Cummins 67a recall

Pile of parts

Well-Known Member
Location
South Jordan
So, I got a recall notice regarding Cummins emissions and they want to reprogram the PCM with an "upgraded" calibration for better emission performance.

Anybody know what this means or what effects it will have on the truck? The truck runs just fine. My understanding is that Chrysler/Ram/Cummins got caught for not meeting some spec and now they have to make it right - with the gov.

I just had the emissions done yesterday. Passed just fine. I think I'll ignore the recall for now. I'd love to hear if anyone has knowledge on this.

 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wydaho
Honestly, I'd just ignore it. If you don't, that new "tune" is gonna cause your fuel mileage to tank even more under the guise of "omg global warming". But then again, with the californication of utah, they will probably have a check for it by the next year. Time for montana plates.
 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
$1.7 BILLION settlement from Cummins to the EPA for emissions "cheating". I'd be curious to know exactly what constitutes the cheating, I don't think this is nearly as deliberate as the VW TDI cheating... they knew they'd get caught and had money set aside for when it eventually happened.

I got the recall letter as well... no way I'm going to take my truck in for the recall. It's almost 10 yrs old and approaching 190k miles... the dealer doesn't need to change anything.

With the VW TDI scandal, the post recall changes to the cars drastically reduced MPG and torque... I don't know if the Cummins will have the same outcome, but I'm not going to chance it.

$1.7 billion... the fact that Cummins can take that hit and continue to stay in business is astonishing. I wonder how pissed off FCA (Dodge) is about being involved in Cummins mess.
 

Pile of parts

Well-Known Member
Location
South Jordan
With the VW TDI scandal, the post recall changes to the cars drastically reduced MPG and torque... I don't know if the Cummins will have the same outcome, but I'm not going to chance it.
That's my exact thought! Yeah, I'm not taking it in for something that's not broken. Passed emissions just fine yesterday.
 

The Rock Man

Getting Stuck!
Location
Bountiful Utah
I talked to the dealer about this yesterday and all they would say is that its a ECM flash and they "don't know what it does" but also mentioned that they can't roll it back once its done even if things go bad! Seems to me like the EPA/Government are doing what ever they can to remove something that has worked well for a long time. I spent a fair amount of time looking at blogs and other forums to see what folks are saying and it seems like its TBD still they aren't touching my truck's
 

Pile of parts

Well-Known Member
Location
South Jordan
all they would say is that its a ECM flash and they "don't know what it does" but also mentioned that they can't roll it back once its done even if things go bad!
Sounds a lot like other things the Government tries to madate... 🤔
I don't usually get political on here but I figured @Herzog would appreciate that comment.
I'm not going in for the reflash and I will do my best to never take the truck to a dealer again. I'm afraid they would reflash it without my knowledge or consent.
 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
Speculation, but some possible industry insight about the 'defeat device' relating to the Cummins EPA settlement.


"The term "defeat device" has evolved into a blanket categorization including software and hardware that illegally increases vehicle emissions for the sake of performance, efficiency, or both. It's become common parlance in the automotive industry, especially as companies including Volkswagen have been caught using said devices to skirt emissions regulations on a massive scale. From there, it spread to the vehicle aftermarket and, particularly, the diesel tuning industry.

That's where Kory Willis, founder of PPEI Tuning, fits into this. I spoke with Willis for a story I wrote in 2020 about the Environmental Protection Agency's war on modified diesel trucks, which he's especially qualified to talk about. That's because the EPA hammered him and his company with $3.1 million in criminal fines as well as civil penalties for violating the Clean Air Act. He then signed a consent decree which allows PPEI to continue selling performance upgrades so long as they're approved by the California Air Resources Board, or CARB.

Willis went on The Truck Show Podcast recently to talk about Cummins' massive settlement, and he put it plainly: "I don't think Cummins did anything wrong." He emphasized his personal experience with the 6.7-liter engine in question, saying he deals with them "20+ times a day" as PPEI provides owners with tuning adjustments and the like.
"What strikes me more than anything is, if there was a defeat device—or unless it was from day one, which I don't think is necessarily possible because I've passed CARB emissions with this stuff as well—I haven't seen any change," Willis explained. "That's where I'm very curious of what they're calling a defeat device."

The most plausible explanation is a software change within the engine's computer system, though exactly what alteration allegedly violated the Clean Air Act remains unclear. Willis mentioned this during his interview, as well as a particulate matter sensor that may have been absent or changed without approval. It's impossible to say for sure since Cummins and the DOJ have yet to disclose it officially.

While genuine insight is hard to come by in this case, there is at least one more source with relevant information to help make sense of Cummins' emissions testing debacle. That's Peter Treydte, the compliance center manager at SEMA Garage who works to help OEMs and aftermarket suppliers alike meet federal regulations. In the same episode of The Truck Show Podcast, Treydte shared some knowledge about the compliance process and what tools manufacturers use to stay within the feds' set parameters.
A crucial component is a vehicle's auxiliary emissions control device, more commonly referred to as an AECD in the manufacturing and testing realm. Both software and hardware can be classified as an AECD, and as Treydte puts it, they exist "to protect components under adverse conditions." He used the example of a device that alters the air-fuel ratio of an engine when under heavy load to prevent the catalytic converter from melting down.

"In this case, it appears that there were some AECDs that were being employed that were undisclosed to CARB and EPA," Treydte said. "So the way I interpret that is the Cummins engineers were doing their job. They were putting the effort in to ensure that the DPF and the catalysts were all protected under certain operating conditions, but in doing so, either the paperwork didn't get done or somehow or another, it wasn't disclosed to the agencies, and as a result, they're now suffering the consequences of that."

Again, this is speculation, but it's informed by Treydte's deep knowledge of the automotive emissions test cycles and regulations. It's very well possible that such a seemingly minor change would go unnoticed by tuners like Willis, especially if the AECD was a form of software that operates deep within the truck's engine control unit. These are complex systems."
 

The Rock Man

Getting Stuck!
Location
Bountiful Utah
Speculation, but some possible industry insight about the 'defeat device' relating to the Cummins EPA settlement.


"The term "defeat device" has evolved into a blanket categorization including software and hardware that illegally increases vehicle emissions for the sake of performance, efficiency, or both. It's become common parlance in the automotive industry, especially as companies including Volkswagen have been caught using said devices to skirt emissions regulations on a massive scale. From there, it spread to the vehicle aftermarket and, particularly, the diesel tuning industry.

That's where Kory Willis, founder of PPEI Tuning, fits into this. I spoke with Willis for a story I wrote in 2020 about the Environmental Protection Agency's war on modified diesel trucks, which he's especially qualified to talk about. That's because the EPA hammered him and his company with $3.1 million in criminal fines as well as civil penalties for violating the Clean Air Act. He then signed a consent decree which allows PPEI to continue selling performance upgrades so long as they're approved by the California Air Resources Board, or CARB.

Willis went on The Truck Show Podcast recently to talk about Cummins' massive settlement, and he put it plainly: "I don't think Cummins did anything wrong." He emphasized his personal experience with the 6.7-liter engine in question, saying he deals with them "20+ times a day" as PPEI provides owners with tuning adjustments and the like.
"What strikes me more than anything is, if there was a defeat device—or unless it was from day one, which I don't think is necessarily possible because I've passed CARB emissions with this stuff as well—I haven't seen any change," Willis explained. "That's where I'm very curious of what they're calling a defeat device."

The most plausible explanation is a software change within the engine's computer system, though exactly what alteration allegedly violated the Clean Air Act remains unclear. Willis mentioned this during his interview, as well as a particulate matter sensor that may have been absent or changed without approval. It's impossible to say for sure since Cummins and the DOJ have yet to disclose it officially.

While genuine insight is hard to come by in this case, there is at least one more source with relevant information to help make sense of Cummins' emissions testing debacle. That's Peter Treydte, the compliance center manager at SEMA Garage who works to help OEMs and aftermarket suppliers alike meet federal regulations. In the same episode of The Truck Show Podcast, Treydte shared some knowledge about the compliance process and what tools manufacturers use to stay within the feds' set parameters.
A crucial component is a vehicle's auxiliary emissions control device, more commonly referred to as an AECD in the manufacturing and testing realm. Both software and hardware can be classified as an AECD, and as Treydte puts it, they exist "to protect components under adverse conditions." He used the example of a device that alters the air-fuel ratio of an engine when under heavy load to prevent the catalytic converter from melting down.

"In this case, it appears that there were some AECDs that were being employed that were undisclosed to CARB and EPA," Treydte said. "So the way I interpret that is the Cummins engineers were doing their job. They were putting the effort in to ensure that the DPF and the catalysts were all protected under certain operating conditions, but in doing so, either the paperwork didn't get done or somehow or another, it wasn't disclosed to the agencies, and as a result, they're now suffering the consequences of that."

Again, this is speculation, but it's informed by Treydte's deep knowledge of the automotive emissions test cycles and regulations. It's very well possible that such a seemingly minor change would go unnoticed by tuners like Willis, especially if the AECD was a form of software that operates deep within the truck's engine control unit. These are complex systems."
This actually makes a lot of sense! The question that I still have is what is changing and what are the benefits/problems that come from the change. Example when they did the updated scr recall and dpf update it removed the on dash monitoring for dpf regen so no the only way for me to know when its happening is loss of power and mileage for a period of time.
 

85CUCVKRAWLER

Active Member
Location
Tooele
Sorry for the hijak............I got this from the law firm in Montana that handles my LLC for the motorhome. I need to do some digging to see if this is going to have any impacts on having it registered up there.

View attachment 168254

I received no such letter from my montana LLC. But they are only registered agents of my LLC, not an actual manager. Theres a legal difference.
 

Corban_White

Well-Known Member
Location
Payson, AZ
I'm not going in for the reflash and I will do my best to never take the truck to a dealer again. I'm afraid they would reflash it without my knowledge or consent.

They absolutely would, I've had it happen (on a different vehicle). Took my Tacoma in for unrelated work and they decided to hack the bottom of the gas pedal off just incase I didn't know how to install floor mats. Didn't ask me, didn't inform me, just did it. And hack is the only way I can describe the way they cut it. And this wasn't during the height of the drama, it was years later.
 

The Rock Man

Getting Stuck!
Location
Bountiful Utah
this was posted yesterday I read the CARB report but it still seems clear as mud I also watched a video of someone that had the ecm patch and he seemed to think nothing changed but he doesn't have a way to measure DEF fluid use so he 20min video really doesn't shed much light on the actual data.

 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
If the recall is DEF related and your truck is deleted, you took it into a dealer for unrelated work (not the recall) I wonder what they'd do.
 

The Rock Man

Getting Stuck!
Location
Bountiful Utah
One thing I did notice reading the carb document and some of the other things that I have read leads me believe that the flash is changing things enough in the dpf and scr that after the flash that dodge/ram has to give you an extended warranty on the emissions parts which is part of the settlement with the fed's so more than likely its pushing the threshold that the engineers from Cummins recommended/did to begin with. like cooking your dpf/scr to the point that they fail etc. Doesn't take much to ruin either of those devices beyond what the engineer designs.
 

Pile of parts

Well-Known Member
Location
South Jordan
Interesting article. The first half is all about how it will effect Cummins financially. The second half talks about what Cummins is accused of. I'm still interested to know what the recall does, but not going to find out with my truck.

 
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