ho-lee jesus 18 kids murdered in elementary school massacre

[Unimog]

This kind of statement is as irresponsible as something like what Huckabee is saying. Regardless of what your beliefs are, it is pretty offensive and not reasonable to paint everyone "of faith" or "atheists", for that matter, with such a broad brush. I happen to agree with you that unchecked mental illness was the root cause of this crime. It is only through civil, thoughtful discourse that we can come together.

 

[Kevin B.]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23430406&ni...ringing-gun-to-kearns-school&s_cid=featured-1

I'm taking my kids out of school. They ain't coming back here," said Mandee Doyle, whose children attend the school.

"Now that I'm thinking about it, it's kind of sad how easy it is to get in and out of school, and something needs to be done," said John Klaus, whose nieces and nephews attend the school.

Speaking of media-assisted hysteria... nice job, KSL.

 

[Jeepj667]

They should make more effort to secure our schools. I've been in every school in West Valley (84120/28) and the only ones that you need to be buzzed into are a couple of the daycare's, Monticello Academy, and the teen mother school. All the others generally only have one door open near the office but are never watched.

 

[mesha]

Obtaining a Utah CFP exempts you from the Gun Free School Zone... Are my posts invisible; wtf? Without the CFP, you are not allowed to have a firearm within 1,'000ft of a school. It is a ridiculous law, as I used to break the law by carrying my firearm from car to my home when I didn't have a CFP. You can carry in your car without need of a CFP, but once inside that 1,000ft radius you're now breaking the law even if you live inside that radius. It is a stupid law if you ask me, because it cannot be enforced. Someone looking to cause mayhem does not give two suits about the GFSZ laws.

I read you post but missed the gun free zone. I didn't realize the 1000ft radius law was the same thing thing as the gun free zone. Sorry.

That information is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[B2-Bomber]

A kid brought a gun to school, at my son's school yesterday

 

[Bart]

Saw that and had to wonder how the he!! that kid got access to a gun? I had guns in the house the entire time my kids were growing up and they couldn't have accessed them.

 

[B2-Bomber]

he was a 6th grader, a kid that age can be pretty crafty. you may think he doesn't know the combination to the gun safe, or where you hide the key (if it has a key). but he does. or maybe you may think he may not know that you even keep a gun between your matress and box springs.....they do.
hell, when i was that age i knew how to use my dad's power tools (grinders etc). if you had half an hour (or less) to yourself you could make short work of a cable chamber-lock on a pistol with power tools


biometric locks are really the only fail safe

 

[mbryson]

....biometric locks are really the only fail safe

...and just as vulnerable to powertools and whatnot. We talk about guns in our house. How to handle, when to handle, what to do if someone is handling irresponsibly, etc. That's not a foolproof method either, but I feel better than being gunphobic.

 

[Kevin B.]

Agree 100%. Without knowing that kid or his parents, I bet that gun was "hidden" somewhere and not talked about, not fired at the range, not part of a safety education program, etc.

 

[B2-Bomber]

i was actually referring to biometrically locked firearms, not safes, and chamber locks. at least in that way an 11 year old would need to utilize some gunsmithing to bypass it. and therefore knowing that he couldn't fire it, he would likely:
A) not even bring it to school in the first place because he couldn't even fire it.
or
B) if he did still bring it for brandishing/ intimidation purposes, at lease he couldn't do near as much damage (deliberate or accidental) as he could with a firearm he could fire

the technology exists, but it hasn't trickled down into the hands of the consumers yet

 

[B2-Bomber]

i agree kevin, parents treat guns just like they treat sex "i told them not to do it, i don't talk about it, and my kids won't even know it exists, and therefore can't get in trouble with it....."
they probably thought that a gun in a gun safe would call too much attention to a gun in the house. and they would have to talk about it

as far as both sex, and firearms go: education goes further than ignorance in preventing life changing side effects (death, pregnancy, STDs etc.)

educate everyone!
a person without a gun, but with a solid gun education, and respect is harmless, but the opposite: a person with a gun, without a solid gun education/respect is very dangerous indeed

 

[mbryson]

i was actually referring to biometrically locked firearms....

I'm 100% not interested in one of those.

 

[mbryson]

*sigh....
3) gun control (on any level)
....there is not one of those subjects that i (or anyone) could talk you out of your current belief on.

i believe that people have lost the ability to remain objective on these subjects, and subjects like them.

I do have a fairly open, but opinionated mind on firearms. While elements of "gun control" may prevent some of the scope of this particular tragedy, the real issue is not a gun. In my mind there's a mental issue with the perpetrator that needs to be addressed. Strangely, all similar events had someone with a mental issue and a suicide wish/blaze of glory idea. To me, the root issue of this act, the Oregon mall thing, the CO movie theater and other similar events is someone with some kind of "video game" type of idea that they'd go out in a way to inflict as much pain as possible on society while they entertained their suicide wish. I have no idea of the mindset of such a person and why that makes sense to them. (why you're taking out your anger on kindergarten kids is unfathomable) It seems that each of these shootings have a common thread that the shooter attacked defenseless people in public areas.



Sell me on biometrics or whatever (maybe we should take it out of this thread?) for firearms.

 

[B2-Bomber]

i deleted that last post realizing i was opening up a big debate that i didn't want o get into.

i think that the only person who is not for biometrics is more worried about their prideful belief in the saying "someone might kill me with my own gun, but they will have to beat me to death with it because its empty" ir usually seems machismo based "i'm so good i'd shoot them before they could get it" or "i lock mine up good enough that a kid could never get it"

it all smells like arrogance (sp?) to me

 

[mbryson]

i deleted that last post realizing i was opening up a big debate that i didn't want o get into.

i think that the only person who is not for biometrics is more worried about their prideful belief in the saying "someone might kill me with my own gun, but they will have to beat me to death with it because its empty" ir usually seems machismo based "i'm so good i'd shoot them before they could get it" or "i lock mine up good enough that a kid could never get it"

it all smells like arrogance (sp?) to me

Uh, well, I do have a different opinion on what I perceive to be your belief about biometric firearms. It sounds like you are promoting a "trigger mechanism" based on some type of recognition of ownership (fingerprint, retina scan, or ????). Simple answer, my kids and my wife operate the same weapons I do. As part of my shooting, I do like to operate other types/models/etc. of firearms that other people have. Biometric would appear to be an obstacle there?

 

[Unimog]

...and just as vulnerable to powertools and whatnot. We talk about guns in our house. How to handle, when to handle, what to do if someone is handling irresponsibly, etc. That's not a foolproof method either, but I feel better than being gunphobic.

^^ This. My boys (and my little girl when the time comes) know how to handle every kind of gun. They decide under appropriate supervision when to move to the next level. We talk about what we see at the range and on TV/movies, how most movies do not portray guns being used in a safe way. I doubt if they could get into my safe, but even if they could, they know it isn't something you would carry around flippantly, like a toy. I'm hoping that they are learning from example that carrying a gun, even when legal, is not a smart thing to do in every situation.

 

[B2-Bomber]

Uh, well, I do have a different opinion on what I perceive to be your belief about biometric firearms. It sounds like you are promoting a "trigger mechanism" based on some type of recognition of ownership (fingerprint, retina scan, or ????). Simple answer, my kids and my wife operate the same weapons I do. As part of my shooting, I do like to operate other types/models/etc. of firearms that other people have. Biometric would appear to be an obstacle there?

yes i am referring to biometric trigger operation. (i site paul giamatti's gun in "Shoot 'Em Up" as an exapmle)

i figure it could be like tge biometric door locks they sell at home depot. you can program temperary users that expire at a date/time you set (like if a friend were staying with you for a week) i used to live in a house that had one of those, it was pretty painless to add them/ take them out

 

[mbryson]

yes i am referring to biometric trigger operation. (i site paul giamatti's gun in "Shoot 'Em Up" as an exapmle)

i figure it could be like tge biometric door locks they sell at home depot. you can program temperary users that expire at a date/time you set (like if a friend were staying with you for a week) i used to live in a house that had one of those, it was pretty painless to add them/ take them out

Well, like my trucks, I tend to like my weapons (esp. something I might use to defend myself/family/coworkers etc.) to subscribe to the KISS method. This "solution" does not subscribe to that, thus my objection. I'm not familiar with Paul Giamatti or "Shoot 'Em Up" but I'll google that. (edit: not a show I'd normally watch at all....)

I can't begin to express my frustration when some "nanny" type device malfunctions in my automobile, the frustration level wouldn't be better on something I buy with intended use of ultimate reliability in an extremely complex, pressure packed situation.

 

[skiboarder]

The problem is not education, respect, or ignorance. The sixth grader was looking for attention. The shooter in conneticut was educated in the use of fire arms. The biggest issue is an epidemic that no one wants to admit exists. It is mental health. We all know first hand somebody that needs help. Wether it is depression, bipolar, or etc. Mental health issues are more common then we realize. We, as a public, are think nothing about antibiotics, cholesterol,and other meds that fix body chemistry imbalances. mental health is an chemical imbalance as well. We are aal affraid to say I have mental issues and am on medication or counciling. 80% of what a doctor sees in their office are related to mental health issues. it is an epidemicand must be addressed.


I hate typing on a laptop.