There's also a decent chance the enterprising Mexicans have found a nice little side huss to take some cash from the gueros.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Kevin B.
- Start date
85CUCVKRAWLER
Active Member
- Location
- Tooele
Its wild now too, since the data is starting to finally come in. If you ARE vaccinated:
-You can still contract COVID-19
-You can still spread COVID-19
-You can still be hospitalized with COVID-19
-You can still die from COVID-19
-You still have to mask up
Even worse, the data is dubious at best to support a world that would be safer if 100% of people got vaccinated.
CDC study showing COVID infections reflect general population vaxx rates
Israel ringing the alarm bells that 95% of severe COVID patients are vaccineted
CFR rates are INCREASING among the 60+ population that represent 91% vaccinated
glockman
I hate Jeep trucks
- Location
- Pleasant Grove
Anyone who thinks or thought that any vaccine was 100% effective is a non serious person. I am not anti vax. I just have zero incentive to get it. I've had Covid at least once and it was miserable. Why would I get a shot and feel crappy for a day or two when it buys me nothing. The moment my employer lets me take off the mask for my 12 hour shifts, I'll be the first in line to get vax'd. I need some incentive and that's enough for me. Hell I've put all sort of poisonous shit in my body of my own free will for no good reason.
What's super frustrating is the difficulty obtaining good information. My co-worker keeps sending me articles showing 40-90% of new cases being vaccinated people, the state health department took down the chart showing hospitalizations of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people but still show about 15-20% of new positive tests are vaccinated people. The main media is saying 99% of people getting hospitalized are unvaccinated but I can't correlate any of this info. I just settle back into my default, which is, if the right says 90% are vaccinated and the left says 99% aren't, it's probably 50/50.
What's super frustrating is the difficulty obtaining good information. My co-worker keeps sending me articles showing 40-90% of new cases being vaccinated people, the state health department took down the chart showing hospitalizations of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people but still show about 15-20% of new positive tests are vaccinated people. The main media is saying 99% of people getting hospitalized are unvaccinated but I can't correlate any of this info. I just settle back into my default, which is, if the right says 90% are vaccinated and the left says 99% aren't, it's probably 50/50.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
I think you are correct in taking the 2 sides and going somewhere in the middle.
I read an article yesterday (can't find it now to link) so I'm going off memory but it was about the numbers in Lousiana, which has a low vax rate. It dealt with the reports that X% of hospitalizations are young people. What they found was that this number is misleading, but not inaccurate. They had found that the age group of 18-24 had an increased hospitalization rate from the winter peaks in January. The growth was around 65%. However, they also pointed out that the age group was only about 15% of hospitalizations back in the winter....now it's accounting for around 25% or something. The next age group of 25-44 was similar in growth, and accounted for around20% and 35% of the cases respectively. Now, they did find that of those numbers roughly 80% were unvax, but they did distinguish that this was "full vax" vs partial vax. Partial vax or full vax supposedly did account for approx 10% of the cases.
Where is it was more interesting was the older population of 65+ They used to account for 60+% of the hospitalizations in winter. Now they are accounting for around 12% for 65-84 and only about 8% for 85 plus. These groups were generally first to be vaccinated and likely, that contributes to it......BUT, they also point out that the overall hopitalizations are larger portions of younGER people...but most reports leave out what they consider younger. They also tend to leave out if they are using partial or fully vaxed.
So I always take both sides with a grain of salt. I do think you are much less likely to be hospitalized if you are vax'd, and because the younger segement is less vax'd then the older population, it also makes sense that they make up a larger % of the hospitalizations.
How severe are these hospitalizations? I don't know...but the general death rate is still lower....which again, correlates with past data. The younger population (<65) was a fair bit less likely to die from Covid....so, it stands to reason, that vax'd or not, if they are the ones going into the hospital more, the death rate would still be lower (as it appears to be so far)
I have noticed that more of the deaths reported in Utah are under the 65 age group. It is not uncommon to see 10 deaths in the under 45 groups in a given week, of around 35 deaths....when back in the larger peaks, that number was more along the lines of maybe 10, but in 3x the number of deaths in a given week.
I liked the article and will continue to look at it, because I felt it analyzed the data with a less biased POV and pointed out how the numbers are skewed.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
One of those reports on the Louisiana outbreak said that one hospital had a 500% spike in Covid hospitalizations. Later in the same article they said they were up to 21 Covid patients in their hospital.
85CUCVKRAWLER
Active Member
- Location
- Tooele
Well, in general, if a virus mutates, it becomes more virulent/transmissible but less deadly. So the numbers were seeing (infections up, deaths down or not correlating) makes sense.
85CUCVKRAWLER
Active Member
- Location
- Tooele
Oh and check this out. India gave all their citizens ivermectin instead of vaccines and look at their numbers.
Attachments
ID Bronco
Registered User
- Location
- Idaho Falls, ID
To be clear, I think not vaccinating is a choice, and on and on. We won't agree on that one. But I don't think the guys who got on the plane knowing they had covid were in the wrong. I think that is terrible, but that is very different from someone who has no reason to believe they have any illness going into a restaurant to have dinner if they aren't vaccinated.
I don't really follow your scenario above, no matter how cleaver it is.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
Again....the numbers can be skewed to however you want and will be reported different ways by different media outlets. 500% is a large increase, but when you are going off 4 as the original baseline it seems insignificant. However, what if the hospital is in a town of only 500. Then, that would be a large and worrisome increase.
It's all in how you framed the numbers. I had this discussion with my wife on a walk the other night. How she needs to analyze the numbers and not just take what she reads...because while the numbers may be right.....it doesn't mean it's a big deal.
I pointed out to my wife various examples. Utah had one of the lowest rates of vaccination at the beginning....mostly because they were taking total population of each state....so while Utah may have had only 33% of it's total state population vaccinated at the time, about 30% of it's population wasn't even eligible for the vaccine...so when you looked at those vaccinated compared to who was eligible, we were on par with almost all states. Same thing goes with Utah and education spending. Sure, we may spend the least (or close to the least lately) we have way more students then most other states. How much we spend in relation to the budget is more important, as well as test results. We may spend less per pupil, but our testing is still middle of the road....so spending =/= better performance.
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Spork
Tin Foil Hat Equipped
- Location
- Saratoga Springs, UT
Today Biden announced that we have vaccinated 350 million people! I'm glad everyone has done their part... 
glockman
I hate Jeep trucks
- Location
- Pleasant Grove
The vote counting jokes write themselves.Today Biden announced that we have vaccinated 350 million people! I'm glad everyone has done their part...
You don't think the guys who got on the plane were in the wrong... But you think that it is terrible? I'm not following.
I agree it's different than an unvaccinated person who has no reason to believe they are ill going to dinner or getting on a plane. I have no problem with that, and I don't have a problem with people being able to choose if they want to be vaccinated. I just disagree with the choice personally, and personally think a healthy percentage of the people choosing not to get vaccinated are making that decision based upon misleading headlines and the neighborhood mlm huns passing along thoughts under the guise of fact.
As has been stated many times, the truth lies somewhere between the two polar extremes, and it's difficult to know where and what that really is.
ID Bronco
Registered User
- Location
- Idaho Falls, ID
I should have re-read my post, I meant to say I DO think they were wrong. Poor communication on my part there.
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
1) Those who are unvaccinated are far more likely to harbor/carry the virus.
Viruses mutate into new variants (such as the oft discussed delta variant) only when they have a host to harbor them. The unvaccinated increase the opportunity for the virus to mutate, become more infective or more resistant to the vaccines, thus potentially increasing both the length and severity of the pandemic.
2) We know that nearly all vaccines are less than 100% effective (rabies be an exception) so those vaccinated are not 100% protected. The more people who are unvaccinated, the more virus spread there is and the better chance a vaccinated person has to being exposed and contracting the virus.
3) "herd immunity" can greatly decrease the spread of a virus because there are not enough susceptible host to get infected and spread it to another susceptible individual. Natural infection does not accomplish this, vaccines can (thus we no longer worry about small pox, polio etc.)
Since when? And if that's the case, then how does introducing the "virus" at a dead or disabled state cause "immunity"? Isn't that what vaccinations do? Infect you so you build antibodies? I mean, obviously not this one because it's a different mRNA therapy that is completely experimental at this stage.
So... I guess the rules changed recently or what?
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
Name a disease that natural herd immunity has ever eliminated?
The theory of natural herd immunity sounds fine and dandy, but just doesn't work.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
You have FAR more medical training than my college biology teacher taught me (HALF of you will FAIL----what a douchebag that guy was). However, it seems that if one develops antibodies naturally from fighting off the virus through their own immune system, they would be MORE effective than an introduced virus to the body fighting off a dead or synthesized virus through a vaccine (or other method if there is such a delivery mechanism?)
Spork
Tin Foil Hat Equipped
- Location
- Saratoga Springs, UT
Name a virus that mutates that a vaccine has ever eliminated.
The theory of a vaccine sounds fine and dandy...
glockman
I hate Jeep trucks
- Location
- Pleasant Grove
I've read that vaccinated immunity is superior to the immunity you have from contracting COVID, but I looked hard for any scientific backing and couldn't find any. I'd love to read it if anyone has a link. My understanding is the same as Mbryson's.