Gawynz Manche Thread

[Hickey]

And there it is, thank you! I was making the wrong assumption that the weak link was the center of the long tube, but what you're saying makes sense that it's actually at the tube/diff interface.



I think @Hickey was telling me the same thing earlier but I was misreading it, my bad.

No sleeves it is. For now I'm going to pass on a truss and get it under the jeep where I can understand what type of clearance I have. Thanks guys.

All of the Jeep front axles since the XJ was introduced up until the JL have the same tube dimensions other than length. Dana 30's and Dana 44's = same. The JK axles are 5" wider, which puts even more leverage on the weak center sections.

Anthony bought a busted JK Dana 30 for the steering and brake parts for his axle build. That axle was in some kind of collision and the tubes were pretty straight. The pig had stretched/broken where the tube presses in.

One area where the tube fails on these JK axles is near the passenger side upper CA mount. The tube will split near the welds. I think that the undercut at the factory welds are largely responsible for that. The inner tubes can help with that, but only if you're drilling and plug welding those tubes in.

 

[Gravy]

I stole the proportioning valve spring from a ZJ to get my rear discs functioning correctly on my 8.8 rear. I think I saw it on BleepinJeep YouTube. Cost my .30¢ for the spring at pick-n-pull and about 2 minutes to install it.

The ZJ spring is about 3/8” (guessing, I didn’t measure exact dimension) shorter than the XJ/MJ spring. I’m super happy with my braking setup. (WJ front knuckles/brakes, 8.8 rear discs)

I think the benefit of going WJ Master instead of ZJ is the WJ twin piston Akebono front brake calipers require more volume than the single piston ZJ front brakes.

At one point I had an Excel chart that somebody had done the math to figure out the displacement of each of the common calipers out there but if you just do stroke x bore you get the volume.

That's why I ended up with a Dodge ram master on my TJ with Ford 60s (stock twin piston front and Chev K10 fronts in the rear). I did have to shorten the pushrod I think.

 

[I Lean]

I think the benefit of going WJ Master instead of ZJ is the WJ twin piston Akebono front brake calipers require more volume than the single piston ZJ front brakes.

At one point I had an Excel chart that somebody had done the math to figure out the displacement of each of the common calipers out there but if you just do area x bore you get the volume.

That's why I ended up with a Dodge ram master on my TJ with Ford 60s (stock twin piston front and Chev K10 fronts in the rear). I did have to shorten the pushrod I think.

Not at all arguing with that, since it's 100% accurate--but when I did the WJ front brakes on my TJ, I kept the stock master and it worked great. I attributed it to not needing as much pedal throw because of the larger rotor giving more braking power, despite the larger caliper volume. The increase was balanced out by the decreased need. Or something.

 

[DAA]

^^^^ same with the WK2 calipers on my LJ.

- DAA

 

[Gravy]

I think it's definitely doable.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you still had drum rear on the green TJ? Likely the increased volume needed for the larger fronts was not so much that the either end locked dramatically first.
I most certainly would look at an adjustable proportioning valve in those situations. Before I swapped master cylinders my rears would lock a decade before the fronts.
Going from small disc front/ drum rear to big(ger) disc front to disc rear has a different volume requirement and one that doesn't have residual valve for the rear drums is more betterererer too.

 

[DAA]

And just to add to the possibilities my LJ has factory rear discs. Little tiny ones.

- DAA

 

[Hickey]

Hmm, maybe I can cut the spring down.

 

[Gawynz]

I got the d30 completely torn down, I started cleaning up the outside with a wire wheel and brush but it was miserable and with all the nooks and crannies there was no way I was going to reach everything I wanted to. Started calling around locally and found a shop that would steel bead blast in for $30-$50 (one shop wanted $250+! ha) so I dropped it off there (Tefco of Utah) yesterday.

I'm ordering all the parts to put it back together and I need a new carrier for the 4.56 gears, I've all but clicked "order" on a Trutrac; figured I put the carrier $ towards this instead. Also, given that this is to be a mild wheeling rig/dd and the fact that I don't intend to beef the axle up much the justification of a selectable locker isn't their and I really don't like the clicking sound/feel of a lunchbox locker in a daily driver. I think that the factory LSD rear and the Trutrac LSD front will suit just fine near term as I just want to get it out and enjoy it. In the future I may consider a selectable locker for the rear and I think that package would be great for anything I plan to do with this jeep.

So if anyone has a better idea, speak now or forever hold your peace ha.

 

[Gawynz]

A couple weeks ago and did a quick run through the junkyard, grabbed a booster/master cylinder out of a 2000 WJ. As well as a proportioning valve spring out of a 97 ZJ.



Snagged some knuckles off of a 2002 WJ, the calipers/rotors were shot so I'll be getting new.



Got my axle back from bead blast and it looks great.



I've gone back and forth on trussing this thing, it just seems like a shame to be this far stripped down and not do it. That said, I really don't think this vehicle will need it, I don't like the look of most of the trusses out there, and I'd rather not pay for one. So yesterday afternoon I decided to do my own simple, hopefully clean, truss/bracing that should be more than enough for this vehicles use.

Started with the old leading arms I had lying around from when I redid the suspension on my buggy; the square is 2"x2"x1/4".



This saw is awesome...



Got some torch practice, and consequently grinding practice ha.



Then massaged it into shape, there are a few odd angles so it was a lot of off and on.



Where I left it yesterday. The tube took a while, but it fit up very well. You can see some rough templates for control arm bracing, I also intend to do some simple C gussets and box in the lower control arm mounts. I'm not sure how effective my little truss will be... I think it'll do great for keeping the long tube straight, to help keep the tube from bending at the housing I tried to get the truss up on the housing as much as I could without interfering w/ the vent tube. Obviously this isn't as good as a tube to tube truss, but I'm happy w/ the simple low profile fit of it.

 

[xjtony]

Nice and clean. Looks good

 

[Gawynz]

Not sure if you already have them or not but you’ll need .25” spacers for the WJ knuckles to space out the unit bearings. JKS sells a set on Amazon but they come powdercoated, so you gotta remove the powdercoat before you can weld them to the knuckle. I got mine from IronmanFab4x4 and they worked great.

Thanks, I ordered the knuckle spacers and they should be showing up any day. I plan to just cut out the caliper spacers.

 

[Tebbsjeep]

Did you go to the ogden tear apart? Were there any other wj's with good knuckles? I need to get some for my Jeep.

 

[mbryson]

@ebryson is looking for a WJ axle as.well

 

[Gawynz]

Did you go to the ogden tear apart? Were there any other wj's with good knuckles? I need to get some for my Jeep.

@ebryson is looking for a WJ axle as.well

I went to Ogden Pic-a-part on 17th. There were quite a few WJs there, but I narrowed my search to '02-'04 as I was hoping to find the Akebono calipers (I did but they were shot). I think the '99-'04 knuckles are all the same though, if that's true I'm sure you could find a set there. I just pulled up there inventory and it shows they have 15 WJs.

 

[Gawynz]

I've finished my bracing (other than boxing in control arm mounts). Lots of grinding/massaging to get a good fit, made a wreck of the shop. Anytime I welded to cast I used the preheat-weld-postheat-wrap w/ blankets and let cool slowly approach w/ standard mig wire, seems to have worked out well. Welded in sections to try to prevent any warping of the axle. I was going to brace the upper part of the C similar to how I did the lower but there really isn't much room for it due to the spring. I think the lower C bracing will stiffen it up a lot and at this point I don't plan to do anything on the upper part of the C (bad idea?). Square tubing is 1/4" wall, triangles are 1/4", UCA box plate is 1/8", C-gussets are 3/8".

 

[Hickey]

Don't forget to plate/box those lower control arm mounts. They fold sideways pretty easy.

 

[Gravy]

I did triangle gussets on an outside edge of the inner corner on the upper "C"s

 

[Gawynz]

I did triangle gussets on an outside edge of the inner corner on the upper "C"s

I had a similar yet simpler and not as strong of an idea as you described and decided not to do it, then you posted this and I changed my mind. Maybe a waste of time compared to what you described... but I do think it'll add simple structure to keep the upper part of the C from becoming more obtuse (3/8" plate, same as the lower part of the C). Might have accidentally gotten a little excited heating this section...



Out with the old

 

[Gawynz]

Gears/truetrac engaged.


My take at a build appropriate HP D30 and starting reassembly. Waiting to finish panhard mount thoughts until I paint it all.



WJ knuckles about ready for paint (cleaning junkyard parts is obnoxious).

 

[Gawynz]

The stock stabilizer and swaybar mounts are very much in the way of the WJ knuckles; I figured I'd end up cutting them off anyway because I didn't expect drank link angles would be acceptable so I cut it all off and boxed in the passer side which has less meat than the driver without the brackets.




Factory MJ brakes vs '02 WJ


Drilled to 5x4.5