book time to replace axle seals?

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
I'm curious if anyone can tell me the book time to replace the front inner axle seals in a 78-79 Ford F150/Bronco D44. My seals are leaking, and it seems I am having trouble getting a book time out of people. These are the seals in the diff that require removing the carrier.
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Just a guess, but I don't see how it would take a shop longer than 2 hours per side, so 4 hours total. I'm not sure if flat rate books cover older vehicles so I can see how it would be hard to get a number.
 

DAA

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
^^^ Sounds about right to me. I did them on my Jeep TJ D44 a couple of weeks ago, took me about five hours total, by myself, in no hurry. That was broken up over a few days though, dealing with some nerve damage in my back and could only stand to work on it for a little bit at a time. Healthy, in one session, I'm sure I could do them in four hours or less. There's a lot to take apart but it's all pretty easy. The seals themselves are super easy to do once you get to them.

- DAA
 

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
Flat rate is about 5 hours total. Most front axles call for the same amount.

WOW....ok. I guess the 4 hours isn't that far off....I was thinking it was going to be 2-2.5 I though it's about 1.5 per side, and figured since you basically have to pull the carrier, that the 2nd would be maybe an additional 1 hour on the high end.
 

skippy

Pretend Fabricator
Location
Tooele
I will do it for 2 hours pay plus cost of seals, I have a really hard time believeing it would take any reputable shop more than 2 hours to do both sides

If it does take that long they probably dont have the right tools to do the job....
 
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Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
I will do it for 2 hours pay plus cost of seals, I have a really hard time believeing it would take any reputable shop more than 2 hours to do both sides

If it does take that long they probably dont have the right tools to do the job....

Where is your shop located? I may take you up on this.
 

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
I will do it for 2 hours pay plus cost of seals, I have a really hard time believeing it would take any reputable shop more than 2 hours to do both sides

If it does take that long they probably dont have the right tools to do the job....

Agreed, I could do those in sub 2 hours and I'm out of practice. I think/know some shops will break down each part of a job and charge way more labor than they should or charge each side labor separately instead of the both sides labor. Glad to hear there are some honest auto techs still out there. I fixed a customers door the other night for free because she bought the vehicle from us and I felt bad she had a problem, the shop she took it to first wanted $100 to even look at it.. Took me 5 min to pull the door panel and replace a clip. I know people have to make a living but how can they live with themselves.
 

Toad

Well-Known Member
Location
Millville(logan)
I will do it for 2 hours pay plus cost of seals, I have a really hard time believeing it would take any reputable shop more than 2 hours to do both sides

If it does take that long they probably dont have the right tools to do the job....

Because any reputable shop uses industry standard flat rate. Protects the customer from being over charge. Protects the technician from losing his ass when he is paid flat rate. Yes any good tech will beat flat rate on a job like this.
 

Bart

Registered User
Location
Arm Utah
Took me all 5 hours to do mine over the weekend, but I'm very S L O Wwwwwww. I also had lots of other issues I was dealing with at the same time.
 

skippy

Pretend Fabricator
Location
Tooele
Because any reputable shop uses industry standard flat rate. Protects the customer from being over charge. Protects the technician from losing his ass when he is paid flat rate. Yes any good tech will beat flat rate on a job like this.

How does Charging a customer 4 hours for a 2 hour job protect the customer from being over charged? That is the exact definition of over charging. Not all reputable shops use flat rate and book rate jobs just the big chains and dealers.... And they are hardly reputable.
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Because even the best techs have bad days or things just don't go right. Ie a spindle that has 20 years of rust weld on it won't just fall off. If I agree to the price at four hours, it will be nice knowing that will still be my price 6 hours later. Or, Skippy, should he be able to charge you the six hours?
 

Toad

Well-Known Member
Location
Millville(logan)
Yep I got my tail kick by a alternator on a Kia/Hyundai last week. Flat Rate was only 1.5hours. Took me four. So can I bill her 4 hours? Cause that would have been awesome. If I can charge whatever I want I might as well start milking out every job and just bill them the time I have into it. Or I bust my butt, get more training, get better equipment so I can be faster and more efficient. Then I can beat flat rate and get more stuff done and make more money.
 
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neagtea

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
farmington
I will do it for 2 hours pay plus cost of seals, I have a really hard time believeing it would take any reputable shop more than 2 hours to do both sides

If it does take that long they probably dont have the right tools to do the job....

We usually did a full brg. pack at the same time.
 

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
I think the big problem with flat rate (and I actually generally agree with it) is that like much of this world, if it's not in the book people are clueless. Most places I checked didn't have any listing past early 80's so they couldn't even give me a figure. Add to it, that in reality, some jobs are "built into" other jobs...yet shops will still charge the rate, which I find unethical. If a smaller job has to be done to finish a bigger job, many shops will still bill the time for the smaller job, even though, technically all the labor is being done on the larger job. For example...say on an engine, you have to remove the water pump to get to the timing belt.....many shops will say "now is a good time to replace the water pump" so you do....and then many shops will charge you book time for replacing the water pump on top of changing the timing belt, even though all the labor to change the water pump was required to do the timing belt....in essence, they are billing you twice for the same labor....where as it should be just get a different water pump to put in when it goes back together, rather then put the old one back in.

I really have no idea on the example, as I'm not familiar with internals of engines...but I've heard it a lot....and only a few shops I've ever contacted/dealt with have been upfront about "oh, well that labor to do YYY is already being done to do XXX, so it's no extra charge other then the part" Whereas I contact more shops that are "that'll be 4 hours for XXX and another 1.5 hours to do YYY"

As for my original question..I have no problem paying a "fair going rate" but I was curious, because I would assume that since it says 1.5-2/hrs a side, that if both sides were being done together, the labor involved would be double billed, or at least a good portion of it...since you have to get the carrier out to do just one side, why does it require paying to get the carrier out to do the other side as well?
 

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
As for my original question..I have no problem paying a "fair going rate" but I was curious, because I would assume that since it says 1.5-2/hrs a side, that if both sides were being done together, the labor involved would be double billed, or at least a good portion of it...since you have to get the carrier out to do just one side, why does it require paying to get the carrier out to do the other side as well?

In this example, 80% of the labor involved is disassembling the hubs/wheel hubs/spindles in order to get the axleshafts out. You can't remove the carrier without taking out both axleshafts, and you'd be ill-advised to replace just one of the axle seals while you're already there. SO, hopefully nobody would ever try to charge you for just one side. :) (which might be exactly what you're saying, just differently)
 

Toad

Well-Known Member
Location
Millville(logan)
The timing belt example is just a chicken shit way of ripping people off. Unfortunately it does happen. When I do a t belt job I just look up water pump R&R and bill that. Yes I could bill 1 hour for serp belt replacement(some cars have three belts), 3.5 hours for timing belt and another 4 hours four water pump. So that would be 8.5 hours labor billed for a 4 hour job. Yes that is robbery. If I was billing your axle seals I would bill you 5 hrs labor, 2 axle seals, 2 wheel bearing seals(wheel bearing pack), and we would also discuss spindle seals why we are in there. When I found out your axle shaft joints are bad I would call and discuss that with you or if you just want to do them lets make it happen. That is how I would take the approach on that job. The carrier has to come out to do one side or both sides.
 

UNSTUCK

But stuck more often.
Come on guys. A true "flat rater" could figure out how to swap out those seals without removing the carrier.
 
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