Expedition vehicle

[Cascadia]

What is the ideal backcountry vehicle? Not looking for a hardcore wheeler. Thinking about just some 2 day trips, nothing too long. What vehicle would be very dependable, comfortable, easily and not expensively modified, and be under $5k? It would possibly carry a rtt, and would need room for a car seat.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

1. I don't know how one defines an 'expedition' but I don't think personally a 2 day trip remotely qualifies. Opinions will obviously vary but it sounds to me like you want to do some car camping
2. I don't think there is a 'one-size fits-all' approach to vehicles, it needs to fit your needs not those of others right? Perhaps that is why you have auto ADD, you worry about what others think you should have and not what you need. The ideal backcountry vehicle for some could be a Susuki Samurai, they have successfully navigated the globe and have plenty of aftermarket support. For another it could be a Mercedes station wagon, they too have been around the world, have stout drivetrains, killer fuel range and can handle many of the worlds 'expedition' routes. Given that are your needs, I'd recommend the following, in no particular order:

AMC Car
Chevy Tahoe
Chevy Blazer
Chevy Truck
Chevy Van
Dodge Truck
Dodge Van
Dodge Powerwagon
Dodge Raider
Ford Bronco
Ford Explorer
Ford Expedition
Ford Truck
Ford Van
Isuzu Trooper
Isuzu Vehicross
Jeep CJ
Jeep XJ
Jeep Wranger
Jeep Truck
Land Rover Range Rover
Land Rover Discovery
Land Rover Defender
Land Rover Series
Mitsubish Montero
Suzuki Samurai
Suzuki Sidekick
Toyota Pickup
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Mini-Van
Toyota Previa
Toyota Celica Wagon
Toyota Rav4

Start adding some personal quantitative and qualitative requirements (fuel economy, range, seats, tire size, engine size, payload, tow capacity, etc) and one can narrow it from there. For me, I'd start with the Toyota and narrow my list from there

My point being, there is inevitably someone, somewhere using one of those vehicles for some back country touring and its the 'ideal' rig for them as it fits their needs and they are out using it in the wilds. It seems too many get hung up on 'how' or 'what' to build and skip the 'am I actually going to use or enjoy it' category. For instance, you've had a spectrum of 4x4's, what made them un-ideal for a couple day camping trip for your needs?

 

[Cascadia]

Ha. True, 2 days isn't an expedition. It may be car camping to you but like you said to me it is getting out and exploring. My wife and I would like to get out an see the back roads and cool things of Utah. 2 days may turn into more but it is a starting point and with an 8 month old it is an even bigger event. Even though Davy has his kids carrying their own packs at 8 weeks. I guess my boy's a wuss.

Depending on the vehicle I would like 33-35" tires, decent but not amazing gas mileage, but more than anything dependability.

I do have auto add but I am trying to cure it by building my ideal vehicle rather than looking for it. And I know my "build" is weak compared to others but I don't want to get in over my head or overdue it.

Im just rambling now...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I am trying to cure it by building my ideal vehicle rather than looking for it...

Exactly my point, I don't think your going to accomplish this without making a decision on your own or at least narrowing in on some options and from there soliciting opinions. At this point its like trying to decide your favorite Mexican dish by asking what other people like to eat at Del Taco lol. I'm a street taco guy, but try them before you decide

If I and I want to emphasize the I were in your shoes and needed a 4 door, 4x4 that is reliable and under $5k, I would honestly look at either a 4Runner, XJ, Montero or Trooper. All have good aftermarket support. But before you spend $5k on a rig, a dime on a RTT or go buying a fridge. Plan a trip, pack a cooler and go take your Tundra and decide what you need that it doesn't offer. 95% of Utah's 'expedition trails' (again that word is very blurry, often misused in place of car-camping for gear junkies ) can be easily traversed in a Tundra in fact I know a couple of extremely season Utah explorers that use their Tundra as their DD, camping rig and beyond. Otherwise your going to buy a rig, spend a bunch of time building, a little time using and decide it too has something that doesn't fit your needs. Hell I don't think my Tacoma is always the ideal rig for the job but it is 'most' of the time and I have a major desire to see things in Utah not duplicate my efforts over and over by buying and building. For some the thrill is in the build and I don't want to imply that that is the wrong way to go about things, hobbies are hobbies and I can 100% see how building up different vehicles and moving onto the next one is a legit and satisfying hobby. Lets be real, I collect Coleman lanterns and stoves, who am I to tease about a mans hobby lol.

Too be honest I think one (saying this to all reading, not you in particular) need to decide if they really like the idea of 'expedition' wheeling or if its simply something other than what they were currently doing or didn't like about 'rock-crawling' or others. From a user and retailer standpoint I've watched it happen over and over and over. You had a guy that builds a gorgeous Tacoma or TJ, loaded for the rocks but then decides after the first few dents and scratches that "expedition wheeling" (their words not mine ) is a better use of their time and money. Well, when they haven't had a shower in 5 days, have been driving for 2 days straight and the weather is moving in... they quickly realize they just are not into 'expeditioning' either and they really just enjoy day trips up American Fork Canyon and a trip or two to Moab each year. Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but lets call it what it is and be honest with ourselves. Next thing you know their roof-top-tent and fridge are for sale and they are looking to trade a snorkel and a fender with hole in it for a clean one sans hole. It has happened a time or two Fwiw, I try and talk people out of some items until they have really proven to themselves they need it, I don't want them to prove it to me with their credit card if I feel like they are not going to get their monies worth out of it, while that fills my tank a few times on the short term, on the back-end it only serves to leave me with a customer that doubts my advise and feels like I'm purely a salesman, I prefer to act as a consultant who carries parts. Take it for what its worth.

 

[Cascadia]

I always like your opinions. Very straight forward and what one needs to hear. In my defense, and I know you didn't point fingers, but I have never managed to even get a dent or scratch. No matter how hard I've tried, sliders and corner guards have kept my rigs safe. So that's not scaring me away. I think I'm just tired of seeing everyone else's pics on here and showing the wife and we want to see it for ourselves. Maybe I need to plan a trip in my tundra like you said.

 

[Maverick]

What is the ideal backcountry vehicle? Not looking for a hardcore wheeler. Thinking about just some 2 day trips, nothing too long. What vehicle would be very dependable, comfortable, easily and not expensively modified, and be under $5k? It would possibly carry a rtt, and
would need room for a car seat.

LOL you tell us! You've owned and driven nearly everything out there. But really, any 4x4 that fits your family and some camping gear.

Under $5k? Well, anything on Kurt's list that is under $5k. Better make it a 4-door if you have a baby. Btdt.

If that is my budget, and you want 33's or 35's, this is what I'd do: Find a '91 Chev suburban, 3/4 ton, slap a 4" lift on it and put a lockrite in the back. 35's. Mount a hitch in the front and get a multi mount winch. Or just fab a winch bumper. Done.

Check out my blower blazer build. I'm into it about $3400. (not counting the snowblower)

If you can live with 285's (basically 32's) any 4dr Tahoe will do. Or extended cab pickup. Or 4-runner.

Or an XJ! $5k goes a long way with that. Actually, I would do that one first. But I didn't, I did it fourth (bronco, blazer, sammy, cherokee)

Have fun!

 

[SAMI]

35" tires?! Bro, you've got it all wrong... 255/85-16's; nothing more, nothing less. White exterior paint. No electronic windows or doors; can't have frilly electronics fail in the middle of the Pony Express Trail. Limb risers, to kid yourself that they do anything other than drying the diarrhea onsie that Cascadia Jr just 'sploded in. Bright green recovery hooks; because that's Expo. RTT, and awning; ground tents DNF any "expo" on the spot... Demoted to car-camping.

Probably oughta toss in a snorkel, and a solar charging station with signal boost so Facebook and Instagram can be continually updated about your expo. Oh, and a SPOT device in case you need a tire change out by White Rocks, or the Spiral Jetty.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I think I'm just tired of seeing everyone else's pics on here and showing the wife and we want to see it for ourselves. Maybe I need to plan a trip in my tundra like you said.

Right on, I think you should hook up with Steve H. on one of his upcoming trips or plan a fun multi-day trip around the Uintas this fall while the colors are still hopping. You may find it does everything you need.

 

[Cascadia]

Thanks Sami. I'll keep all those options in mind once I find something.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

35" tires?! Bro, you've got it all wrong... 255/85-16's; nothing more, nothing less. White exterior paint. No electronic windows or doors; can't have frilly electronics fail in the middle of the Pony Express Trail. Limb risers, to kid yourself that they do anything other than drying the diarrhea onsie that Cascadia Jr just 'sploded in. Bright green recovery hooks; because that's Expo. RTT, and awning; ground tents DNF any "expo" on the spot... Demoted to car-camping.

Probably oughta toss in a snorkel, and a solar charging station with signal boost so Facebook and Instagram can be continually updated about your expo. Oh, and a SPOT device in case you need a tire change out by White Rocks, or the Spiral Jetty.

Your forgetting the fedora and titanium plates!

Oh, and just in case Sami doesn't know, ExPo is a forum, not a place, activity, lifestyle, clothing choice, vehicle build or vacation option.

 

[Rot Box]

There's no such thing as a do it-all/please everyone rig trust me. I've spent too long trying to narrow down the best rig for my needs and while its not perfect this is what I ended up with. To this day I am very happy with it and its been all over the backcountry in UT, ID, WY, MT and it hasn't skipped a beat. The only rigs I'd trade it for are WAY out of my price range or not available in the US.

1991 F#$D..... I mean 1991 Ford F350 4x4.

Pros:

-Very popular and common body style built for many years. Parts are literally everywhere OEM or aftermarket and they can be had for a very good price.
-1 ton drivetrain. Stout. Kindpin Dana60 front, full floating rear and bulletproof 5 speed manual transmission with low first gear. Leaf spring suspension is simple and actually rides nice off-road.
-7.3 IDI mechanical diesel engine. Well over 400 miles per fill up. Simple, Reliable, powerful, good fuel mileage, cheap to maintain and replacement parts are common and available everywhere.
-Crew cab. Comfortably fits car seat(s), several adults, dogs, junk, crap etc. Centurian package interior includes pillow top captain seats and large center consoles front and rear. I can drive across the state of Utah and not have a sore butt hehe
-Four wheel camper. Light weigh and compact. Pop the top and you have room/storage/sleeping for up to 4 adults or in my case 2 adults 1 4yr old and two dogs. Stove, fridge, storage, sink, furnace (cooks you out when camping in Dec-Feb )


Cons:

-Anything but a rock crawler.
-Looooonnnngggggg. Approach and departure angles are decent but the middle really gets in the way LOL.
-Made in America and not built by Toyota or Honda LOL. It has been more than reliable however nickel and dime problems are common and annoying. Switches, motors, wiring and relays and other things Ford screwed up along with it being 20 years old.
-Cumbersome. Its big and full size.
-Weight. Don't get stuck or its all over!

 

[Maverick]

Maybe I need to plan a trip in my tundra like you said.

You already have a Tundra??!? Gas it up, throw in some camping gear, and go!

Have fun!

 

[SAMI]

Your forgetting the fedora and titanium plates!

Oh, and just in case Sami doesn't know, ExPo is a forum, not a place, activity, lifestyle, clothing choice, vehicle build or vacation option.

So, JL Rockies lies? I knew I shouldn't trust a non-bacon eater.

 

[Rot Box]

You already have a Tundra??!? Gas it up, throw in some camping gear, and go!

Have fun!

^ This. Agreed whats the problem?

 

[Cascadia]

Not a problem, but problem is I got the truck for work and don't want to spend more time in it than I have to. I would prefer something smaller that is always equipped and ready to go. Rather than cleaning out my truck and tools and stuff like that everytime we want to go.

 

[thefirstzukman]

As much as I dislike Jeeps......... I can pick up a Cherokee for nearly nothing anymore at the auctions, they are a dime a dozen. I've thought about it a time or two, ill bet you can pick one up and lift it with wheels and tires for 5k. Check out westernhunters Cherokee, I like the narrow 32" tires and the rear is all set up with storage and a arb fridge... It wheels really good and parts are abundant.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Lots of amazing and insightful advice here that many people (myself included) need to heed. From one addict to another, this advice will help you. This advice is helpful for general population reading this, not just you.

I think you like the idea of being prepared and ready to go at any minute, but have you ever decided to up and leave and go camping within 10 min of the idea popping into your head?

Do you want an expo-looking rig, or do you want to go camping/exploring? If you liked camping/exploring that much, then you'd go all the time, regardless of the vehicle. You wouldn't let your vehicle prevent you from exploring.

I like airmanwilliams, he is a super nice guy who would give anyone the shirt off his back. What I also like about him is that he admits that his mods are for looks, not for wheeling. Now, i'm not saying you're like him, i've seen you wheel some really tough trails before. You've got skill and you've been out a lot. But consider the idea that the main reason (whether they know it or not) people spend thousands on their vehicle is for looks. Airman does it, but he admits that it's all for looks, and that's perfectly fine.

I caught myself watching others' build threads and i find myself thinking "i want a rig exactly like that." In the past, I'd get so fixated on a certain build that I'd decide I needed it, and I'd sell my current rig at that time to entertain that fixation. After doing this for 5-10 times, I started to ask myself why I wasn't happy with these incredible vehicles that everyone else was so happy with. I started to realize that I liked the way the truck looked, or the features/specs it had, and I then tried to talk myself into believing that I had a legitimate need for the same vehicle. In reality, I fabricated a reason to get it, and I really just fell in love with the looks and the idea of the vehicle. I had it all backwards. I was inventing needs for rigs, instead of inventing rigs for my needs, my TRUE needs. At this point in my life, I could totally get by with an old beater trooper, cr-v, rav4, 4runner, tracker, you name it. They'd all get me where I want to go.

Lay out your priorities and build a vehicle to those. Here are my needs/priorities (in order of importance)


- I constantly need projects going on in my life. I go crazy without them. This vehicle could become my project, or I could have a different type of project that is non-vehicle related
- I need to be out in nature regularly or I go crazy
- I need to share this experience with my wife and dog
- I need to create memories with them.

I feel that a vehicle with the following requirements would allow me to do that:

- must be reliable
- must have awd and a decent amount of ground clearance (a subaru isn't quite tall enough for my needs)
- must fit my budget​

Nice-to haves:
- cool looking
- rugged
- good aftermarket support
- good MPG
- it'd be cool if I could sleep in the back
- power is nice, but not necessary. If it's a small, reliable engine, that'll be fine. A fast V8 would be awesome, but it's not a priority or a need.


When I built my current truck, I built it around the specific trails I wanted to wheel. I wanted to be able to do Hole in the Rock and the Rubicon Trail, and still be very streetworthy and fun on long dirt roads. I made sure that as soon as I built it, I ran those trails. Building it for those trails, but never wheeling them, is counterintuitive. A lot of guys want a rig that's "capable enough to do X trail without breaking" but they never take it even close to that level. In your case, I think that'd be wasted money/effort. Currently, I can't think of a single thing I don't like about my rig. I absolutely love it. It's been my favorite rig I've ever owned and I have owned it far longer than any other rig. I love it because it allows me to do the things I love more: be with my family, be in nature, make memories. I've stopped looking for excuses to sell vehicles, and I've started focusing more on my priorities. WHen I do that, I don't let a small insignificant thing like an oil leak, or a slipping clutch, or something like that make me get rid of a vehicle that really has it where it counts.


If I didn't have my current vehicle, I could see myself being totally happy with a 3rd gen single-cab pickup on 31's with a rear aussie locker, sliders, and 4.7 low gears. For expedition purposes, a bone stock 3rd gen would rock.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Tyson, you're a good friend. I feel like I'm the closest person who's been in the same boat of vehicular add. I'm not cured, and I'll always like owning new vehicles, but I've found the following advice to help me a lot. I share this with you as a friend, to help you. I don't mean to belittle or make fun of you at all, I hope you take it the right way.

I'm one of those guys who learns best by experience. It's an expensive way to learn, but it is what it is. "Expedition" wheeling means a million different things to a million different people. Here are a few things I've learned about "expedition" style wheeling.

1) My version of "expedition" is car-camping on dirt roads over 2-5 day periods.
2) The roads that most people go on for "expeditions" are so easy that a subaru can make it just fine. 35" tires are actually worse than stock tires. You don't need big tires because you're not crawling over big obstacles most of the time. Some "expedition" trails are rougher than others (Hole in the Rock, sections of the swell, the Rubicon, river crossings, etc) but 90% of the places people take their "expedition" rig, you could get a subaru there in good weather. The rock-crawling mods are downsides to expedition-style wheelign. (with a few exceptions like a locker or a winch or bumpers)
3) For a lot of people, expeditions have become more about the gear than the actualy trip. Do I think Rooftop tents are sexy? Absolutely. Do I need one? No. In fact, I have two solutions that work BETTER for my needs. But they're not very cool alternatives. I don't need a snorkel, a fridge, a winch, or a built-in GPS navigation, or a roof rack. Would they be handy? You bet, but they don't make the expedition. They all have a purpose and they all do things that you can't do [as well] without them. But the gear doesn't make a vehicle that much better for expeditions.
4) I like expeditions, but I also love driving on the freeway, and getting good MPG, and rock-crawling from time to time. I don't have to fit into a certain type of mold to have fun. I like driving trucks offroad, exploring offroad, exploring on-road, and camping. I am lucky enough to have a vehicle that allows me to do all of those. To me, wheeling has become about making new friends, making new memories with old friends/family, and experiencing the peace and tranquility that I can only get from nature.​

Ask yourself these questions:

A) if expedition portal didn't exist, and there was no such thing as the big "expedition" trend/style, what would you be into? What are your goals? What 5 areas/trails/trips do you want to go on in the next 6 months?

B) Why don't you want to use your tundra for expeditions? What's the real reason? You can invent pseudo-reasons, like "I don't want to take my tools out", but that's not a valid enough reason to totally dismiss a vehicle as an exploring vehicle. It's an excuse for a deeper underlying reason. If you want 3 vehicles, cool, that's different. If you like the feelign of purchasing something, that's different. If you like the excitement of building something with your own hands, that's another thing. Or if you want the look of something that can handle a safari through Africa. You don't need to do a single mod to a tundra to do 90% of the "expedition" trips out there. Even if you had the following, I bet you wouldn't use them until you're going out every month:
- bumper
- winch
- sliders
- snorkel
- lift
- bigger tires

What's the underlying reason you don't want to wheel your tundra? If I had to guess, I'd say it's because you want to modify something, and the tundra is perfect for work duties as is, and modifying it would make it worse for work.

C) Your Tacoma had the perfect "expedition" setup. Why didn't you take it out? I know it didn't work as a work vehicle for you, but it was the ideal cookie-cutter expedition rig. What prevented you from getting out in it?

D) How often have you gone camping in the past two years? How often do you plan on going camping in the future? If you're only going twice a year, it's not worth getting a second vehicle, your wife's Tuareg will be a suitable expedition vehicle.

E) are you creating a "need" to justify a "want?" Do you really need a 3rd vehicle for expeditions, or do you want/I] a 3rd vehicle to play with? It's ok to get a 3rd vehicle because you want it, just don't deceive yourself by creating "needs", otherwise your rig will never meet those artificial needs.​

My wife just read this to me, from "the great divorce" by CS Lewis:

" Our opinions were not honestly come by. We simply found ourselves in contact with a certain current of ideas and plunged into it because it seemed modern and successful..."

I feel that you've done a good job of creating your own opinions through experience. Make sure you're doing the same with your needs; make sure they're honestly come by. Do you need a third "expedition" vehicle? Do you need something that you can be ready to go at the drop of a hat? Do you need big tires? Or are they borrowed "needs" from other people? Or even if they're wants, why are they wants? Are they borrowed wants because they seem modern/successful/cool/whatever?

Once again, these are deep, insightful, rhetorical questions to ask yourself. You don't need to answer these questions publicly on the forum, but you do need to answer them for yourself. Pay special attention to the "why" you need something. Some justifications are absolutely valid, and you shouldn't feel bad about wanting something. I've been through this. Until I was able to ask these questions, I kept flipping a vehicle because I built it according to the "needs" that other people determined for me, not needs that I honestly came by on my own. Once I learned to say "I don't care what people think. If they think my bumper is ugly, I don't care, because it works for me and it suits my needs." People have tried to talk me into a standard front-bumper-mount winch. I think they're super handy, and they're a GREAT tool for a lot of others' needs, but it didn't meet my needs, so I got something that did.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Sorry to ramble buddy, I've been there and I'm really trying to help. I think a lot of people (especially myself) could really benefit from heeding this advice.

Remember, you'll never find a vehicle that's the perfect balance of everything. In fact, you probably won't find a vehicle that's "close enough" for all of your needs. Once you embrace the idea that the "perfect" vehicle, or even "close enough" vehicle doesn't exist, it's quite liberating, and you won't be looking for excises to get rid of it and get something else.

One other thought, everyone wants 4 doors, reliability, cheap, awesome MPG, and cool looking. It doesn't exist. You've got to make a prioritized wish-list and say "my vehicle MUST fit top 2 criteria, but the rest are just nice to haves." If you can't do that, you will always be dissatisfied.



Now, to answer your original question, here are my recommendations:

1) your tundra as is, no mods
2) a 2nd gen 4runner with the 22re
3) a 3rd gen 4runner with the 3.4L/auto combination
4) an XJ/ZJ
5) a trooper, pathfinder, rodeo, passport
6) a tracker/sidekick
7) a Tahoe


The only trucks with 4 doors are either super expensive (tacomas) or super big (full-size). So that only leaves SUVs. Just about any 4x4 suv that is reliable would work for ya. What makes this sport so much fun is the ability to have a unique vehicle with personality that still completes these trails well.

 

[thefirstzukman]

Sorry to ramble buddy, I've been there and I'm really trying to help. I think a lot of people (especially myself) could really benefit from heeding this advice.

Remember, you'll never find a vehicle that's the perfect balance of everything. In fact, you probably won't find a vehicle that's "close enough" for all of your needs. Once you embrace the idea that the "perfect" vehicle, or even "close enough" vehicle doesn't exist, it's quite liberating, and you won't be looking for excises to get rid of it and get something else.

One other thought, everyone wants 4 doors, reliability, cheap, awesome MPG, and cool looking. It doesn't exist. You've got to make a prioritized wish-list and say "my vehicle MUST fit top 2 criteria, but the rest are just nice to haves." If you can't do that, you will always be dissatisfied.



Now, to answer your original question, here are my recommendations:

1) your tundra as is, no mods
2) a 2nd gen 4runner with the 22re
3) a 3rd gen 4runner with the 3.4L/auto combination
4) an XJ/ZJ
5) a trooper, pathfinder, rodeo, passport
6) a tracker/sidekick
7) a Tahoe


The only trucks with 4 doors are either super expensive (tacomas) or super big (full-size). So that only leaves SUVs. Just about any 4x4 suv that is reliable would work for ya. What makes this sport so much fun is the ability to have a unique vehicle with personality that still completes these trails well.

Yes you will..... It's called a Samurai!!!!