Can of worms: School Vouchers

[RockMonkey]

Why should public schools be any different than any other public service? We all pay for all the public services, regardless of whether we use them or not. I'm not saying that's right, but if we change public schools to a "Pay for use" status, shouldn't we change all other services to this too? Somebody brought up the fire department example earlier in the thread. I've never used the fire department, why should I pay for it? Even if you don't use the public school system directly you still benefit from it. Without it the majority of the population would be uneducated, and we would have a disastrous economy. As a business owner, you certainly benefit from the healthy economy, don't you?

 

[waynehartwig]

Why should public schools be any different than any other public service? We all pay for all the public services, regardless of whether we use them or not. I'm not saying that's right, but if we change public schools to a "Pay for use" status, shouldn't we change all other services to this too? Somebody brought up the fire department example earlier in the thread. I've never used the fire department, why should I pay for it? Even if you don't use the public school system directly you still benefit from it. Without it the majority of the population would be uneducated, and we would have a disastrous economy. As a business owner, you certainly benefit from the healthy economy, don't you?

I think you misunderstood, I meant that it should stay the way it is. Public school is a right, not a privelidge, and the money should stay in the school to reserve yoru right. So no, I don't think it should be pay for use.

However, if someone is goign to be taking money out, they should only be aloud to take out what they are putting in - between property and income tax. I don't think a blanket $3k is fair, as some probably live in an apartment and don't contribute near what others do.

Utah really puts a lot of money into the public schools - or at least they take away from people a lot and say it's for the schools. CA takes away a lot too, but they have trailers for class rooms or even complete schools, because there is no money to build schools. Where UT has new schools poppping up all over the place. I remember about 2 years ago one school brought in a portable and the parents flipped! That's one school and one portable, and I think the school said it was temporary while they fixed/expanded (don't remember).

Dunno... Just looking at everything....

 

[RockMonkey]

Salt Lake County school systems have a major challenge because it's young population is moving. Schools on the East side are going to close because of a lack of students (too small class size!), the young population is moving to the west side of the valley, and the class sizes there are huge. They're building new schools on the West side while closing schools on the East side. This costs a lot of money.

 

[waynehartwig]

Salt Lake County school systems have a major challenge because it's young population is moving. Schools on the East side are going to close because of a lack of students (too small class size!), the young population is moving to the west side of the valley, and the class sizes there are huge. They're building new schools on the West side while closing schools on the East side. This costs a lot of money.

Why are people moving? Cost of homes are less for larger? And their old homes are being bought by older folks with no kids?

 

[greenjeep]

*WARNING, PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL TEACHERS OPINION*

I agree with everybody who says that school don't fail people, but rather people fail themselves.

How can I as an educator force children to learn or be motivated other than by example? This is one reason teacher MUST be certified, we spend years learning how to manage a classroom effectively. Private schools can employ virtually anybody they deem qualified. One thing that I unfortunately had too many opportunities to experience with many college professors was: just because you know a lot about a subject, doesn't mean you can teach that information in a classroom setting. Teachers are trained to teach.

Vouchers only really help the rich who feel their kids are "too good" for public education. It takes money away from the "problem," how can this help?

I loved my public school teachers, that's why I became one.

 

[waynehartwig]

Vouchers only really help the rich who feel their kids are "too good" for public education. It takes money away from the "problem," how can this help?

I kinda disagree. You'll agree with me here - some kids accel faster than others, right? Some kids you just can't teach, and others pick up on it as fast as you can lay it down. Well, now put 20 of each of those students in the same class together. So now 50% of your audience isn't understanding waht you are saying and 50% are bored, because they either already knew it or have heard you say it 5 times before.

I think this is where private schools accel - or can. Same with smaller class sizes. I like someone elses idea to put like level kids in the same class (however, parents wouldn't allow that...My little Johnny is the smartest in the school and you're making him dumb and now I'm going to sue ) But this is kind of what I mean when I say the system is failing.

EDIT: isn't this why we have grades, or levels? Anymore it's illegal? or at least not PC to hold a child back because they aren't up to the new challenge, and I disagree with this. If the child is failing, then they should be held back. If the parents/teachers believe he's failing because he is bored, give them an aptitude test - if they pass, they can advance. If they fail, they stay back or take summer classes to come back and try the test again before the school year starts.

 

[ID Bronco]

I find it amazing how so many people with a similar hobby, love, addiction, what ever you call it can have such different ideas on this issue. I am not from Utah, but I am in economics and have two kids in public schools and have strong feelings about this issue. I only got through three pages and couldn't stand to read the rest. I would vote 100% for it if I was there. I will be encouraging my family who is there to do the same. Private school kids are not snobs who think they are above the public system. Public schools are not outlined as something the Federal govt. should or has to provide as per the Constitution. I went to public school, and if I could afford it I would send my kids to private school. I participated in sports, wasn't a huge geek and made it through. But all things being equal, competition is good, and I would send my kids to private schools.

on with the rant.

 

[MOODY]

Utah spends $7,500 per student, the voucher is $2,000... that leaves $5,500 per voucher for the school to use.

Whether or not the school actually still gets the $5,500 I have not read enough to find out.

From what I understand each student cost the school system 7000.00 if they decide to go to private school the take out 2000.00 for the voucher leaving 5000.00 in the public system but removing the student therefor adding 5000.00

So while the piece of pie is missing the student is missing as well

So the simple way to break it down is if you had 10 students who all get 70,000 to split between them and one leaves and only takes 2000.00 with them it leaves 68,000 for the othe nine to split, so each student gets $7555 in spending

Correct me if I am wrong but that sounds like a good thing

I can speak to this...at the beginning of every year, teachers have to give a tally of the # of kids in a particular class, about 2-3 weeks in, to determine funding. If the school gets 7500 per kid(I am not sure) and 12 are pulled for vouchers, I am willing to be that the school does not get the remaining money...it is simply allocated elsewhere.

Another great argument for the pro-voucher crowd is that "It will reduce class sizes"
I'm not buying it. My first year teaching, I had classes upward of 42. I can't see that taking money and 6 kids out will reduce my class sizes...though it may cause one of the teachers to be bumped out because of the lack of #'s, resulting in MORE crowded classes(as what happened in my old school last year)

I don't know, I can see both sides of the argument...I just hope people don't simply base their opinions on the TV ads...

Why should public schools be any different than any other public service? We all pay for all the public services, regardless of whether we use them or not. I'm not saying that's right, but if we change public schools to a "Pay for use" status, shouldn't we change all other services to this too? Somebody brought up the fire department example earlier in the thread. I've never used the fire department, why should I pay for it? Even if you don't use the public school system directly you still benefit from it. Without it the majority of the population would be uneducated, and we would have a disastrous economy. As a business owner, you certainly benefit from the healthy economy, don't you?

Speaks loudly to the crowd that says, "Why should I pay my taxes to public education when I don't have kids?"

I'm glad my doctor went to public school, and my parents taxes paid for some of it