outdated maps or outdated hardware.

I've used it for the backcountry discovery route, for backpacking trips, and even on trips where there isn't a trail. It may not be for everyone, but I absolutely love it.

 

[DAA]

So, at first blush, the new Delorme app looks pretty good. They don't specifically state that the maps are vector, they just say something like "unique map format allows downloading more, faster...". But, they have to be some sort of vector format, because I downloaded 13 states last night and it's less that 2GB total. For comparison, I'm still working on getting just Utah downloaded for BCN and have about 15GB downloaded already.

Vector maps are a big step up over raster maps for how I use nav in a vehicle offroad.

The Delorme interface looks like it will be easier to use in a moving vehicle than either BCN or Gaia, too.

And, the trip data management tools appear to be vastly better than those other two apps. But, here too is my one grip so far, the data management is all done online, via Delorme's site, and is a subscription service. So, you have to pay every year to keep using it. That said, the tools for importing, exporting, creating and editing tracks and waypoints appear to be miles ahead of Backcountry Navigator or Gaia.

Long ago, I was a reseller for Delorme products. I had free access to every piece of hardware, software and printed map they made. At that time, even though I had all the stuff for free, I did not use it. Their maps were just too incomplete for my purposes - they simply did not show many of the dirt roads I use. I've only had time for a couple quick spot checks, but it appears they may have improved the completeness of their maps a great deal since then too. Like I said, only a couple of quick spot checks, but they are areas I know that Delorme didn't used to show all the dirt roads, but now they do.

Still need to use it in the real world, to know what I really think, but at first blush, it looks like it just might be The One, for now.

And... I feel like I'm over dosing on Android nav apps right now. I've been testing them almost non stop every day for a week now. But, Trimble sounds compelling, I'm adding it to my list for evaluation. I know Trimble has access to some really good maps, am definitely interested to see what their current Android solution looks like. Not sure how soon I'll get to it though, especially if this Delorme app actually works as well as I'm hoping.

- DAA

 

[TRD270]

Well back from the world with some experience with the Delorme. I have an iPhone 4S and borrowed the ladies iPad before I dove in and bought one myself.

Use on the iPad for in car navigation, worked great. Did some exploring down in the swell, driving on 24 saw a dirt road on the map and figured why not pulled over scanned around the map and determined I could get to my destination on the dirt so I dove in. Map was for the most part spot on. I was using the iPad paired with my Garmin Glo. Roads were easy to see and follow, wish I had a mount but had to test before I invested the money.

I then hiked Little Wild Horse / Bell Canyon loop and used my iPhone to navigate (though it really wasn't needed). I again used the Glo clipped onto my pack, as I started down the trail I tried to start the app and it kept crashing. I got frustrated and decided to chuck the phone in my pocket and press on. About 1.5 miles in I decided to try again once I got out of the slot canyon, it again crashed a few times but finally started up and stayed up. I turned on the tracking and proceeded down the trail. About 3 hours of run time and I had the tracking feature on it used about 15% of my battery, some of this usage was from taking photo's and video.

Now newer devices should not see as much battery drain, my phone is pushing 5 years old and I burn about 20% of my battery playing any game on my phone for 10 min so I'd say the battery usage was minimal. Second the crashing issue i'd also have to attribute to the age of my phone, i'm running about a generation and a half old iOS due to the age of my phone. Most apps are optimized for the latest and greatest iOS and I actually experience crashing quite often even with the simplest apps so don't let that scare you.

Overall i'm very happy with the purchase, after purchasing I discovered the yearly subscription as Dave mentioned above but its not required to use the app only if you want to plot out stuff on the website. (And you get a year of the service with the initial purchase)

Also the tracking auto synced to my account once both devices were back in service. They show distance, fastest speed, average speed, trip time and time moving. Only thing I wished this part had was elevation gain/loss for the hiking aspect no big deal though

 

[DAA]

I looked at the Trimble app, but didn't buy it. Looks very similar to Delorme for features, but uses the same-old-same-old tired azz raster maps that BCN uses that I'm getting sick and tired of downloading. Have about half of Utah and less than half of Nevada downloaded now, and am well over 20GB. It seems like BCN is throttling me or something too. The first 1-2GB I download from them every day only takes a couple hours. The next 1-2GB I just have to let it go overnight - it takes FOREVER.

And that's just the Accuterra maps. I want the CalTopo's too for a lot of areas. I'm going to be downloading for hours, every day, for a couple more weeks, at least. Just to get Utah and half of Nevada.

Delorme, I downloaded the entire western US in a couple hours (once I figured out why my device was killing the download...).

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

it sounds like delorme's maps are pretty cool.

For me, the size of the maps is a non-issue. I download it once (from my computer, not my phone), save it to a 32gb sd card, then pop it in my phone. Done. It took some time the first time I downloaded it, but I haven't had to do any downloading in 2 years. I love the detail on the trimble topo maps. I can't find a better map of AF canyon than the ones I get on Trimble. Plus trimble has an overlay where I can see who owns the land. Makes it real handy when I need to verify that I'm on BLM land before camping.


It sounds like Delorme has a cool map format. I'll have to check it out. Small file sizes never hurt.

 

[DAA]

Honestly, at this point, I'm mildly regretting that I didn't just buy a Garmin Montana and be done with all this mess. The only reason I didn't, was cost. But, factor in my time, which I value very highly, and using Android is costing me a lot more. Add in, the uncertainty of how well a consumer electronics grade tablet is going to hold up to my use, with all the dust, vibration, temperature extremes and moisture, and, well, I dunno... Kinda wish I'd have just spent the money on a real GPS that would have done everything I want exactly the way I like, right out of the box, and not had to dick around with any of this crap at all.

- DAA

 

[TRD270]

Do they make a life proof case for the tablet you bought? They also have a android based I believe its call the Montera now. Its even bigger than the Montana and can run any android app, pretty pricey though

 

[DAA]

No Lifeproof for it, not that I've seen anyway - all I've seen is Samsung phone cases from them, nothing for Samsung tablets? I haven't looked real hard though, might have that wrong.

There's an Otterbox Defender that fits it, for $43 on Amazon, might buy it eventually. Would like an opportunity to check how it works with my vehicle mounting solution first though. I do like the Ram X-Grip mount. Would probably fit fine with the case on it?

I have a solid base ordered for that mount, too, BTW. Going to bolt it where that old Garmin mount is on the dashboard in the picture. The suction cup actually worked perfect on my Maze trip last week, didn't move at all the whole time. But I'd rather have a solid mount. Will still use the suction cup to mount it in my buddies trucks though.

- DAA

 

[CobraNutt]

Dave, have you looked into the Garmin Nuvi 2789LMT? I've had good luck with all my Garmin GPS products over the years...no issues at all. This one is a 7" screen...decent size. I'd probably pick one up if I didn't already have my other fairly new Nuvi.

 

[DAA]

My wife has had several Nuvi's. None of hers would easily load topos. Some of the Nuvi's do though, that might be one of them? I have no need for any of the street nav features.

The reason she has had several though, is none of them have lasted more than two or three years. The ones she has had, at least, have not been very durable.

- DAA

 

[DAA]

So, just a brief update on my experience with the Delorme android app so far...

Tried using it this week on a trip in Wyoming. But... The maps showed almost none of the dirt roads in the area I was. That was the problem I had with Delorme products years ago - their maps always sucked in the completeness category. I think it's better now in some areas than it used to be, but the app was basically worthless for me this week.

And, for whatever reason, on my device at least, the app lets the screen go to sleep. Which no other nav app I have used does, and that was kind of a PITA.

Those two issues aside, Delorme would otherwise be probably my favorite Android nav app so far (I used BCN this week too, I hate that app...). The screen sleep issue is annoying, but can be dealt with. The lack of accurate dirt road detail in the maps is a 100% deal killing kiss of death though, renders the app 100% useless, to me, for those areas. I'm still going to try it again in other areas, hoping for better map coverage than I saw this weekend.

Think next time out, I'm going to give Gaia another shot. The BCN UI just sucks balls for offroad use, the more I use it, the more I hate it.

- DAA

 

[DAA]

A P.S...

My buddies Garmin showed all the roads we were on this week, that Delorme doesn't show... BCN shows them too.

- DAA