Did anybody see this?
- Thread starter Coreshot
- Start date
RockMonkey
Suddenly Enthusiastic
Why is it that every freak'n place on Earth is a "Fragile Environment"? What the hell is so fragile about it? And how the hell does a Jeep crossing a river kill any endangered fish? If they're too slow or dumb to get out of the way of Jeep tires they deserve to be endangered. 
Also, what does the Mexican Spotted Owl have anything to do with it?
Also, what does the Mexican Spotted Owl have anything to do with it? 
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
That damned Lisa Church is doing her best to make us look bad again. Why doesn't she research RS2477 and write an pro-access article on that!
I say good for them for running the trail. They tried to get a permit as per the BLM's request, but after getting the run around, they altered their approach to be an 'un-official group', therefore not qualifying for the BLM's requirements.
I say good for them for running the trail. They tried to get a permit as per the BLM's request, but after getting the run around, they altered their approach to be an 'un-official group', therefore not qualifying for the BLM's requirements.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
RockMonkey said:Why is it that every freak'n place on Earth is a "Fragile Environment"? What the hell is so fragile about it? And how the hell does a Jeep crossing a river kill any endangered fish? If they're too slow or dumb to get out of the way of Jeep tires they deserve to be endangered.
But who said that? The SUWA attorney! SUWA has been known to exaggerate the truth to make their story sound that much better. They probably planted the endangered fish & mexican owl...
BlackDog
one small mod at a time
- Location
- Proudly Deported to ID
Coreshot said:Personally, I think it's pretty cool that we have government officials down there with the balls to stand up to the tree huggers. We need more of this kind of action, quit being on the defense all the time and stick it to these...
A-HOLES.
Amen
RockMonkey
Suddenly Enthusiastic
That part is cool. I think San Juan County realizes how much thier economy depends on us.Coreshot said:Personally, I think it's pretty cool that we have government officials down there with the balls to stand up to the tree huggers. We need more of this kind of action, quit being on the defense all the time and stick it to these...
A-HOLES.
S
sukaB
Guest
RockMonkey said:
Suwa Sucks;
Fay's
I love the propaganda that the SUWA and other tree huggers promote. Why don't we see articles about how tree huggers have blocked building new Gas refinerys in the USA ? And how none have been built in over 20 years and it is the reason for the high gas prices and not OPEC lower production. Gas prices are high because we cannot refine oil fast enough. But NO articles on the environmentalists and high gas prices.
P
pokeyYJ
Guest
Yeah I saw this article and the very first thing that I thought after reading it was this, "What the the purpose of mentioning the owl?" There is a VERY slim chance that my vehicle is going to run one over or do anything that could cause harm to the animal. I think that they have a semi-valid point about the river crossings though. The river crossings are fairly fagile and need to be accessed with caution.
TigerStripe40
Arrogant Bastard
- Location
- Salt Lake City
RockMonkey said:Why is it that every freak'n place on Earth is a "Fragile Environment"? What the hell is so fragile about it? And how the hell does a Jeep crossing a river kill any endangered fish? If they're too slow or dumb to get out of the way of Jeep tires they deserve to be endangered.
It's not so much the tires crushing fish, it's the tires erroding the riverbanks, causing them to wash out. Let me equate that to walkign up to your house and hitting the walls with a sledge hammer.
It's also about the crap that most vehicles leak. Oil, gear oil, antifreeze, etc. What if someone started putting antifreeze in your food, gear oil in your bed. motor oil in your clothing..... Not too pleasant, and I imagine that you wouldn't live too long.
Now the primary difference is that you are intelligent enough not to eat food with antifreeze in it. If someone starts wailing on your house with a sledge hammer, you CAN stop them. and you can always buy a new mattress and clothing to replace those soiled with the contaminants. Furthermore, there are laws out ther to protect you from someone doing that, and in most cases, those laws will also tell the person that did that to you to replace whatever you damaged. The fish in the river can not do that. They can not move some place else. There are fewer laws protecting them from what you can do to them, than what I can do to you.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
OCNORB said:
You know, that would be a great idea. Mabey have a cleanup in one of the local Canyons that see's alot of 4x4 travel, is a controversial area & is well known... AF Canyon cleanup, anyone? We'll invite Lisa Church...
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Great idea. We should all get tatoos before it too. They should all say "SUWA SUCKS!"Greg said:You know, that would be a great idea. Mabey have a cleanup in one of the local Canyons that see's alot of 4x4 travel, is a controversial area & is well known... AF Canyon cleanup, anyone? We'll invite Lisa Church...
Okay, maybe just t-shirts.
S
sukaB
Guest
Greg said:You know, that would be a great idea. Mabey have a cleanup in one of the local Canyons that see's alot of 4x4 travel, is a controversial area & is well known... AF Canyon cleanup, anyone? We'll invite Lisa Church...
And she shall ride with SUKA.......
That's not us laughing that be me while we roll over and over and over and SUKA spits her out due to lose belt........Man bitch :sick:
Then I'll pull a rodeo drag with her electric ghetto sled electrical abuser!!
That's me laughing now:
Ellen lover
TigerStripe40 said:
wow, that sounds as though it came staight out of SUWA literature...my opinion, you way over exagerated it, MOST vehicles dont leak, and even if they do its not like they stop and let it leak in the stream...another thing is WHAT fish is in that stream thats endagered? Also, as pointed out by Todd Adams on the Jeep-SLC list, the has benn NO spottings of the owl in the area, it has just been named a possible habitat for the owl. The article is the typical SUWA crap that they tend to spew and commonly over exagerate. I find it super cool that the SJ County is sticking up for what is right, not only for the revenue we bring to their county but also just cause it's the right thing to do.
I agree, lets do an AFC clean-up...clean-ups tend to come up quite often this time of year and I would guess less than half of them actually get followed through with...lets do it this year
TigerStripe40 said:
The trail crosses the stream in several places, the SAME several places it has crossed it for 50-100 years. You can't tell me that the river even has banks to be eroded at these points. In between crossings, there is plenty of habitat for the "endangered" fish. You seem to be the authority on the matter, so why don't you tell us exactly which species it is that's endangered. It's very easy for enviros to say that endangered species are there, and the public takes it for the truth. As for your comment about us having more rights than the animals, it kind of goes along with being at the top of the food chain.
I thought this forum was for rock crawling enthusiasts, not SUWA loving hippies that happen to have a Land Cruiser. One more thing, does your "custom tiger striped dash" help your 2F leak less?
I don't know tigerstripe and he may be a SUWA hippy lover for all I know but I think his point was that trucks crossing rivers can hurt the fish habitat. He was responding to Rockmonkys statement that 4x4s don't affect the fish and so what if they do. I think we would all be better off if we admit the damage we do and try to minimize it as best we can. We do affect the environment and to say that we have no effect on the land lowers our credibility because the effects are visibile to everyone. At the same time we must fight false claims harder. SUWA and other greenies constantly spew false claims that are almost never rebutted because the OHV community has very little voice in the mainstream media. This Jeep Jamboree run has been controversial for at least 13 years that I know of. It seems to me (and my memory is not allways great) that it used to be fragile indian artifacts and ruins that the greens said needed to be protected from the destuctive tires of the evil Jeeps. I can't remember them saying anything about fish or owls.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Of course we all impact the environment. Everything impacts the environment. But there is a difference between crossing a stream on a well established trail, and blasting across a body of water driving over vegetation and making your own new mud bog. Nothing reamins the same forever, not even I-15. But blatant abuse isn't right either.