CJ front suspension

[Jinx]

Background:
I have had my scrambler for 13+ years and really enjoy it. It has been a build year by year thing always trying to make sure whatever I mod now will not interfere with where I would like it to ultimately be or if possible be the ground work for the next modification.

That being said I have been doing a lot of the prep work to link it out while still running on leaf springs. Examples on my rear anti wrap bar is mounted to a truss so when I get there I can cut the tabs off and weld on the new ones for my four link. On my front suspension I already have the shock hoops in place and they are tied together over my engine compartment so in theory I would just need links and coil overs.

I have always a said if it's not broke don't fix it but when in doubt upgrade.

So at winter 4x4 jamboree I finally gained an excuse to upgrade. I broke a front spring pack.

So I can probably replace both front springs for $500-600 or finally link the front in hopes of losing the front hopping or unloading that happens with my current axle wrap.

So let's talk 4-link, 3 link, radius arms. Etc.

Also let's talk shocks. Fox, FOA, Kings, coil overs, air shocks, ORI struts etc.

one thing to keep in mind this is a 34 year old cj and I am hoping to keep the stock front frame.

 

[Jinx]

Oh yea, just because it might help the conversation. The scrambler has full width chevy d60 and 14 bolt on 40's. I would like to keep some turning radius but there seems to be a lot of room to work.

 

[mbryson]

In for the discussion. Just bought some OME leaf springs from CruiserOutfitters and want to a little wear into those before linking things up

 

[UNSTUCK]

How much do you want to spend? How much fab can you do/want to do? You may not now, but once it's linked, you will want to go fast(er). That needs to be considered during the build. That means more up travel and maybe "adjusting" the front frame. Going fast or slow you will want hydraulic bumps. Sometimes they can be hard to package, so plan accordingly. But the main thing is how much you want to spend. That will determine what brands you go with. Most of the shock families are pretty similar and are all set up the same way. You mention ORIs, which I think are worth talking about. I think they are gaining a lot of steam and have far more pros then cons, especially for a guys who's not planning on winning the Hammers (and maybe even him too, now).

If you want off the shelf parts, I'd recommend Gen Right's front 3 link and rear 4 link, either single or double triangulated. They are great kits and take all the guess work out of it. Their kits are pricey though. I think Carl has their cool brackets just about knocked out so maybe hit him up for those frame mounted brackets.

The rear shocks will need to be frenched into the frame if you want to keep them out of the tub. Gen Right makes them, so does Carl and Midnight 4x4 for a better price locally.

I like the Jonny Joint type ends, VS. heim joints. They are quieter, smoother, and usually have greater flex.

You will need limit straps as the suspension will droop more than your shocks and you don't want them to take the load.


I think I've hit the main points. Let us know more about your budget and we will give you more ideas of how to spend it.

 

[DaveB]

I linked my Scrambler last winter and it worked out great. If you want to see how I made it all fit you can come by and take a look. I did full 4 link front and rear and did it without major frame modifications. On the front I had to make new motor mounts to clear the upper control arms and I also had to move the steering gear box forward to keep the pitman from hitting the tie rod. My Scrambler has dana 44s front and rear. The front is a Chevy 44 that I narrowed to match the rear which came out of a Comanche. To get decent trac bar angles I went high steer and used a flat pitman with the rod end coming in from the top. The Scrambler rides down the road very nicely and the ride is very smooth. Off road it works great. I made all of my brackets and crossmembers myself so I can't speak to the kits out there. I didn't go coil overs but I did outboard the rear shocks which allowed for longer shocks.

 

[Jinx]

Dave I will have to take you up on looking at what you have done. I have seen your work in the last and it is always really clean.

(I think everyone has seen the link set up that some one has done just to say it's linked not that it actually works. )

to answer the question on spend. I am not made of money but not afraid to spend if it makes sense. I don't want to save $50 now that will cost me $200 a year from now.

 

[Jinx]

Oh and to clarify I am thinking about just the front suspension right now.

The rear can wait. It's not broke.

 

[Jinx]

How much do you want to spend? How much fab can you do/want to do? You may not now, but once it's linked, you will want to go fast(er). That needs to be considered during the build. That means more up travel and maybe "adjusting" the front frame. Going fast or slow you will want hydraulic bumps. Sometimes they can be hard to package, so plan accordingly. But the main thing is how much you want to spend. That will determine what brands you go with. Most of the shock families are pretty similar and are all set up the same way. You mention ORIs, which I think are worth talking about. I think they are gaining a lot of steam and have far more pros then cons, especially for a guys who's not planning on winning the Hammers (and maybe even him too, now).

If you want off the shelf parts, I'd recommend Gen Right's front 3 link and rear 4 link, either single or double triangulated. They are great kits and take all the guess work out of it. Their kits are pricey though. I think Carl has their cool brackets just about knocked out so maybe hit him up for those frame mounted brackets.

The rear shocks will need to be frenched into the frame if you want to keep them out of the tub. Gen Right makes them, so does Carl and Midnight 4x4 for a better price locally.

I like the Jonny Joint type ends, VS. heim joints. They are quieter, smoother, and usually have greater flex.

You will need limit straps as the suspension will droop more than your shocks and you don't want them to take the load.


I think I've hit the main points. Let us know more about your budget and we will give you more ideas of how to spend it.

Great information and things to think about. Thank you!

 

[Bart]

Unstuck pretty much summed up everything I was thinking while reading your question. I've done GenRights 3 and 4 link kits and they are awesome but expensive. Carl made some new brackets for the rear 4 link I put on mine last year and I'm very happy with it, but there are clearance issues that need to be addressed before installing it. With your frame width and SBC it will be very tough to do a 4 link up front without a LOT of extra fab work. 3 links work great and that's prolly what I'll put on the front of mine when I do it. I'm running the YJ frame with the SBC and same axles that you have. Very interested to see how yours turns out.

 

[I Lean]

The CJ frame is probably one of your limiting parts--not much room inside for an upper link, and not much room to put uppers outside and still be able to steer and fit shocks. If you remember the CJ that Mt. Logan built for "Timpanogos" on here, they used radius arms up front...I assume because they're what fit in the space available.

Shocks--you get what you pay for. Although, Team Fred has a bunch of experience with FOA's, so he might be able to help you if you go that route.

So...build what fits, it'll be better than your leaves. And put a center limit strap on it.

 

[skippy]

The CJ frame is probably one of your limiting parts--not much room inside for an upper link, and not much room to put uppers outside and still be able to steer and fit shocks. If you remember the CJ that Mt. Logan built for "Timpanogos" on here, they used radius arms up front...I assume because they're what fit in the space available.

Shocks--you get what you pay for. Although, Team Fred has a bunch of experience with FOA's, so he might be able to help you if you go that route.

So...build what fits, it'll be better than your leaves. And put a center limit strap on it.

and a sway bar.

 

[Jinx]

Radius arms kind of got introduced to the conversation over the weekend, there was a sweet yellow Early Model Bronco with Cage/Bloody Knuckle Radius Arms, ORI Struts, and a track bar.

It was super clean and man that seemed to really hook up well and go.

Any negatives that need to be considered when going this route?

I will pull up the Genright website next

 

[skippy]

Radius arms kind of got introduced to the conversation over the weekend, there was a sweet yellow Early Model Bronco with Cage/Bloody Knuckle Radius Arms, ORI Struts, and a track bar.

It was super clean and man that seemed to really hook up well and go.

Any negatives that need to be considered when going this route?

I will pull up the Genright website next

as long as you have a suck down winch or center limit strap radius arms work great... Im doing radius arms on my WJ build

 

[I Lean]

Radius arms may not articulate as well as a 3 or 4 link suspension, because they try to twist your axle housing when one link droops and the other one compresses. If you have solid attachments at all axle points, you net zero articulation. Bushing flex is what lets normal radius arm suspensions move. There are a few ways to free that up, if it bothers you: (and it may not, because it might be just the amount of "sway bar" you'll want)

A) Longer radius arms = less bushing deflection necessary, more free to flex.
B) "Wristed" radius arms will flex freely. (essentially one radius arm and a single link on the other side)
C) Triangulate the frame end of the radius arms--the closer to the center of the rig, the less binding there will be.

Wristed radius arms have their own set of problems, most notably body roll under braking.

 

[Jinx]

Great information guys I am loving the conversation.

 

[DaveB]

The CJ frame is probably one of your limiting parts--not much room inside for an upper link, and not much room to put uppers outside and still be able to steer and fit shocks. If you remember the CJ that Mt. Logan built for "Timpanogos" on here, they used radius arms up front...I assume because they're what fit in the space available.

It is tight but I can show you my Commando, it has a frame the same width as the CJ up front and it has a SBC. I was able to put a full 4 link up front on it too. It was a tight fit but it works quite well. it worked so well thats why I linked up the Scrambler.

 

[I Lean]

I have seen it--and I agree, it looks great. I didn't say it's not doable, just that there isn't much room. You mentioned you built new motor mounts to create space, so you know what I mean.

 

[DaveB]

I have seen it--and I agree, it looks great. I didn't say it's not doable, just that there isn't much room. You mentioned you built new motor mounts to create space, so you know what I mean.

Yes I know what you mean but I wanted to let him know it is possible.

 

[neagtea]

I may want to sell a set of saw coil overs, 2"x12" travel when ya get serious. I also have a brand new set of fox 2" x 4" travel bump stops with cromo cans.
Working on a CJ link job right now but the frame is getting a reroute forward of the tub.
Thinking I want to go 2.5 IBP CO's for a little more control without running a shock also.
(I kind of like to drive a little fast over the rough stuff)

 

[Jinx]

I may want to sell a set of saw coil overs, 2"x12" travel when ya get serious. I also have a brand new set of fox 2" x 4" travel bump stops with cromo cans.
Working on a CJ link job right now but the frame is getting a reroute forward of the tub.
Thinking I want to go 2.5 IBP CO's for a little more control without running a shock also.
(I kind of like to drive a little fast over the rough stuff)

thanks for the offer I will keep it in mind.

I just was looking at Dennis's old teraflex YJ and it's 4link. It can be done it is pretty tight.

I am starting to price things out... Life isn't cheap.