He's dead on that respectful recreation won't mess up Moab. Development already has caused loses. We've lost a lot of trails to money bagging investors. I do miss the Moab from 10 years ago (and longer). It's changed from that small town trail head HQ to a dispersed walmart atmosphere, except extremely over priced.
Booo! on Garfield County - "Deal aimed at paving famous Burr Trail switchbacks"
- Thread starter cruiseroutfit
- Start date
- Location
- Riverton, UT
Some time ago I wrote an article about the future of four wheeling and stated, "all you have to do is look at Europe and specifically England to see our future". I went on to state that all four wheeling was done on private land like BFE and MMSP or it was done on paved roads. I think that is out in the future for us but we need to be aware of things like "roads being paved" so it takes place far out in the future. Thanks to Kurt and RME for bringing this to the attention of those that use RME. U4WDA will spread the word as far as we can.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Jack, I've discussed this matter at length with Tacoma and would like to have U4's support if nothing else in the form of a letter to Garfield County that paving of our routes is just as tolerated as closing them, particularly when it serves of no public interest beyond tapping a market 'better' than our own. I'll be in touch on this.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
The fire is heating up!
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53296751-78/county-road-burr-paving.html.csp
Garfield County Engineer Brian B. Bremner:
"“We still have thousands of miles of roads in rural Utah where they could experience that” sense of adventure beyond the Burr Trail and Notom Road."
Wow, we have heard that story time and time again for the other roads people want us to be OK with losing no? And this from a counties that wants our support in helping them get RS2477 access to more of those "thousands of miles of roads in rural Utah".
"Fifty miles of the Burr Trail is now paved despite past legal battles, but 16 miles of it remains unpaved. Bremner said the county owns the switchbacks portion of the road and the land surrounding it."
Just because they ruing 50 miles of it doesn't mean I'm OK with the best 16 miles of it being paved. Again I give you American Fork Canyon, the Pony Express Trail, Prov Canyon, and any other road that the counties could want paved. Where is that group calling for 'zero tolerance' on lost access again? This is every bit as lost as a closed route, in fact as I've harped before I'd just assume see a route like this closed to motorized than paved.
Brian Bremner and Lee Davidson (SL Trib Journalist) are both on my to-call agenda for tomorrow.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53296751-78/county-road-burr-paving.html.csp
Garfield County Engineer Brian B. Bremner:
"“We still have thousands of miles of roads in rural Utah where they could experience that” sense of adventure beyond the Burr Trail and Notom Road."
Wow, we have heard that story time and time again for the other roads people want us to be OK with losing no? And this from a counties that wants our support in helping them get RS2477 access to more of those "thousands of miles of roads in rural Utah".
"Fifty miles of the Burr Trail is now paved despite past legal battles, but 16 miles of it remains unpaved. Bremner said the county owns the switchbacks portion of the road and the land surrounding it."
Just because they ruing 50 miles of it doesn't mean I'm OK with the best 16 miles of it being paved. Again I give you American Fork Canyon, the Pony Express Trail, Prov Canyon, and any other road that the counties could want paved. Where is that group calling for 'zero tolerance' on lost access again? This is every bit as lost as a closed route, in fact as I've harped before I'd just assume see a route like this closed to motorized than paved.
Brian Bremner and Lee Davidson (SL Trib Journalist) are both on my to-call agenda for tomorrow.
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
I am guessing you are referring to USA-All. Would you like me to put you on the agenda for our board meeting this Wednesday so that you can talk to us about this route? I am not personally familiar with the area you are talking about and could use a little more history and bacground on it.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
With all due respect, Usa-All should be talking to us about this, I'm assuming you (Usa-All) have far more interaction with Garfield County on that level than I do
This would rank as a top 10 Utah public land issue in my opinion. If its not on your (Usa-All's) radar then I'm not sure what I can brief you about? I don't know what 'history and background' you need beyond a county paving dirt roads? Is that ever acceptable in rural Utah locations devoid of an infrastructure requiring pavement? However I'm a softy and I like you so I'll oblige
The Burr Trail as well as the Bullfrog-Notom Road are major back-country routes, literally akin to Buckhorn Wash in your neck of the woods. The Burr Trail was once dirt all the way from Boulder (Town) Utah (on SR12) to its intersection with the Bullfrog-Notom Road. The Bullfrog-Notom Road is pretty much dirt, from Bullfrog, Utah (on SR276) to Notom just south of SR24. Over the years pavement has encroached on the ends of these routes more and more but the heart was still dirt. With the Notom to Sandy Ranch paving and Burr Trail Switchback paving its only a matter of time before they just finish off the last stretches and its now a shortcut to Bullfrog for motorhomes, boaters, semi trucks? Who knows? Not exactly the type of place I want to be riding my dirtbike or exploring in my 4x4. They are not technical routes and as they stand a passenger car can navigate them barring weather or washouts... so why the needed change? All questions I hope Bremner can settle. To be honest I'm more worried about what this will mean for other routes in Garfield County. If they can trade their federal funding (.85 cents on the dollar
) to get streamlined access to funds to pave their back-country routes, what president does this set for the other counties? What will this mean for the back country and solitude found in the Henry Mountains that will now be flanked on both sides by paved roads? Its very possible I'm being far to paranoid about what these paving projects mean to the remaining dirt routes in the area but I have my own zero tolerance when it comes to losing routes to pavement This is the Burr Trail:
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
Kurt, sorry it has taken so long for me to respond to this, I crashed out pretty early last night and was traveling back home today. I would encourage you to come to our board meeting tomorrow night at 6:30. It will be at the Western Inn in Spanish fork, just west of the Wingers on the Hwy 6 exit. With the legislative session starting next week, we will have a great opportunity to get in front of the elected state officials from Garfield County.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Wish I could make it, I've got another meeting tomorrow night I'm committed to. I do plan to present this to the U4 BOD for their support in drafting a letter to Garfield County on behalf of the 4x4 motorized community as well as an upcoming meeting with Alan Matheson (Gov. Herberts Environmental Advisor).
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
I will bring up the discussion for it to be looked into and have Mike get with the Garfield County legislators when the session starts next week.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Please do, I hope I don't stand along when I say that a paved route every bit as bad as a closed route to the motorized community even if its from a 'friendly county'.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Any word from the Usall BOD meeting?
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
It is tonight. Does that mean you were confused on the day and will be able to make it tonight?
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Unfortunately not, I have an other meeting tonight (last night was the Utah Gold Prospectors Assoc. tonight is Utah Treasure Hunters Assoc., both of which I'm active with). Keep me posted!
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
Talked to Mike at our meeting tonight and he just so happens to already be meeting with one of the Garfield County Comissioners tomorrow. I will give an update after I hear from Mike tomorrow.
Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
U4WDA will be drafting a letter soon on this issue, and I will be expressing my deep displeasure with this plan to pave a long-standing and, in my opinion, historically relevant dirt road.... I hope that Mike was vocal in his opposition to the paving plan.
Land-use groups have zero reason not to voice their objections to this kind of project. It's what we are here for-- at least U4WDA, since preservation of what I would call "heritage roads" (Burr Trail, PET, Buckhorn, etc) fits our ethos--and objection can be expressed without being jerks about it. Obviously, the counties have an entirely different set of priorities, and it's their right to do as they see fit with their roads-- but input from the users of their roads, and the decisions those users make about where they spend their money can and should influence the counties when it comes to projects like this. The Burr Trail is not a much-needed highway, power line project, etc. It can and, in my opinion, should be handled differently than they are doing at the moment.
As with all things dirt and dirt road, input from the offroad community is essential. As Minor Threat sang, STAND UP!!! AND BE COUNTED!!
Land-use groups have zero reason not to voice their objections to this kind of project. It's what we are here for-- at least U4WDA, since preservation of what I would call "heritage roads" (Burr Trail, PET, Buckhorn, etc) fits our ethos--and objection can be expressed without being jerks about it. Obviously, the counties have an entirely different set of priorities, and it's their right to do as they see fit with their roads-- but input from the users of their roads, and the decisions those users make about where they spend their money can and should influence the counties when it comes to projects like this. The Burr Trail is not a much-needed highway, power line project, etc. It can and, in my opinion, should be handled differently than they are doing at the moment.
As with all things dirt and dirt road, input from the offroad community is essential. As Minor Threat sang, STAND UP!!! AND BE COUNTED!!
scoutabout
None
Any update?
anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
The Garfield county commissioners were not at the meeting on Thursday. He put in a call to them on Friday but I have been out of cell reception since Friday afternoon and have not had a change to follow up yet.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
U4WDA will be drafting a letter soon on this issue, and I will be expressing my deep displeasure with this plan to pave a long-standing and, in my opinion, historically relevant dirt road.... I hope that Mike was vocal in his opposition to the paving plan.
Land-use groups have zero reason not to voice their objections to this kind of project. It's what we are here for-- at least U4WDA, since preservation of what I would call "heritage roads" (Burr Trail, PET, Buckhorn, etc) fits our ethos--and objection can be expressed without being jerks about it. Obviously, the counties have an entirely different set of priorities, and it's their right to do as they see fit with their roads-- but input from the users of their roads, and the decisions those users make about where they spend their money can and should influence the counties when it comes to projects like this. The Burr Trail is not a much-needed highway, power line project, etc. It can and, in my opinion, should be handled differently than they are doing at the moment.
As with all things dirt and dirt road, input from the offroad community is essential. As Minor Threat sang, STAND UP!!! AND BE COUNTED!!
Excited to hear U4WDA is going to voice their opinion and I fully agree you don't have to step on the toes to make your voice heard.
Sounds great, please keep me posted. I had a chance to talk with Brian Hawthorne @ BRC yesterday. He was around back when Garfield County was paving the top half of the Burr Trail and had some definite opinions about the situation. Needless to say I doubt he will be sending G-field County a note to not pave.
Tacoma summed it up nicely "Land-use groups have zero reason not to voice their objections to this kind of project", I would extend that to "OHV users have zero reason not to voice their objections to this kind of project". Opinions will obviously vary.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Meeting with Alan Matheson on Wednesday morning to discuss this and other issues. Alan is Governor Herberts Environmental adviser, hopefully he will have some good input on the situation? I will report back.
Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
Excellent. Should be illuminating, one way or the other.