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Concealed-gun debate heats up after mall shooting

crispy bandit

crispy bandit

Registered User
I Lean said:
There certainly would have been less people shot, therefore less people dead.
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Who knows the person carrying the Concealed gun could have been mistaken for the a gunman by the police and have been shot.

So may be less people would die.

But on the other hand the concealed weapons Holder could be one of the fatalities as well. :confused:
 
M

Meat_

Banned
Location
Lehi
If you were there with your gun and acted immediately it would all be over before the cops arrive.

One thing to remember, if you act to stop the shooter and kill someone else on accident you open yourself up for manslaughter charges.

I would be open to required training, in that you are required to take the training course but you only need to complete the course to get your permit. That will either teach you how to handle a situation or teach you what situations you can handle.

With that said... the shooting test that police officers have to pass in this state scares me, and what scares me more is that many of them have to try multiple times before they pass it.
 
SAMI

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
Meat_ said:
With that said... the shooting test that police officers have to pass in this state scares me, and what scares me more is that many of them have to try multiple times before they pass it.
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i take it the requirements are abit loose?

i'm going to sign up for a tactical training of some sort when the time comes to get my CWP...

-Jason
 
waynehartwig

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Meat_ said:
If you were there with your gun and acted immediately it would all be over before the cops arrive.

One thing to remember, if you act to stop the shooter and kill someone else on accident you open yourself up for manslaughter charges.

I would be open to required training, in that you are required to take the training course but you only need to complete the course to get your permit. That will either teach you how to handle a situation or teach you what situations you can handle.

With that said... the shooting test that police officers have to pass in this state scares me, and what scares me more is that many of them have to try multiple times before they pass it.
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I'm not sure what they are for Utah, but on a federal level, they are very strict and you only get one chance to pass it. If you fail, you must send a letter to the person in charge and ask for special consideration to be allowed back into the training course - to which you must start at day one again. I don't recall the exact specifics, but the score has to be high (more than 95%), you have to be able to shoot well at the target at all different angles and distances - and with both hands. You have to be able to pretty much be able to empty your clip in the very short amount of time given. Basically they are scored on their speed (from holster position) and accuracy. I want to say they were allowed to miss 6 shots total - if you weren't fast enough to empty your clip, you missed some shots. If they weren't kill shots, you missed as well. Kathleen (my wife) missed 3 shots, only because her left hand was weak and she wasn't able to squeeze off all of her shots. ....The entire test is completed using your issue .40 - no shotguns (well, I take that back, that's another test they must pass), no .22's...
 
waynehartwig

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
DevinB said:
Wayne, what does your wife do again? It has something to do with the post office, right?
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Postal Inspector. Sig totin', 90#, bad a$$... ;)

...Before anyone :rolleyes:. Her job is not to make sure you put the correct stamp on your letter - that is the post offices job. Anything that goes through the mail that is illegal, is her jurisdiction - even if local or federal agents are working on the case already. Two days out of the academy, she had to bust a meth a lab. Last week she was investigating some armed robberies... Yesterday she had a meeting with local, state, FBI, CIA, US Marshalls, US Attorneys, ATF, etc - all of the big names! She has an open desk at the US Marshalls office. Her primary position is post office security - to make sure employees, cash and customers are always safe - in Montana, Idaho and Washington. Which she hates, because it's a boring 'desk job'. She likes the raids/busts. Like a few weeks ago, she went to Seattle to bust a guy for making/buying beastiality movies. He is also a weapons dealer and a martial arts expert, so they were expecting a very messy situation - brought a machine gun expert in to lead the bust!! :eek: Very exciting job, if I do say so myself :D The pay and beni's are nice, too.. She started out a GS10 and in a couple of years she should be a GS12. :greg:

And she does have a CCW and is able to fly while armed - even if not on official business. She drives an actual unmarked car - she got pulled over the other day for speeding (while following someone) because the cop didn't know...
 
waynehartwig

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
chadr said:
:eek: :eek:
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:confused: what?!?

She was also trained that you never pull your gun unless you intend on killing someone. To always aim for center mass, your chest. And never to fire only one shot - even if you hit your target. If you have to empty your clip to stop the threat, then.... Did I mention she uses hollow points? ;) ...She's actually quite the bad a&& with the gun, too (I'm very proud:D)... Very accurate for me just teaching her 3 years ago. A natural. She can make 100 shots and put over 90 of them at the center with the rest in the next ring - all 100 being kill shots. That's even with moving (civilian/perp) targets, crouched behind a corner, and various yardage...
 
waynehartwig

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
chadr said:
I retract my :eek: :eek: I was just mess'n with ya Wayne anyway

That sounds like a sweet job.
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Sweet, indeed...Not many days go by where I'm not jealous :D There was a case where I wasn't so envious, though... The port o pot people called her up to tell her there was stolen mail in the can.. :eek: :-\ :sick:
 
Milner

Milner

formerly "rckcrlr"
Location
Hiding behind a camera
DevinB said:
So he had a Kimber? I wondered what he was carrying. The radio said he had his "service revolver" and only eight rounds. I didn't know what to make of it.
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He said, Kimber and 45, So.....I would bet it was a Kimber 1911, 7 in the clip and 1 in the hole....I like Kimbers, and about any high end 1911;)
 
V-DAWG

V-DAWG

someday
Location
Taylorsville
waynehartwig said:
She was also trained that you never pull your gun unless you intend on killing someone.
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To an extent....... You should not risk your safety by hesitating. I pull my gun all the time as a police officer, but not always with the intent on killing someone. There are times it is necessary to pull the gun out, like when clearing a building to be sure no one is inside.

waynehartwig said:
To always aim for center mass, your chest.
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Ask her about failure drills :greg:


As a CCW they instruct you to "be the best witness possible" in most cases. In the Trolley Square incident, being a witness would not have mattered. If you are in a bank when it is held up, your best bet is to probably leave your weapon hidden, let the guy do his thing and leave, and then report as much as you can to the police.
 
waynehartwig

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
V-DAWG said:
To an extent....... You should not risk your safety by hesitating. I pull my gun all the time as a police officer, but not always with the intent on killing someone. There are times it is necessary to pull the gun out, like when clearing a building to be sure no one is inside.
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Right... Because at that time you don't have a 'target'. I was reffering to having someone in front of you and pulling your weapon for that reason alone. She was taught NEVER to shoot to wound anyone, so automatically it comes down to if you pull your weapon, you have pulled it to stop the threat. Sometimes your able to talk someone down, but sometimes not - you had better be ready for the 'not'.

One of her scenarios was a drunk in a post office being disruptive and would not leave. Once on the scene, the guy was uncooperative and broke the bottom off his beer bottle and started staggering towards her holding it like a weapon. She tried to talk him down with no compliance. What do you do? She chose to shoot him in the leg and take him down. The drill ended because she chose wrong. The correct answer was to discharge her weapon and stop the threat.

V-DAWG said:
Ask her about failure drills :greg:
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What, tap rack shooters decision?

V-DAWG said:
As a CCW they instruct you to "be the best witness possible" in most cases. In the Trolley Square incident, being a witness would not have mattered. If you are in a bank when it is held up, your best bet is to probably leave your weapon hidden, let the guy do his thing and leave, and then report as much as you can to the police.
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Definately... They pounded this into her head. As long as she is off duty, and no one's life is in immediate danger, she is supposed to sit quietly and let the guy do his thing and leave. She's never supposed to make it known to ANYONE who she is. Even when she flies, if someone was taking the plane over, she isn't supposed to engage. She simply get's on the plane, meets the captain and sits there until she gets off the plane. ...Heck, our own mailman doesn't even know who she is. All he knows is she is an employee, because he does see the benifit packages, and etc.
 
chadr

chadr

Active Member
Location
Hurricane, Utah
Coming directly from the application for a concealed weapon permit for the state of utah or form BCI-1523A-0606 located at this link.

http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/ccwapp.pdf

WEAPON FAMILIARITY CERTIFICATION:
Applicants must complete a firearms familiarity course
certified by the Bureau. The course must be completed
before you apply for a permit. Please have your instructor
complete the certification information on the application. BCI
must receive your application within six months of
course completion.

If your instructor signs your card without you taking a training course, he is not compliant to the training.

Everyone should have a training course IMO.
 
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