Coronavirus

[glockman]

I'd say this same sentiment could be applied to more than just this vaccine. I've wondered recently if some of these fairly new prep drugs for HIV are being distributed to countries in Africa where they are really needed, or if they are just for folks in developed countries with the $$$.

I think that a lot of people are weary of a new vaccine (or really any medication) but the difference is that here we have options. I work with a guy who doesn't feel comfortable getting it. He lives in Vernon and works on Dugway so his chance of contracting the virus is very low. To him his chances of getting sick from the virus are not much worse than having a complication from the vaccine, and he has the right to make that call. Its a much different situation than someone in say India, or even a major US city, where there is very little else some people can do to protect themselves.

I think we could all sometimes take a step back and look closely before we make a determination that "X is wrong and Y is right, period". I think that its been hard for people who live in more rural areas to understand how bad things have been in places like NYC, India, etc. We are lucky to live in a country were we have the right to make those choices. It better to try and understand why someone made the choice they did, and maybe be able to provide a different point of view instead of just accusing and attacking. My coworker has a very low risk of contracting, let alone becoming a spreader. In his case there is very little risk in him staying unvaccinated.

I'll throw my @Herzog tin foil hat on for a second here. Has anyone else notice that since the delta variant has come along to wipe us all out the federal government has come up with $4.5 trillion worth of stuff to spend money on? Interesting how that works...

Funny you mention India. I work with several people from India with mixed feelings about the vaccines and all with family back in India. If you pull the data from worldometer.com India has a population of 1.3 billion (4x the US) and a death per million of 308 vs the US with the best vaccines, a population of 330 million and death per million rate of 1900. That data seems to point to them doing much better than the US.

 

[glockman]

Interesting.

 

[mbryson]

Interesting.

Pretty interesting. I identify with this “expert”

 

[Cody]

I also believe I've read that the mrna technology that was used, had been under development for a decade or more with the intent to be able to make "on demand" targeted treatments for cancer and viruses.

I don't have a source for that, so chalk it up to unsubstantiated information.

 

[mbryson]

I also believe I've read that the mrna technology that was used, had been under development for a decade or two more with the intent to be able to make almost "on demand" targeted treatments forced cancer and viruses.

I don't have a source for that, so chalk it up to unsubstantiated information.

You mean information that’s typically “news” (whatever your political slant is, your “news” is horse shit)?

 

[Pike2350]

Moderna's reply:

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😂

Mumps took 4 years, that was the fastest.

Project Warpspeed "injected" a lot of cash. There was a lot of data sharing, too.

As well, they started with sars-cov-2, which was from 2002.

COVID-19 vaccine: How was it developed so fast?

With vaccine approvals underway, MNT spoke with medical experts about how COVID-19 vaccines were designed so quickly without compromising safety.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

This mentions the common cold coronavirus, too. 4 covids are "common".

One thing that I have always found a little funny is how people talk about the timeline it takes for vaccines to be created. The current mumps vaccine was the fastest, in about 4 years (started in 1963 and licensed in '67). However, we have made ENORMOUS breakthroughs in technology since the 60's. It shouldn't be a surprise that vaccines can be created MUCH quicker then past vaccines. Now, not all vaccines will be created as fast...but it's not surprising given what you said about there being a TON of $$$ thrown at this.

Now, the long term affects are different. There is no way to know those without actually having time pass. You have to let the time pass to know long term affects. I have heard similar things to what @Cody said about the mrNA testing happening for a long time. I had heard it was started back when the bird flu was a scare back in the early 2000's. Again, no way to corroborate it, just what I had heard as well.

Found this article on mRNA testing. https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/covid-19/believe-in-the-vaccine/history-of-vaccines

This shows that mRNA testing was started back in the '90s



Another edit. Found this article published pre-Covid, since that means it has NOTHING to do with Covid, and hopefully will be considered legit news....not some "Fake News"

mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology - Nature Reviews Drug Discovery

mRNA vaccines represent a promising alternative to conventional vaccine approaches, but their application has been hampered by instability and delivery issues. Here, Pardi and colleagues discuss recent advances in mRNA vaccine technology, assess mRNA vaccines currently in development for cancer...

www.nature.com

 

[glockman]

My corporate overlords have announced anyone not vaccinated will have to go through weekly testing. They are also doing the brain puncture tests instead of the spit tests, just to be malicious pricks.

 

[Cody]

Much like @Pike2350 said, technological advancements have a tendency to accelerate with time. I mean, look at vehicle/computer/phone technology and how each generation of technology comes faster and faster. Medical research and technology is much the same and has been amplified by more data and an increased capacity to process it, and as much as America pulled funding away from pandemic preparations 5 years ago, it was still being worked on here and around the globe. It's not like the possibility of this type of pandemic, or something far worse, was known by everyone but nobody was doing anything to prepare for it. I think it's always been a race to keep ahead and hopefully develop a silver bullet type technology that would hopefully be the weapon to fight these things. I'm not saying the mrna is that silver bullet, but I think the teams working on it were hoping it could be.

 

[Cody]

My corporate overlords have announced anyone not vaccinated will have to go through weekly testing. They are also doing the brain puncture tests instead of the spit tests, just to be malicious pricks.

Ha, that's shitty, but you said it funny.

 

[mbryson]

Pushback to the Dr. above.

An Indiana doctor's COVID-19 comments went viral. They were also full of misinformation.

Well, that's MSN and USA Today.... Definitely doesn't fit their narrative to have someone with the Indiana Dr sharing that opinion.

 

[Mouse]

Pushback to the Dr. above.

An Indiana doctor's COVID-19 comments went viral. They were also full of misinformation.

That article makes big claims that Dr. Stock "was largely false, contrary to the opinions of the medical establishment, and potentially dangerous" but fails to address what exactly was false. The closest that this article comes to addressing Dr. Stock's "opinions" is when it addressed his quote of the large percentage (75%) of breakout cases in Mass, where the MSN article quotes "96% of current infections in Indiana."

It attempts to also discredit his background and experience...didn't convince me

If the article would back up it's claims with some sort of evidence, not just the going narrative, it might have a chance to be more than garbage.

 

[anderson750]

That highlighted sentence gives msn as much credibility on this matter as their unnamed sources on Russian coullusion.

 

[glockman]

I like how first priority was not disprove his info but to attack his credentials which appear to be valid.

 

[Herzog]

Interesting.

Quoting for repost. This guy is spot on.

 

[Houndoc]

If COVID-19 is not that similar to the "common cold", how were the drug companies able to come up with a vaccine (3-4 to my knowledge) so fast? Maybe a year development at best?

We don't have a common cold vaccine! But I do think the fact that COVID-19 is part of a well known family of viruses, one that we have dealt with other outbreaks in recent years (SARS etc.,) certainly helped.

Vaccine development is a challenge- not so much on safety but for efficacy. Some viruses, such as HIV, decades of efforts have not produced a reliable vaccine. Again, COVID was one that fortunately an effective vaccine was able to be developed quickly.

I am not aware (not saying it hasn't happened) of any cases of an effective vaccine against a virus being kept off the market for safety reasons (allergic reactions to vaccines against bacteria are more common because of the increased protein in the cell wall components that are usually required for an effective bacterial vaccine.)

This is especially true now that live-virus vaccines are not as commonly used.

 

[mbryson]

We don't have a common cold vaccine! But I do think the fact that COVID-19 is part of a well known family of viruses, one that we have dealt with other outbreaks in recent years (SARS etc.,) certainly helped.

Vaccine development is a challenge- not so much on safety but for efficacy. Some viruses, such as HIV, decades of efforts have not produced a reliable vaccine. Again, COVID was one that fortunately an effective vaccine was able to be developed quickly.

I am not aware (not saying it hasn't happened) of any cases of an effective vaccine against a virus being kept off the market for safety reasons (allergic reactions to vaccines against bacteria are more common because of the increased protein in the cell wall components that are usually required for an effective bacterial vaccine.)

This is especially true now that live-virus vaccines are not as commonly used.

They've been trying to develop a common cold vaccine for our whole lifetimes. I'm SURE there is research that they could and would have leveraged.

 

[xjtony]

We don't have a common cold vaccine! But I do think the fact that COVID-19 is part of a well known family of viruses, one that we have dealt with other outbreaks in recent years (SARS etc.,) certainly helped.

I read an article showing the process of trying to find alternate uses for medications (this article was not about vaccines). The process was quite interesting. Basically they compile a list of points to compare between the illness they are developing for vs other illnesses that they have treatments for. In this case they were comparing Covid 19 to other viruses that there are medications to treat. They used hundreds of data points and then looked closer at the medications that shared data points between the 2. AI and even just modern computing power should really help scientists in development of medications in the future.

 

[jeeper]

Listen to the Doctors.

 

[Herzog]

Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination? - PubMed

Antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) of infection is a safety concern for vaccine strategies. In a recent publication, Li et al. (Cell 184 :4203-4219, 2021) have reported that infection-enhancing antibodies directed against the N-terminal domain (NTD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein facilitate...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

These findings show that cov-2 antibodies (from the vaccine) are ENHANCING infection.
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From Shawn Stevenson:

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It’s ok, just trust the ones who are “smarter” than you. You know, in an ironically religious way. How dare you question the white coat clergy.

 

[gijohn40]

I haven't read all this post and pretty much dont think I will... but had to say that I have two different technicians that were vaccinated that caught covid19 last week. one in Cheyenne and on in Jackson... I am not sure which vaccine they got and it would be interesting to find out. It seems that covid is back and here to stay!