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Flag Etiquette - Half Staff Displays

britney

britney

Queen of Chit!!
Location
Chit-Chat, Duh!!
In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.
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Wouldn't you say that he falls into the other officials category?
 
Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Location
Never Far From Nowhere
STPPINZ said:
Give me a break about this whole church and state thing. That is bull crap. I am so sick of hearing that. Go to Rome and see who influences the government. Go to any of those Bible bashing towns in the South and see what group influences the local government. Its nothing unique to Utah. Deal with it.

About the flag at half staff, I agree with you, but hardly any of the flag edict is followed these days. I just find it annoying that nothing much was said when the flags were at half staff after the VT shootings or 9/11 (No government officials were killed in those events to my knowledge),but when a LDS Prophet dies people care... Hypocritical don't you think.
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Technically the separation of church and state only means that the state may not designate an official state religion (such as Italy and Catholicism). But obviously if the majority of the population of a region are of a certain religion, it is impossible to not feel its influence on politics.
The reason people are upset this time around is that it was a religious figure that has merited it. Thats a touchy subject for many people. The Virginia Tech shootings were tragic, but I agree did not merit the flag being lowered to half mast either. September 11th on the other hand did. 3,000 people dying, hundreds of public servants (Police, Firefighters). This is what is considered a national tragedy, and as such merits the flag being lowered to half mast.
All this being said, like the constitution, this is all malleable. How we treat the flag is dependent on the times and situations. Nothing is set in stone. If the governor feels that lowering the flag, then that is his prerogative being the states chief executive.
 
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Cody

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
britney said:
Wouldn't you say that he falls into the other officials category?
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The flag is a symbol of our government. A religious figure has no affiliation with the government (theoretically).

His death was expected. It wasn't an act of defiance aimed towards American citizens such as 9-11 or the Virginia Tech (although I think that want didn't warrent recognition, although tragic). If he was killed in an act of terrorism by a foreign body, then I could see this as he is a prominant figure.

Did the bible belt lower the flag when the Pope died a couple years ago? That would be interesting to find out actually.
 
M

MR.CJ-7

Your Realtor
Location
Woods Cross, UT
I was wondering when the half mast order would come down. I too thought it shouldn't apply. Sure he was a good leader of the church, but like said above, what about seperation of church and state.

I was watching a news clip sunday night and they showed GBH giving the invocation at the dedication of the capital. I said WTF where was the seperation of church and state there. An invocation at a state building dedication...Give me a break. I didn't see the catholic, protestant, or other religons representing and giving invocation. Bias...I think so, then again as said above this is the promised land of zion.
 
Skylinerider

Skylinerider

Wandering the desert
Location
Ephraim
Cody said:
The flag is a symbol of our government. A religious figure has no affiliation with the government (theoretically).

His death was expected. It wasn't an act of defiance aimed towards American citizens such as 9-11 or the Virginia Tech (although I think that want didn't warrent recognition, although tragic). If he was killed in an act of terrorism by a foreign body, then I could see this as he is a prominant figure.

Did the bible belt lower the flag when the Pope died a couple years ago? That would be interesting to find out actually.
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/04/20050402-3.html

;)

Or how about Bob Hope
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030728-9.html

Or Rosa Parks
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/10/20051030-1.html
 
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SAMI

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
Cody said:
The flag is a symbol of our government. A religious figure has no affiliation with the government (theoretically).
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debatable.. wasn't our counrty founded on the belief of God.. and freedom of religion? thus, a very distinct connection between church and gov...

just a thought
 
Bucking Bronco

Bucking Bronco

................
Location
Layton
I think that the lowering of the flag has been trivialized in the past for many reasons. This particular instance may or may not be warranted but I do think we should reserve the lowering of the flag for military.

But I also see people jump on anything they can to create controversy over religion just to get there 15 minutes in.
 
TRNDRVR

TRNDRVR

IMA BUM
Location
North Ogden, UT
SRN said:
How we treat the flag is dependent on the times and situations. Nothing is set in stone. If the governor feels that lowering the flag, then that is his prerogative being the states chief executive.
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Really?
USFlag.org said:
FLYING THE FLAG AT HALF-STAFF: The pertinent section of the Flag Code says, "by order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possesion, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.
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Huh!
 
TRNDRVR

TRNDRVR

IMA BUM
Location
North Ogden, UT
Cody

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
SAMI said:
debatable.. wasn't our counrty founded on the belief of God.. and freedom of religion? thus, a very distinct connection between church and gov...

just a thought
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It was founded by some religious people, but not founded on religion. Many of the founding fathers (and the most influential ones) were Deist and had no Christian agenda to promote. We were founded originally by people in pursuit or religious freedom that was not allowed in Europe due to the church and the state being one and the same. Our founding documents were written with a mind to prevent church and state from combining thus preventing the religious persecution they had experienced.

Religion is a personal belief. Your personal beliefs obviously are going to effect your voice in government and that’s fine. But when the agenda of the church itself is being served by the government, that is bad. Or if the church attempts to use its influence over government officials that are of a certain faith to gain a political advantage--ya thats bad too.
 
SAMI

SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
Cody said:
It was founded by some religious people, but not founded on religion. Many of the founding fathers (and the most influential ones) were Deist and had no Christian agenda to promote. We were founded originally by people in pursuit or religious freedom that was not allowed in Europe due to the church and the state being one and the same. Our founding documents were written with a mind to prevent church and state from combining thus preventing the religious persecution they had experienced.

Religion is a personal belief. Your personal beliefs obviously are going to effect your voice in government and that’s fine. But when the agenda of the church itself is being served by the government, that is bad. Or if the church attempts to use its influence over government officials that are of a certain faith to gain a political advantage--ya thats bad too.
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agreed
 
TRNDRVR

TRNDRVR

IMA BUM
Location
North Ogden, UT
Skylinerider said:
Pretty sure in your first post it gives the same right to the Governer.
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USFlag.org said:
In the event of the death a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that state, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff."
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And GBH's "official" capacity was what?
 
Herzog

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wydaho
SAMI said:
debatable.. wasn't our counrty founded on the belief of God.. and freedom of religion? thus, a very distinct connection between church and gov...

just a thought
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Wrong. And there were other reasons for the founding of our country other than the freedom of religion, which is an interpretation in and of itself.

A direct connection between the (any) church (an other organizations) is what the fore-fathers wanted to prevent.
 
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