Comps in Moab discussion

[cruiseroutfit]

I'm gonna have to be on the stay out of Moab side.... for many reasons.

1. Moab is probably #1 on the list of hotspots for groups like SUWA, they are constantly trying to work us over there. Luckily groups like The Red Rock 4wheelers, U4WDA, BRC and USAALL are fighting just as hard... but if we add more fuel to the fire (more comps) then they will prevail...

2. The way others view our sport... face it, Moab has many different land users, hikers, bikers, rafters, etc... but they all share the same land and congregate in the same 5 mile radius... unlike Cedar City or St George, there really isn't a conflict of users like Moab ALREADY has.

3. There are alot of 4wheelers that arn't into the rockcrawling scene, not because they have no insight to it, rather they just don't like the idea of beating rigs to death, moving only 20 feet in 10 minutes and rolling all over the same rocks.... Do you think that they want to come to Moab just to be trapped on a trail near a comp? (this is obviously aimed at hosting events at popular areas)

Just opinions so I am open to bashing...

 

[Milner]

Very valid points. There are many reasons that it is a BAD idea to have comps in Moab. I have heard a negitive feed back from many "lay People" in regaurds to the RRCA event. I don't think many saw the Moab rocks. RRCA was a lot more accessable.

Anyone that thinks comps don't do damage is an idiot! (sorry nothing personal) But damage IS done. Trees destoyed, oil spills, etc. (same damage that is caused by rec wheeling, just exagerated and increased due to its nature.) The question is, do we have the right to use the area? If so, should we? And is it in an area that the damage can be contained/limited and how easily is it rectified.

If we want to continue to wheel in many different areas, we will have to make choices on which to loose. It is enevitable that some areas will be closed.

To me a comp in Moab is like selling bullets to your enemies.

Marc

 

[sukaB]

I agree with Cruiser and rckcrlr...

It's just bad news....
Plus we don't want to piss on all of red rock 4wheelers hard work.......
Moab is for Recreation and I want to wheel there with my kid some day...
Ohh yah swamp says stay out of his runnin area-(ruffspecially pritchett)...
It's his favorite trail....

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by sukaB


...............Plus we don't want to piss on all of red rock 4wheelers hard work...........

Now there's something to think about...........

 

[Andy]

I thought all the comps have been on private land so far? And if so, how can that be taken away from us? I know you still probably have to get a permit from some where, and access the site across public land. I don't know how I feel about the Moab comp scene, but I do agree that it could be trouble.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Originally posted by Andy
I thought all the comps have been on private land so far? And if so, how can that be taken away from us? ....

Good point, thought the events may take place on private land*, recreational wheeling for the most part does not. But a casual observer down there (such as a mountain biker riding by) might not realoze that and associate comps with destruction.

*I was under the impression that the RCAA event was on public BLM land. I know Moabrocks was on private property, but it does require access from public property. Rememer that mountian bikers and other 4x4ers have not been super happy with the ideas that the Moabrocks owner has been proposing, luckily we havn't dealt with them since the first comp was a flop (IMHO)

 

[mbryson]

I'm fairly confident that the ChokeCherry canyon (Farmington, NM) events are on BLM land (at least the BLM officers were there to 'police' the event)

 

[Milner]

I believe Ranches shin dig was on school trust land.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Originally posted by rckcrlr
I believe Ranches shin dig was on school trust land.

School Trust land is administrated by the BLM, alot of the land in Moab is School Trust, Lions back, etc...

 

[Brett]

Originally posted by cruiseroutfit


School Trust land is administrated by the BLM, alot of the land in Moab is School Trust, Lions back, etc...

Like my parents back yard down there too!

 

[Andy]

Does anyone know if the RCAA event was on private land or what?

 

[sukaB]

See as cruiseroutfitter states that alot of people don't realize what is private or public....
I don't....Unless I see a sign...

They associate it all..Jeepers get blamed for all destruction in Moab already...


The Moab rim thing was my example first hand of walking up with a mountain biker that had happened to meander down behind me as I wandered around and was saddened by what I saw....
I'm for staying out of there...

I hope UROC never travels there....I would have to fight it..

 

[bobdog]

Public or private Is not all that is important. Just because you own land does not mean you can do what ever you want with it(Moab rim guy unfortunatly does have this thing approved). I don't know how the guy got ahold of that land on top of the rim and I don't know how many acres he owns but I bet he has looked into developing it and paving the road up there(can you imagine what a subdivision of multimilliondollar houses could make the guy). Just because he has a permit for a comp does not mean that people should support it. Decide for yourself, but if you don't beleive comps are good for the long term wheeling oportunities in Moab then do not compete, do not spectate, don't buy a coke from the guy when you are on the rim, and do not ride the guys chairlift.

 

[Floppy Hat]

Originally posted by Andy
Does anyone know if the RCAA event was on private land or what?

The RCAA event was on public land. The state of Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands to be exact: Trust Lands Administration

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Originally posted by bobdog
...Moab rim guy ... I don't know how the guy got ahold of that land on top of the rim and I don't know how many acres he owns but I bet he has looked into developing it and paving the road up there(can you imagine what a subdivision of multimilliondollar houses could make the guy)....

He bought it at auction, the original owner fought the government for years to allow him to build the tram, he is a long-time Moab local and spent big bucks developing the tram. He couldn't cover the csot with his first 3-4 years of operation and it went to auction. The new owner (non-Moab native) picked it up with plans to boot... I have spoken with several concerned Moab locals (including a member of RR4W) They are all really foggy on the whole thing.

 

[sukaB]

Bobdog is right on track......
Don't support it.......

We don't.....

 

[SAMI]

just thought i'd say something.

i agree with everything said about staying outta Moab. i'd just be repeating if i went on.

hey B, i didn't know you cared so much. hats off to ya.

we should have a big huge RME anti parade through Moab for not holding comps there anymore.

 

[sukaB]

Moab is like Church for a guy like me.....

I'm not wheelin thru the front doors....


Lets start one....

 

[spencurai]

I have looked at both sides of the arguement. I see valid points on either side and I could go either way on this one....let me precursor this by saying I am up in the air so I am gonna take the less popular side of this discussion for discussion's sake.

I don't see a big deal with running in Moab as long as it is on private land and as long as things get cleaned up as far as refuse is concerned.

PRIVATE land is a big thing....sorry bobdog, you can do pretty much whatever you want on your own land this side of nuclear waste disposal!! he got permits to have an event on HIS land. More power to him. It will no doubt generate revenue for the city as well as HIMSELF obviously. This is a guy that took a struggling business and is trying to turn it around and make money!! MAKING MONEY is the root of this thing. If he can score big by holding a competetion NOW, then of course he is going to do it. If he levels EVERY climb and obstacle on his private land because of it, that is the price he might just have to pay. IT IS HIS LAND!!!!


I think it is chicken Sh!t to think that tearing up land SOMEWHERE ELSE is OK but tearing it up in Moab is any less damaging to the environment!! That is the "I want it but not in my backyard" principle and it is bullsh!t through and through. We want cheap electricity but we dont want the soot and nuclear waste from power plants....and we don't want flooded canyons either.....but we want the electricity without the sacrifice.

Try organizing an event is some butthole town completely inconvenient to ANYWHERE.....don't you think craig would like an event in delta....problem is that it has no drawing power and it is completely in the middle of nowhere with no major roads other than 2-laners coming into it. Moab can be reached by mostly interstates if needs be. so can St George....and Cedar City, New mexico is foreign to me so I can't speak on that one....

you have to have someplace interesting with good landscape and good accessibility....

Don't lobby for a cease and decist in moab.....lobby for responsible event hosting and environmental practices.

lobby for grandstands instead of grouping around an obstacle trampling the vegetation and scenery more than any 4X4 could do in a 2 day period!!

We have to face facts that this competetion deal is growing by leaps and bounds and guess what....it isn't following the competitors....it isn't following the landscape....it is following the MONEY. Where the money is, there also shall the competetion be.

MOAB = established name = $$$$$$$$$
cedar city = accessibility = $$$$$$$$
St George = Accessibility and accomidation = $$$$$$$$

desert mountain = BFE+dirt roads for MILES+no facilities+general remoteness = 0$ minimal spectators

there would be big money for people to find new locations.....what are you people waiting for?

 

[bobdog]

PRIVATE land is a big thing....sorry bobdog, you can do pretty much whatever you want on your own land this side of nuclear waste disposal!! he got permits to have an event on HIS land. More power to him. It will no doubt generate revenue for the city as well as HIMSELF obviously. This is a guy that took a struggling business and is trying to turn it around and make money!! MAKING MONEY is the root of this thing. If he can score big by holding a competetion NOW, then of course he is going to do it. If he levels EVERY climb and obstacle on his private land because of it, that is the price he might just have to pay. IT IS HIS LAND!!!!

Ever heard of zoning?