- Location
- Sandy, Ut
And she'll show up to 7th grade with no freinds, bored, wearing the same blue skirt everyday and waiting for her dad to pick her up in front of the school while all of the other kids smoke on the way home
Can of worms: School Vouchers
- Thread starter mbryson
- Start date
And she'll show up to 7th grade with no freinds, bored, wearing the same blue skirt everyday and waiting for her dad to pick her up in front of the school while all of the other kids smoke on the way home
Brett
Meat-Hippy
- Location
- Salt Lake City Utah
And she'll show up to 7th grade with no freinds, bored, wearing the same blue skirt everyday and waiting for her dad to pick her up in front of the school while all of the other kids smoke on the way home
JPNGRL44
Unhealthy Obsession
- Location
- Stuck in Utah Valley
This is not public schools "failing" you this is the legislature of Utah failing you! If they would find a way to not just re-alocate funds but actually provide more funds for our schools, than the students wouldn't be learning "10 year old Garbage" !
wow. where to even start.
First of all, I was nearly forced into private school in 3rd grade. I thank my lucky stars every day that I was smart enough to tell my parents I didn't want to go. I went to underprivileged elementary and HS (Roosevelt and Granite (respectively)--my elementary didn't even have divided classrooms--3 classes per unit) and an over-privileged JR High (Evergreen). I knew many people that went to Roland Hall, Waterford, Realms, etc. The recurring theme with all of them was behavioral and identity issues that I can only assume resulted from unfair expectations and the inability to explore their own individuality with the forced conformity of private schools. Also, something that was extremely prevalent was drug use (fancy that, rich kids who rebel from their parents’ constant coercive control and pressure actually have money to afford drugs). A good friend of mine that I knew in the honors program in 7th grade transferred to Roland Hall. He was bottom quartile in the public honors program and became Roland Halls valedictorian. Also became one of the biggest pot-heads and druggies I've ever known but that’s not what our discussions is really about. My point is that things aren’t that rosy in the private education realm.
In all the extra curricular organizations that I was involved with--especially the ones with competitive events--rarely did a private school ever have kids that were on the same level. Sure, pure statistics can account for some of that--but if those kids were so much smarter and well prepared then they should have done better. Right? Even in college none of the private school kids were any better setup—sometimes worse because they weren’t able to learn in anything other than an ideal situation where the teacher was holding their hand for 40 minutes of a 50 minute class. Maybe it’s different in Ivy League—but I doubt it. If you even wanted to go so far as to classify Westminster as a private school and the U as public then the trend still stands—my involvement in PBL and DEX in college made it extremely clear that the education received at such a greater cost at Westminster wasn’t working miracles….but again off topic…
Bottom line, if you think the public school system failed you then you failed yourself. You're an excuse maker that is just looking for someone to forge a path in life for you. You didn’t excel in school or get great grades—great. Not everyone does, but can you say you wish you would have studied less? The one quality that your parents should have taught you at a young age and apparently didn't was ACCOUNTABILITY. Without a sense of personal accountability you are destined for mediocrity. Good parenting is a must and can supplement any and all deficiencies that even the most perfect school can and will lack. I didn’t come from money—and nobody in my family has EVER gone to college (my dad didn’t even finish HS). But I was taught that you have to work to get anywhere and the values I was taught at a young age allowed me to make the best of my opportunities.
Whoever it was who says that a bachelors degree won't pay for itself and that the only way to raise your social position is to get a masters is a complete idiot. YOU may have put yourself into a position where you couldn't pay your dues and get a higher paying job that requires a degree--or you could just be playing the public school-victim card again and making excuses why other people have prevented you from succeeding. Either way, education is NEVER a bad thing and its up to the individual to learn. The teacher can only do so much.
I can't even tell you how jealous I am that they teach a second language in elementary schools now. They will be so far ahead of the curve by the time they are older.
I could go on forever.....
You feel like you learn so much after school because you are given a chance to find practical application for the concepts you learned in school. Maybe practical application wasn't your bag--but don't blame that on your schooling. They don't teach that in private school either--and I would guess that by limiting the diversity of a private school you probably are less capable of dealing with unfamiliar things. Like the outside world perhaps.
This is getting way too personal for my taste
but I guess it is just the field my wife chose but yes a bachelors doesn't mean spit. But hard work is always the determining factor in America I agree with you.
Learning for the sake of the learning is always a good thing. I have always taken accountability for everything in my life probably the only one in my fam. So if I came off as not taking responsibility for idiotic teachers then whatever, did I work hard in school and felt like more could be done? Yes I always felt that way too say that American public educations systems are lagging behind the rest of the world I would say yes. No I didn't read that in Newsweek or watch it on Dateline I guess the advantage of knowing people that have live in different countries. As far as Rowland hall being druggie capital. Well aparently you don't know much about East High holy cow ten times worst than most private schools in Utah.As far as drugs are concerned the schools can only do so much I was offered drugs on a weekly basis from Junior High on (since you are naming schools I went to West Lake and Granger) I have never done drugs ever. I was an alcoholic in my senior and college years but I have stopped drinking on my own with only a couple AA meetings that freaked me out.
Apparently I come off as a regretful spiteful public school hater well I apologize but honestly I appreciate many teachers. I can think of about 8-9 that I had in my high school experience, grade school eh maybe three that I really appreciated. Junior high no one really cared about any students I felt. It is really lacking at West Lake I felt like they were just babysitters. They were as well that school is shocking. But whatever go Vouchers down with the PTA and whatever I can say that someone else at this point can infer was because of an abusive childhood with loser parents thanks for caring everyone. Oh yeah I forgot I didn't try enough and my failings as a child have led me to feel bitter and regretful today. Wow how did you all get that from all of my posts?
but I guess it is just the field my wife chose but yes a bachelors doesn't mean spit. But hard work is always the determining factor in America I agree with you.
Learning for the sake of the learning is always a good thing. I have always taken accountability for everything in my life probably the only one in my fam. So if I came off as not taking responsibility for idiotic teachers then whatever, did I work hard in school and felt like more could be done? Yes I always felt that way too say that American public educations systems are lagging behind the rest of the world I would say yes. No I didn't read that in Newsweek or watch it on Dateline I guess the advantage of knowing people that have live in different countries. As far as Rowland hall being druggie capital. Well aparently you don't know much about East High holy cow ten times worst than most private schools in Utah.As far as drugs are concerned the schools can only do so much I was offered drugs on a weekly basis from Junior High on (since you are naming schools I went to West Lake and Granger) I have never done drugs ever. I was an alcoholic in my senior and college years but I have stopped drinking on my own with only a couple AA meetings that freaked me out.
Apparently I come off as a regretful spiteful public school hater well I apologize but honestly I appreciate many teachers. I can think of about 8-9 that I had in my high school experience, grade school eh maybe three that I really appreciated. Junior high no one really cared about any students I felt. It is really lacking at West Lake I felt like they were just babysitters. They were as well that school is shocking. But whatever go Vouchers down with the PTA and whatever I can say that someone else at this point can infer was because of an abusive childhood with loser parents thanks for caring everyone.
Oh yeah I forgot I didn't try enough and my failings as a child have led me to feel bitter and regretful today. Wow how did you all get that from all of my posts?
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- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
WOW....
...you go to lunch and come back to check on your thread....
To me, this isn't a debate about how the school system could improve (not that it can't/shouldn't) just about the funding of a 'suspect' legislative act. I too am edumacated in public schools and can spell and usually complete a sentence.
I don't think our system can afford to lose ANY $,$$$ for vouchers. I think the 'oreo' concept is a little on the fuzzy side due to the assumption that a number of students will actually move on to other schools.
If anything in the public schools changes, I'd like to see the following:
1) class sizes smaller
2) parent/student review for a teacher factored into next years contract for the teacher? (oh, but now the parents will have to pay attention to education?) to REWARD good teaching rather than tenure (I'm SURE that'll piss some educators off, but I think good teachers should get paid on merit, not on tenure--the only way I can think of to measure that would be a student/parent review that maybe weighs 40% of the value of the 'raise', a school administrator that weighs 50% of the 'raise' and the other 10% to maybe peer review from other teachers within the same grade and/or discipline that know the teachers work)
I had some DAMN good teachers, a few good coaches and some other mediocre or worse teachers. I honestly learned something from every one. More from some than others. I wanted to teach, but couldn't talk my self into the lifestyle. If I won the lottery, I'd be a teacher. I think it would be cool to know that you are impacting kids lives in a positive way. ALL people that teach are making a sacrifice vs. what they could be making in the private sector if they truly know their subject matter/occupation. My hat's off to them.
I coasted through the educational process until I ran across a teacher in high school that actually taught me something through athletics. He's a COOL guy and I'll respect him for the rest of my life for what he helped me accomplish in athletics which transferred over to my academics in my Senior year of high school.
You guys can bag on the public educational system all you want. It can and does work. I'd like to see a way to make it easier for teachers to actually get paid what they are worth to society. The administrators I have a different opinion of, but I don't want to get into that in this discussion. I don't know that my solution above is 'right', but something similar could work to good teachers benefit.
I have a much different perspective now that I have kids in public and one in private school (lives with his mom). I'm choosing public over private for a lot of the reasons that Kurt alluded to. Even with the 10 year old texts, there's still a fair amount of value there in most disciplines. I don't think in the mid-80s anyone could have prepared me for how I make a living now. There's no text available at that point that will tell me what I need to know to do my job. I learned how to learn. I suck at the learning process unless it's converted to mechanical somehow, but I did learn how to learn and it works for me.
...you go to lunch and come back to check on your thread....
To me, this isn't a debate about how the school system could improve (not that it can't/shouldn't) just about the funding of a 'suspect' legislative act. I too am edumacated in public schools and can spell and usually complete a sentence.
I don't think our system can afford to lose ANY $,$$$ for vouchers. I think the 'oreo' concept is a little on the fuzzy side due to the assumption that a number of students will actually move on to other schools.
If anything in the public schools changes, I'd like to see the following:
1) class sizes smaller
2) parent/student review for a teacher factored into next years contract for the teacher? (oh, but now the parents will have to pay attention to education?) to REWARD good teaching rather than tenure (I'm SURE that'll piss some educators off, but I think good teachers should get paid on merit, not on tenure--the only way I can think of to measure that would be a student/parent review that maybe weighs 40% of the value of the 'raise', a school administrator that weighs 50% of the 'raise' and the other 10% to maybe peer review from other teachers within the same grade and/or discipline that know the teachers work)
I had some DAMN good teachers, a few good coaches and some other mediocre or worse teachers. I honestly learned something from every one. More from some than others. I wanted to teach, but couldn't talk my self into the lifestyle. If I won the lottery, I'd be a teacher. I think it would be cool to know that you are impacting kids lives in a positive way. ALL people that teach are making a sacrifice vs. what they could be making in the private sector if they truly know their subject matter/occupation. My hat's off to them.
I coasted through the educational process until I ran across a teacher in high school that actually taught me something through athletics. He's a COOL guy and I'll respect him for the rest of my life for what he helped me accomplish in athletics which transferred over to my academics in my Senior year of high school.
You guys can bag on the public educational system all you want. It can and does work. I'd like to see a way to make it easier for teachers to actually get paid what they are worth to society. The administrators I have a different opinion of, but I don't want to get into that in this discussion. I don't know that my solution above is 'right', but something similar could work to good teachers benefit.
I have a much different perspective now that I have kids in public and one in private school (lives with his mom). I'm choosing public over private for a lot of the reasons that Kurt alluded to. Even with the 10 year old texts, there's still a fair amount of value there in most disciplines. I don't think in the mid-80s anyone could have prepared me for how I make a living now. There's no text available at that point that will tell me what I need to know to do my job. I learned how to learn. I suck at the learning process unless it's converted to mechanical somehow, but I did learn how to learn and it works for me.
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And where do you think the pro voucher money is coming from? This is the broadest voucher program ever proposed and there are a lot states out there hoping it goes through.
Sorry to hear it Marc. Most of the kids I've dealt with from private schools are socially inept.
When it comes down to it, you get out of public education what you put into it. Both my wife and I work full time and my wife traveled at least 2 days a week most weeks, but that didn't stop my kids from needing help. As a parent I've spent lots of time with my kids helping them do their homework. Note, I didn't do their homework for them, which is faster, but I helped them pick up concepts that they were missing sp they could finish their homework. We really struggled with the math "Investigations" theory and did our own rhote memorization with multiplication and division work sheets.
The public system is far from perfect, but with what Utah pays teachers and the size of classes, it's amazing how good it is. My son will graduate from high school next year and receive his Associate Degree at the same time. He'll earn a scholarship by doing that. I got a call from his councelor the other day telling me that he's in the top 10% of his class and was eligible to take a national test for another scholarship. My daughter took national tests for her grade (8th) and scored extremely well, even perfect in some catagories.
I'm not bragging, well I guess I am, but I didn't exptect government help to get my kids through school. I did give them all the tools to excel in the school they were in, and demanded good grades and accountablility.
One more item, public schools have to be able to accomodate ever student. So, they have to have resources available if one of the private schools fail, to pick up the stranded students.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Medsker
2024 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 392
- Location
- Herriman, UT
My father in law who teaches at a private school had this to say on the subject (it's a little long but he makes some good points, especially the point about how if private school enrollment increased by 10-12% it wouldn't even be a blip on public schools)
The Hinckley Institute of Politics at the U recently did a study and concluded that although people are very polarized on the voucher issue, there are very few people on either side that understand it. This works in favor of the anit-voucher crowd because when confused, most people will opt for the status quo.
I wouldn't want to pretend that I am one of the select few who truly understands vouchers, but I do have a few observations from my own perspective.
In my education classes with other teachers from all over the state, whenever vouchers has come up there is an immediate, visceral reaction from the public school contingent. After several negative comments have been made, I will often say, "One thing is for sure, if vouchers pass life as we know it will end!" Inevitably they will all nod solemnly with nobody even picking up on the sarcasm.
Actually only about 4% of Utah's K-12 students attend private schools now. If that number were to increase by 10 or 20%, that is if it were to go up to 4.4% ore 4.8% it would be a huge boon for St. Joseph, but it would scarcely be a blip on the growth curve for public schools. So I feel the public school teachers are over-reacting. I don't really blame them. It is hard to take the voucher initiative as anything other than a negative review of their performance, so defensiveness is understandable.
On the other hand, should St. Joseph close (a very real possiblity) everyone of the displaced students that went to public school would cost the state an additional $7500. You might wonder why St. Joseph would close, and the simple answer is Charter Schools. Before Charter Schools were created people who were dissatisfied with public schools could either home school or go to a private school. Now they can go to charter schools, and the growth in charter schools has taken a chunk out of the enrollment of public schools. (Charter schools are paid for by the taxpayer just as are public schools.)
Slow but steady growth in enrollment at St. Joe's got us to the point in the elementary school where we were ready to make the transition from two 1st grade classes, 2nd grade classes, etc. to three of each. So we bought another school and moved the Kindergarten through 2nd grade classes over there. But then charter schools were started and the extra kids disappeared. We tried to hang on for a couple of years, but with no turnaround in sight we sold the other building at a loss and consolidated
back to the two campuses we have now. Too bad, St. Joseph High School is just a little too small and it would have really made things easier if we could have kept the students. In fact, St. Joseph High School has never been in the black since I've been there. We've always lost money -- sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Hence the repeated threats to close us down.
One thing that confuses me is the persistent drumbeat that private schools are not accountable. St. Joseph is an accredited high school. We are accredited by the Northwestern accreditation authority. To be accredited, we have to have a library with librarian and a certified guidance counselor on staff. I mention these two positions, because under the law establishing Charter Schools, Charter Schools do not have to staff these two positions.
When we give out a High School diploma it is recognized by the state of Utah. That means we have to fill all the same science, math, English, etc. requirements that public high schools fill.
It is true that we can have some teachers on staff who are not licensed (currently just one, our Spanish teacher who is a native Columbian and who has been honored with the teacher of the year award a couple of times), but under the accreditation rules, schools are allowed some latitude in having a few unlicensed teachers or teachers that are teaching out of their
specialty. Even when I was unlicensed, I was listed as "highly qualified" for the purposes of No Child Left Behind because I was in the ARL program.
As far as the religion goes, I would say St. Joseph is no more slanted toward the Catholic religion than public schools in Utah are slanted toward the LDS religion. Kids have one class a day in theology and the rest of the day there isn't too much reference to religion. Just like Mormon kids go to seminary one period a day and the rest of the day have largely LDS teachers. Mormons who want their kid to have some religious instruction to accompany their education should be sympathetic to other faiths that want the same thing.
From the legislature's standpoint it's about money. Education expenditures make up the biggest part of the state's budget. A Utah State University study of tuition tax credits estimated the state could save between $343 million and $1.9 billion over a 14 year period. That is not chump change. With the huge river of money pouring into education, the legislature would be irresponsible if they didn't investigate opportunities for savings or greater efficiency. Right now, there is no indication that the 4% of students in private school are anything other than good citizens and an asset to the country. If private school enrollment were to somehow rise
dramatically to 5% of the population I doubt that situation would change. Private graduates would still be good citizens. However, if vouchers somehow leads to private schools turning out sociopaths, a future legislature could repeal vouchers or modify them in some way to make them more fair and efficient. But if we do nothing, we'll learn nothing.
I'm in favor of giving it a shot. But then I'm biased. It might save my job.
The Hinckley Institute of Politics at the U recently did a study and concluded that although people are very polarized on the voucher issue, there are very few people on either side that understand it. This works in favor of the anit-voucher crowd because when confused, most people will opt for the status quo.
I wouldn't want to pretend that I am one of the select few who truly understands vouchers, but I do have a few observations from my own perspective.
In my education classes with other teachers from all over the state, whenever vouchers has come up there is an immediate, visceral reaction from the public school contingent. After several negative comments have been made, I will often say, "One thing is for sure, if vouchers pass life as we know it will end!" Inevitably they will all nod solemnly with nobody even picking up on the sarcasm.
Actually only about 4% of Utah's K-12 students attend private schools now. If that number were to increase by 10 or 20%, that is if it were to go up to 4.4% ore 4.8% it would be a huge boon for St. Joseph, but it would scarcely be a blip on the growth curve for public schools. So I feel the public school teachers are over-reacting. I don't really blame them. It is hard to take the voucher initiative as anything other than a negative review of their performance, so defensiveness is understandable.
On the other hand, should St. Joseph close (a very real possiblity) everyone of the displaced students that went to public school would cost the state an additional $7500. You might wonder why St. Joseph would close, and the simple answer is Charter Schools. Before Charter Schools were created people who were dissatisfied with public schools could either home school or go to a private school. Now they can go to charter schools, and the growth in charter schools has taken a chunk out of the enrollment of public schools. (Charter schools are paid for by the taxpayer just as are public schools.)
Slow but steady growth in enrollment at St. Joe's got us to the point in the elementary school where we were ready to make the transition from two 1st grade classes, 2nd grade classes, etc. to three of each. So we bought another school and moved the Kindergarten through 2nd grade classes over there. But then charter schools were started and the extra kids disappeared. We tried to hang on for a couple of years, but with no turnaround in sight we sold the other building at a loss and consolidated
back to the two campuses we have now. Too bad, St. Joseph High School is just a little too small and it would have really made things easier if we could have kept the students. In fact, St. Joseph High School has never been in the black since I've been there. We've always lost money -- sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Hence the repeated threats to close us down.
One thing that confuses me is the persistent drumbeat that private schools are not accountable. St. Joseph is an accredited high school. We are accredited by the Northwestern accreditation authority. To be accredited, we have to have a library with librarian and a certified guidance counselor on staff. I mention these two positions, because under the law establishing Charter Schools, Charter Schools do not have to staff these two positions.
When we give out a High School diploma it is recognized by the state of Utah. That means we have to fill all the same science, math, English, etc. requirements that public high schools fill.
It is true that we can have some teachers on staff who are not licensed (currently just one, our Spanish teacher who is a native Columbian and who has been honored with the teacher of the year award a couple of times), but under the accreditation rules, schools are allowed some latitude in having a few unlicensed teachers or teachers that are teaching out of their
specialty. Even when I was unlicensed, I was listed as "highly qualified" for the purposes of No Child Left Behind because I was in the ARL program.
As far as the religion goes, I would say St. Joseph is no more slanted toward the Catholic religion than public schools in Utah are slanted toward the LDS religion. Kids have one class a day in theology and the rest of the day there isn't too much reference to religion. Just like Mormon kids go to seminary one period a day and the rest of the day have largely LDS teachers. Mormons who want their kid to have some religious instruction to accompany their education should be sympathetic to other faiths that want the same thing.
From the legislature's standpoint it's about money. Education expenditures make up the biggest part of the state's budget. A Utah State University study of tuition tax credits estimated the state could save between $343 million and $1.9 billion over a 14 year period. That is not chump change. With the huge river of money pouring into education, the legislature would be irresponsible if they didn't investigate opportunities for savings or greater efficiency. Right now, there is no indication that the 4% of students in private school are anything other than good citizens and an asset to the country. If private school enrollment were to somehow rise
dramatically to 5% of the population I doubt that situation would change. Private graduates would still be good citizens. However, if vouchers somehow leads to private schools turning out sociopaths, a future legislature could repeal vouchers or modify them in some way to make them more fair and efficient. But if we do nothing, we'll learn nothing.
I'm in favor of giving it a shot. But then I'm biased. It might save my job.
RockMonkey
Suddenly Enthusiastic
Channel 5 is having a "conversation" on this after this commercial.
ALF
SURE!?
- Location
- Taylorsville
I'm going to chime in as well...although I didn't read all 4 pages of this thread.
I attended both private and public. Here are my opinions...
First off not all private schools are really that expensive, my parents were not rich by any means although how do you really put a price on your childrens future. this said most kids were from well off families. One problem i saw from this is (and don't take this to literally there are exceptions) one reason my parents wanted me in private school was because of the amount of drugs in public but with rich kids you only find more expensive and readibly available drugs
Secondly the quality of education is far superior in private than any I saw in public. I was 3 grades higher than most of my friends when I went back to public school.
I also saw a comment about athletics, private schools have athletic dept.s they just aren't big enough to compete with most public schools except for maybe Judge. I went to a 1A school so we just traveled to all the podunk towns to play.
All in all I'm glad I went to private school for a few years it taught me alot. I could see "The Church" starting their own private schools if this bill is passed then the Religions issue won't be an issue. If this passes it might be enough for me to persuade the wife in to letting me send our kids to private school.
I attended both private and public. Here are my opinions...
First off not all private schools are really that expensive, my parents were not rich by any means although how do you really put a price on your childrens future. this said most kids were from well off families. One problem i saw from this is (and don't take this to literally there are exceptions) one reason my parents wanted me in private school was because of the amount of drugs in public but with rich kids you only find more expensive and readibly available drugs
Secondly the quality of education is far superior in private than any I saw in public. I was 3 grades higher than most of my friends when I went back to public school.
I also saw a comment about athletics, private schools have athletic dept.s they just aren't big enough to compete with most public schools except for maybe Judge. I went to a 1A school so we just traveled to all the podunk towns to play.
All in all I'm glad I went to private school for a few years it taught me alot. I could see "The Church" starting their own private schools if this bill is passed then the Religions issue won't be an issue. If this passes it might be enough for me to persuade the wife in to letting me send our kids to private school.
RockMonkey
Suddenly Enthusiastic
So there are a certain number of kids that are destined to go to private school, vouchers or not. If we pass this bill, those families get vouchers, reducing the funding available to public schools, but NOT reducing class size at all (because these kids were never going to go to public school anyway). This will DECREASE the amount of money per pupil in public schools, and we're already last in the nation on this. We can not afford to reduce the $ per pupil any more.
Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
I didn't even go to class for most of my junior and senior years of HS, and I graduated with college credit and a 95 test average. How?
As for vouchers, since I homeschool my kids
I haven't looked into the particulars but if this is the same "the money goes w/the kid" kind of voucher, then I'm all for it. It engenders competition, and basically punishes bad schools for being sh*tty. Public schools should be held to standards, and if parents can see that certain schools aren't living up to them, and they're paying the taxes, sure, they should be able to transfer their kids. I've known a few people that moved to NY and had to repeat a grade because they were behind NY standards..... Seems like UT is lagging badly in public education.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Great reads:
The first national comparison of test scores among children in charter schools and regular public schools shows charter school students often doing worse than comparable students in regular public schools.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9500E0DE103FF934A2575BC0A9629C8B63
Tacoma... New York vs. Utah... numbers are not backing up your talk... from all the online comparisons I can find on K-12 education, New York and Utah are 6's. Until it comes to higher education, Utah prevails hands down.
http://www.schoolmatters.com/app/lo...5/stype=/catid=-1/secid=-1/compid=-1/site=pes
http://www.schoolmatters.com/app/lo...5/stype=/catid=-1/secid=-1/compid=-1/site=pes
The first national comparison of test scores among children in charter schools and regular public schools shows charter school students often doing worse than comparable students in regular public schools.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9500E0DE103FF934A2575BC0A9629C8B63
Tacoma... New York vs. Utah... numbers are not backing up your talk... from all the online comparisons I can find on K-12 education, New York and Utah are 6's. Until it comes to higher education, Utah prevails hands down.
http://www.schoolmatters.com/app/lo...5/stype=/catid=-1/secid=-1/compid=-1/site=pes
http://www.schoolmatters.com/app/lo...5/stype=/catid=-1/secid=-1/compid=-1/site=pes
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
First, I call BS you had a "95" test average... though if you have some report cards you would like to post I'de change my mind.
Second, who failed who? You were a self-proclaimed brilliant mind and what did you do with it?? Did you apply for a scholarship? With a 95% average I'm sure you would have received one, even as a WASP.
Just because you have dumb freinds doesn't make NY better than UT, read the results I posted above
Skylinerider
Wandering the desert
- Location
- Ephraim
You can already transfer your kids to ANY public school, and enroll in whatever private school you want provided you pay the tuition. This really isn't about choice as there is already lots of choices. If I wanted to enroll my kid in a school in SLC instead of Stansbury I could easily.
RockMonkey
Suddenly Enthusiastic
Yup, and this is likely what we will do. We will do the research on all the public schools in the valley, and choose the best ones.
Tacoma
Et incurventur ante non
- Location
- far enough away
asdf
First, I call BS you had a "95" test average... though if you have some report cards you would like to post I'de change my mind.
My mom's got them, if they didn't get tossed in their move. I'll ask.
Second, who failed who? You were a self-proclaimed brilliant mind and what did you do with it?? Did you apply for a scholarship? With a 95% average I'm sure you would have received one, even as a WASP.
I did, full ride to RISD, some SUNY schools, and partial to Syracuse.
Just because you have dumb freinds doesn't make NY better than UT, read the results I posted above
Those dumb friends graduated in the same program as I did, once they caught up. THIS WAS 16 YEARS AGO, as well. Things certainly could have changed since then.