Gas VS Diesel what to look for.

There is no way a diesel is reasonable as a daily driver unless you own a landscaping company.

The thing about diesels is they get really crappy mileage until they warm up which isn't 5 or 10 miles in the winter. Figure in the initial premium you pay for the truck, the added fuel cost, $100 oil changes and you will never come out ahead. If something breaks you will spend the price of a decent older gas truck to repair the diesel engine. I love my Excursion with the PSD but it sits most of the time unless the whole family is going together or I am pulling something. The best part about the scurg is when I go riding with 3 or 4 friends we can all ride in comfort and when everyone pitches in for fuel it's almost bearable.

I would follow the advice already given and buy and older truck and a 4 cylinder car. Then you get the best of both worlds.

I also really like my PSD X, and I agree that the gasser supercrew I drive is "easier" as a daily driver. Like glockman, my X now sits most of the time, which is ok because of the uber-expensive tires on it. I don't pay for the tires on the pickup. Or the insurance. Or the oil changes.

However, I used my X as a daily driver for a few years and was fine with it, you could even say that it was "reasonable". In the winter I have it plugged in on a timer, starts warming around 4-5 am, no problem when I head to the gym at 6, in fact, on cold mornings I drive it instead of scraping ice off the pickup. It's blowing warm air before I leave the neighborhood. It gets used on the weekends to go to the cabin, pull toys, etc. It's really not that bad to live with, and I really enjoy driving it, especially when I can cruise along for a while, but even my 6 mile commute to work on 13th east isn't bad. I'm sure to honk as I pass Cruiser Outfitters.

Back to towing: gas, diesel, whatever. It all works. I don't pull any faster with my X than my '99 burb, but it gets moving easier and has an easier time doing it. Towing with my '81 1/2 ton burb stressed me out and pushed me to the '99 3/4ton burb. It did great, but it developed some other issues and I wanted to try diesel. I don't like to be stressed when I tow, and the X affords me that. I'm (usually) not holding up traffic, and not thrashing the engine/transmission, etc. To me it's well worth the price of admission.

1/2ton vs 3/4ton vs 1ton is the more important consideration. I didn't mention it above the but the most important thing is handling the load and especially emergency manuevers. Three situations come to mind.

First was several years ago in Moab, we were headed out of town in my '99 burb on a rescue, and my buddy's jeep was on my trailer (so he could help fetch the stranded rig). South end of town we were starting to speed up and someone pulled out right in front of us. My friend braced for impact cuz in his mind, based on his experience towing with his (as I recall) 1/2ton Dodge, there was no way to avoid impact. I quickly braked and didn't even need to swerve; there was no panic or really any drama. Heavy burb, good brakes, trailer brakes, etc, did the job. He was amazed. He upgraded his truck.

2nd was on I-15 northbound in Lehi, coming home from Moab(?) a few years ago in the X. Jeep on the trailer, 65-70ish, middle lane, heavy traffic, safe following distance. Suddenly there's brakes lights everywhere and the guy next to me in the left lane swerved in front of me as he slammed on the brakes. This time I thought I was gonna go through him and the 2 cars in front of him. I stood on the brake pedal and braced for impact. Brakes worked, steering wheel kept me a little busy for a second and there were lots of funny sounds, but no impact, just some excess adrenaline for a few minutes. And a huge sigh of relief. No idea what caused all the brake lights and sudden slowdown, just glad that we dodged the bullet.

3rd wasn't really me, it was an observation by my son Matt, who was 10-11 at the time (maybe younger?), commenting on a neighbor's new mega-monster camper trailer to pull with their newish 1/2ton burb, "Dad, can it handle the load?" and my response to him was maybe, but I wouldn't do it. I commented to the neighbor, "that's a lot of trailer for a 1/2ton". "Oh, it will be fine." A week later it ended up on it's side, destroyed.

I have more examples that I won't bore you with, and I'm sure many of you do too, along with plenty of experiences pulling a skid-steer with a ZJ and it was "just fine". Ok.

Let us know what you end up with.
 
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LT.

Well-Known Member
I may have to retract my previous post about not wanting to use a ram 1500 hemi for towing. A friend of mine, who I trust, states that his hemi does very well towing. He is only towing about 7500 lbs but, he claims it does a bit better than his 5.3 Chevy he has. It is my experience that the hemi is a rev happy motor and I still have some doubts about such a little motor doing well but, I guess if you keep the rpm's up it may do just fine.

LT.
 

spencevans

Overlander
Location
Farmington
It is interesting that so many people have had poor experiences with diesels. I have a 2005 Duramax Crew Cab with a manual transmission I have been considering trading in for a new diesel truck. I have really been on the fence about it because my Duramax is such great shape and it gets amazing fuel mileage. I have never seen below 19MPG on a tank and I have seen over 25mpg several times when I get out on the open road and I have not made any mods to the truck. Because of my experience with this Duramax 6 speed manual and from my conversations with others, I have come to realize this MPG on a Duramax with a manual is very average. I just wish they made more of them. I know that some of the older Dodge Cummins also achieved excellent mpg's as well. If you can get a hold of a 2001-2005 Duramax with a manual transmission I would recommend them if you are looking to get great MPG.

After a lot of thought the plan is to keep the truck and then reevaluate when the 2014 Dodge 1500 diesels are introduces. I am interested to see what kind of mileage a Duramax with a Manual transmission can achieve with a few modifications.:D
 
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mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
It is interesting that so many people have had poor experiences with diesels. I have a 2005 Duramax Crew Cab with a manual transmission I have been considering trading in for a new diesel truck. I have really been on the fence about it because my Duramax is such great shape and it gets amazing fuel mileage. I have never seen below 19MPG on a tank and I have seen over 25mpg several times when I get out on the open road and I have not made any mods to the truck. Because of my experience with this Duramax manual and from my conversations with others this milage on a Duramax manual is very average. I just wish they made more of them. I know that some of the older Dodge Cummins also achieved excellent mpg's as well. If you can get a hold of a 2001-2005 Duramax with a manual transmission I would recommend them if you are looking to get great MPG.



rare as hens teeth......any diesel manual trans in unbeat by Bubba shape but esp a Duramax
 

spencevans

Overlander
Location
Farmington
rare as hens teeth......any diesel manual trans in unbeat by Bubba shape but esp a Duramax

You are right. They are very rare, especially with a crew cab. It's not the best vehicle to drive around town cause it's a pain to park and trying to talk on the phone and drive is a challenge. Other than that I really like the thing. I wish GM and ford still offered a manual transmission but the Alison is a good compromise.
 

alwaysxj

one hot moma!!!!
Location
Smithfield
So I have some guy that might be buying my truck so I have been looking for a replacement. I found a 12V for what sounds like a pretty good deal. I am still not sure about spending over 10k with something with 275k miles though. can you guys tell me if this looks like a well built truck?
https://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/437536
 

Toad

Well-Known Member
Location
Millville(logan)
Just missing the stacks:) I thought that was the law in Preston. I personally would not want a truck that modified. Plus it is missing some doors.
 

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Supporting Member
Location
Smithfield Utah
Ugh.... Preston. :p

98 12 valves are really cool I can understand the want there. That said I have zero faith in buying a high mileage--highly modified diesel with a high price tag. There's just too much on the line for me personally. Also this: "Tires are federal MT 33 12.50 on the fuel octane 20 inch rim with a knarly-44 offset" Is another way of saying it "needs new ball joints, wheel bearings, trace-bar and tie rod ends".
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
you won't get full 4 door in the Dodge years you mentioned.

Always hear good things about the Ford 7.3.

Gas v diesel no clear winner.

I love my diesel for heavy towing (10k with fully loaded horse trailer.) Business partner hauls same load plus camper on his truck with Chevy 3500 gasser and is happy.

With 11k budget may have more luck with gas.

I get about 15 mpg with my 04 Chevy diesel on routine driving. Have not had it long enough to get feel for towing.
 

sixb

Will work for beer!
Location
West Jordan, UT
Ugh.... Preston. :p
Also this: "Tires are federal MT 33 12.50 on the fuel octane 20 inch rim with a knarly-44 offset" Is another way of saying it "needs new ball joints, wheel bearings, trace-bar and tie rod ends".

Funny.


I daily drove my 90 Dodge ctd auto and got 18/19 with short in town trips. I now daily drive my 91 jetta idi 5spd and get 36/38 in town. My 88 F350 4x4 5spd crew idi gets 12 in town and 15 hwy.
 

Moabxjeeper

Active Member
Location
SLC, UT
Just 'cuz I needed a truck, I went out and bought a 92 F250 last October. I only paid $2300 for it and the guy I bought it from had just put about $2500 into it. Brand new clutch, heater core, gaskets replaced, new fuel pumps, Warn hubs, and a few other things. Whole engine was rebuilt about 80k ago.

I was a little skeptical at first since I had just barely bought it, but about two weeks later we took it on its maiden voyage; 600 miles round trip to go elk hunting. It ran like a champ, about 11-12mpg (can't expect much more from a 460). Only had to give her about 1/4 quart of oil and we were good to go!

I bought a trailer and towed the Jeep down to Five Mile a couple weeks ago. It towed great, and surprisingly enough got around the same 11mpg. It's a cheap truck and though it's not great on mileage, I figured I could buy a lot of gas for what the price of a newer diesel would be.

417506_434403589975751_1555892753_n_zps5cda4bd9.jpg
 

blznnp

Well-Known Member
Location
Herriman
That Ford 460 is an awesome motor to be sure.
My dad had a 460 for a long time, good motor. Would still have that truck if it didn't get totaled.

I have a 08 f350 6.4, love the truck and the power, but the mpg isn't the greatest. Main reason I got it was due to the fact that I planned on towing my blazer more (which means I thought it would be done by now) and also plan on getting a travel trailer sometime. Main reason I got it was for towing, so now I just have to find a daily beater.
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
Towing report with my Suburban

Since this thread is comparing gas verses diesel tow rigs, it seems a natural place to report my findings. As a reminder, my 4WD Suburban has the Vortec 8100 (496 cubic inches, baby) and 4.10 gears... and 220,000 miles. I just bought a new PJ 16' car hauler, which means my total gross trailer weight is 5500+ pounds.

When I bought the 'Burb, it was completely stock. I established base-line fuel economy by driving it very conservatively for a couple weeks--cruise set at 65 whenever I was on I-15, gently accelerating everywhere, and so on. I observed 11.3 mpg during this process.

A co-worker told me an exhaust and intake package increased his fuel economy on his former 8100 Suburban, so I then installed a Flowmaster 70-series muffler and tail pipe. I drove a bit more aggressively that tank, but still observed the same 11.3 mpg.

Now it was time to head to Moab. I loaded up the trailer and hit the road. I kept to the speed limit everywhere but I-15, where I generally ran 65-68 mph rather than the posted 75 (I'm a bit conservative when I tow). I made the trip down there, did a little in-town driving without the trailer (long story), then towed back to Wellington before refueling. Over those 349.9 miles, I observed 10.3 mpg. :) I can deal with that.
 

blznnp

Well-Known Member
Location
Herriman
Towing report with my Suburban

Since this thread is comparing gas verses diesel tow rigs, it seems a natural place to report my findings. As a reminder, my 4WD Suburban has the Vortec 8100 (496 cubic inches, baby) and 4.10 gears... and 220,000 miles. I just bought a new PJ 16' car hauler, which means my total gross trailer weight is 5500+ pounds.

When I bought the 'Burb, it was completely stock. I established base-line fuel economy by driving it very conservatively for a couple weeks--cruise set at 65 whenever I was on I-15, gently accelerating everywhere, and so on. I observed 11.3 mpg during this process.

A co-worker told me an exhaust and intake package increased his fuel economy on his former 8100 Suburban, so I then installed a Flowmaster 70-series muffler and tail pipe. I drove a bit more aggressively that tank, but still observed the same 11.3 mpg.

Now it was time to head to Moab. I loaded up the trailer and hit the road. I kept to the speed limit everywhere but I-15, where I generally ran 65-68 mph rather than the posted 75 (I'm a bit conservative when I tow). I made the trip down there, did a little in-town driving without the trailer (long story), then towed back to Wellington before refueling. Over those 349.9 miles, I observed 10.3 mpg. :) I can deal with that.
thats nice that you didn't see that much loss in mpg while towing. I have only towed a long distance one time with my truck and I completely forgot to track my mpg.
 

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
thats nice that you didn't see that much loss in mpg while towing.

I thought it was fantastic.

My gearing produced about 2300 rpm at 65 MPH, and it would hold that (and stay in OD) on most small-to-moderate grades. On the few really steep spots, it would unlock the converter and drop to third, then re-lock and settle in around 3000 rpm until I'd crest the hill and it would upshift back to fourth. All the while, the trans temp was at 165^ and the coolant temp was at 200^.

To say I am pleased with its performance is an understatement.
 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
Towing report with my Suburban

Since this thread is comparing gas verses diesel tow rigs, it seems a natural place to report my findings. As a reminder, my 4WD Suburban has the Vortec 8100 (496 cubic inches, baby) and 4.10 gears... and 220,000 miles. I just bought a new PJ 16' car hauler, which means my total gross trailer weight is 5500+ pounds.

When I bought the 'Burb, it was completely stock. I established base-line fuel economy by driving it very conservatively for a couple weeks--cruise set at 65 whenever I was on I-15, gently accelerating everywhere, and so on. I observed 11.3 mpg during this process.

A co-worker told me an exhaust and intake package increased his fuel economy on his former 8100 Suburban, so I then installed a Flowmaster 70-series muffler and tail pipe. I drove a bit more aggressively that tank, but still observed the same 11.3 mpg.

Now it was time to head to Moab. I loaded up the trailer and hit the road. I kept to the speed limit everywhere but I-15, where I generally ran 65-68 mph rather than the posted 75 (I'm a bit conservative when I tow). I made the trip down there, did a little in-town driving without the trailer (long story), then towed back to Wellington before refueling. Over those 349.9 miles, I observed 10.3 mpg. :) I can deal with that.

That is excellent to hear, I've been wondering how that 8.1L would treat you!
 
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