Gun related topic to discuss - Homeowner/suspect = suspect dead in the street

[TRNDRVR]

*link*

KEARNS -- A 19-year-old man died trying to break into a home in Kearns. He was shot by the homeowner.

Police say Kyle Poulton was clearly trying to break into the home near 5600 South and 5100 West Monday morning when he was shot in the chest. Now the investigation is underway into whether the homeowner was justified in his actions.

As investigators map the scene where Poulton died, neighbors seemed to agree that the homeowner was justified in his actions.

"I probably might have done the same thing. I don't know, being in that situation of someone trying to come into your house when you have two small children in your house, your first reaction is to protect your family," said neighbor Jason Dickinson.

"I think he do [did] what he needed to do," said Beatrice Hernandez who also lives in the neighborhood.

Lt. Don Hutson with the Unified Police Department said the homeowner reported someone rang the doorbell of his home around 1:30 Monday morning. He investigated, didn't see anybody and went back to bed.

Then around 3 a.m., he and his wife began hearing noises near the family room downstairs, so armed with a handgun he went to check it out.

Lt. Don Hutson with the Unified Police Department said, "As he was looking outside his sliding glass door, there was a person there trying to make their way in the sliding glass door with some sort of a tool."

Startled, police say the father of two young girls fired one shot at the glass door. When Poulton ran away, the homeowner called 911 to report the attempted break-in.

When police arrived, they found Poulton about 50 feet from the home, dead in the street.

Hutson said the district attorney's office will review the case.

"Obviously this is something the district attorney's office will have to look at and something we talk about frequently, about defense of habitation and what rights do we have to protect ourselves and our home. This homeowner had two small children in the home. Clearly somebody was attempting to break into his home and that's something that's going to have to be looked at by the district attorney's office," he said.

Police say Poulton lives less than two miles from the house. They say they're now looking into whether he has any acquaintances in this neighborhood. As for a criminal history, police say there is nothing significant in his past.

Personally, I'm thinking this won't turn out well for the homeowner.

 

[I Lean]

I would not hesitate to shoot someone in my house in the middle of the night. I'm not going to wait around to ask if he's intending on killing me, or just stealing my TV....

I don't know that I would have shot him BEFORE he was inside though--seems like a shouted warning would have scared him off?

 

[Stephen]

I don't know that I would have shot him BEFORE he was inside though--seems like a shouted warning would have scared him off?

This is going to be the crux that will land the homeowner in jail. Had the guy been inside, you've got him. Him just jimmying the lock, defense will argue that the guy probably just thought he was having a hard time getting into his own house. Disgusting, but I can see the defense doing that. So the homeowner will probably get 5-15 for manslaughter, though the "victims" family will probably try to push for homicide.

All told though, one more oxygen thief gone.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

The story is lacking in detail at best... was the homeowner screaming at him to leave, warning him to back off. That would be my story

Just because he hasn't quite pryed open the door doesn't mean he is a threat, for all we know the two exchanged words and knowing he had been identified the suspect was even more ambitious to enter the house and eliminate victims.

Its easy, don't break into homes and your far less likely to get shot. I can live with those odds around me.

 

[Herzog]

If the story is accurate the homeowner shouldn't be in any kind of trouble.

Even attempted burglary is a felony. Force may be used to stop a felony in progress.

Castle Doctine

An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied home, business or car.
The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary

 

[Herzog]

Personally, I'm thinking this won't turn out well for the homeowner.

It had better... because if it doesn't the system has failed.

 

[Herzog]

More info about the Utah Code:
http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_02_040500.htm

he reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony in the habitation and that the force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.

edit: updated link.

 

[TRNDRVR]

I remember years ago 2 stories;

#1 Someone is ringing old man's front doorbell while somebody else is in his garage coming through the door into house. Old man shoots suspect in house and kills him. Suspect at front door runs never to be seen again. Old man is a hero!!

#2 Homeowner comes home in middle of the night to see suspect bailing out sliding patio window with a bunch oh his stuff in his arms. Homeowner shoots at suspect as he is jumping over fence which backs up to school yard. Homeowner looks over fence and sees nothing, figuring guy got away. Doesn't report it. Next day school kids find suspect laying at the foot of homeowners fence dead. Homeowner gets 25 to life!!!

Suspect in the house is okay. Suspect not in house is not okay.

Sucks, but.....:sick:

 

[Herzog]

I remember years ago 2 stories;

#1 Someone is ringing old man's front doorbell while somebody else is in his garage coming through the door into house. Old man shoots suspect in house and kills him. Suspect at front door runs never to be seen again. Old man is a hero!!

#2 Homeowner comes home in middle of the night to see suspect bailing out sliding patio window with a bunch oh his stuff in his arms. Homeowner shoots at suspect as he is jumping over fence which backs up to school yard. Homeowner looks over fence and sees nothing, figuring guy got away. Doesn't report it. Next day school kids find suspect laying at the foot of homeowners fence dead. Homeowner gets 25 to life!!!

Suspect in the house is okay. Suspect not in house is not okay.

Sucks, but.....:sick:

The difference is that one was fleeing or leaving the scene. In the process of entering is different scenario than fleeing. You can self defend against an attempted burglary in progress, especially if you feel that your safety (and/or your families safety) is at risk.

I think you are supposed to give a verbal warning BUT you risk giving notice to the criminal and allowing them to possibly pull a gun and return fire.

 

[TRNDRVR]

Don't get me wrong, because I'd like nothing more then to see this homeowners hand being shaken by the Chief of Police while being thanked for his service to his community but,

The difference is that one was fleeing or leaving the scene.

did the homeowner give the suspect a fighting chance to flee? (suspect being on the outside/homeowner being on the inside)

I bet it's going to come right down to this one pivotal point. As much we'll hate to see it happen, I'm thinking they'll charge the homeowner.

 

[Kiel]

I just would have opened the door, problem solved, suspect was inside

 

[Hickey]

It's all about "threat". If the threat is removed, so is your right to defend with deadly force. Suspect is fleeing=threat removed.

I think today's homeowner will be fine, unless we find out he chased the perp after he fled.

 

[Herzog]

Don't get me wrong, because I'd like nothing more then to see this homeowners hand being shaken by the Chief of Police while being thanked for his service to his community but,did the homeowner give the suspect a fighting chance to flee? (suspect being on the outside/homeowner being on the inside)

I bet it's going to come right down to this one pivotal point. As much we'll hate to see it happen, I'm thinking they'll charge the homeowner.

I hear ya, I just think that as long as the story is accurate he was completely within his right.

 

[cowmilker]

defense will argue that the guy probably just thought he was having a hard time getting into his

PROCECUTION (after being urged by the parents of this "good Cristian boy") will argue that the guy probably just thought he was having a hard time getting into his house.

This does not look good for the homeowner.

 

[SAMI]

Let's all get onto the same page here:

76-2-405. Force in defense of habitation. wrote:
(1) A person is justified in using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's unlawful entry into or attack upon his habitation; however, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if:
(a) the entry is made or attempted in a violent and tumultuous manner, surreptitiously, or by stealth, and he reasonably believes that the entry is attempted or made for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person, dwelling, or being in the habitation and he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent the assault or offer of personal violence; or
(b) he reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony in the habitation and that the force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.
(2) The person using force or deadly force in defense of habitation is presumed for the purpose of both civil and criminal cases to have acted reasonably and had a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury if the entry or attempted entry is unlawful and is made or attempted by use of force, or in a violent and tumultuous manner, or surreptitiously or by stealth, or for the purpose of committing a felony.

Kurt hit the nail on the head about there being A LOT of details missing in the KSL report to start arm chair quarter backing.. The Fox article has a few additional details that KSL didn't (seems that KSL was the first to put out a story, but there's a bit more info now).

http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/kstu-man-killed-break-into-home-kearns,0,2439072.story wrote:

"I find it hard to believe that the person didn't know somebody was home," said Unified Police Lt. Don Hutson. "There had been some lights that were turned on and those types of things to indicate somebody was home, and yet he still tried to make entry."

Police say when they found the body, the man had burglary tools on him.

Also note that the KSL article has been updated to include:

Police believe the suspected burglar lives less than two miles from the scene of the shooting. His name has not been released.

Police also say a screen had been removed from a window of the home, possibly as part of an intended break-in.

The homeowner and his family were being questioned by police.

^Speculation at this point perhaps, but if the homeowner had noticed this after the first attempt before the second attempt you better believe he was at a heightened awareness to keep his family safe.

The homeowner was WELL within his rights to use deadly force in this scenario. It's irritating to me when someone uses two completely different scenarios to compare and forecast what may happen.. TRNDRVR, I'm looking at you on that. Your scenario of the guy fleeing over the fence, in no way would that ever fall under the protection of Castle Doctrine. Any moron who takes that shot, IMO, should be locked up for 25.

The DA will be on the fury end of a local shitstorm if the homeowner doesn't receive a handshake and a 'well done'.

 

[SAMI]

A few more points I'd like to make..

1) Have a plan for this type of event. A wise tool is your cell phone. Have 911 on the phone as you are yelling commands at the person attempting to enter your home. Call out what they are doing and what you are doing. Have your wife on the phone with a 911 operator locked in a closet. Do you have dogs? Are the dogs barking at the guy from the inside of the house, or they in with your wife/kids?

2) Double tap..

 

[kmboren]

More good new for the Home owner is there is a single gun shot wound to the Chest. It would be a completely different story if it was in the Back. Hopefully he is not charged but I agree if he is this system has FAILED.

More details would be nice.

 

[TRNDRVR]

Hopefully he is not charged but I agree if he is this system has FAILED.

He may be charged, but will he be found guilty? :-\

 

[SAMI]

According to what has been reported about this event thus far, I'm predicting that there are no charges to the homeowner. The law is well on the homeowner's side.

 

[cowmilker]

He may be charged, but will he be found guilty? :-\

That is one good thing about the system. You must be found guilty by "a jury of your peers". I would hope (is the any hope?) that he would not be charged.