Hypothetical: 5mp OHV Park

EZRhino

KalishnaKitty
Location
Sandy, UT
OK Guys, time to get creative.

Let's say hypothetically the BLM wants to create a better 5 mile pass area. What kind of things would you want to see? Let's list some reasonable, practical solutions; in other words, no one suggest moving Little Sahara to 5mp or creating a 5 acre mud bog. :)

First of all, a complete inventory of the area. The direct area around 5mp (the off-rodeo grounds) is actually (yes, it really is) open to cross country travel. It would be important to know exactly what roads are open, closed, limited, etc.

Second: map and sign all roads/trails. Give trails official names.

Third: create some new trails. I'd love to see about 60-80 miles of single track for mt. bikes and motorcycles. Create some new ATV trails (narrow trails), maybe 20 miles. And of course, create 50 miles of new (or rip up some existing roads to increase difficulty) 4x4 trails. Stuff like RS, but more of it, and stuff like Constrictor.

Fourth: Environmental issues. Possibly fence off or otherwise control areas around tailings. Close duplicate paths and re-seed. Close unnecessary trail braiding and spur routes. *Caution* this suggestion is dangerous. It needs to be used prudently. Organize work parties, have annual trash pick ups, etc. (Like the earth day deal.)

Fifth: Local clubs adopt trails. They do their own trash clean up, and they also patrol trails, ward off illegal switchback cutting, prevent/control new routes, rehabilitate damaged areas, etc. I would suggest quarterly trash cleanups/work days where clubs would do these kind of projects.

Sixth: Infastructure. Kiosks built at trail heads. Signs put up with a trail rating system. Parking lot/unloading points designed and built. Lmited fencing put up where needed.

Seventh: Public shooting range erected on the south side of 5mp. A firing line built, earth burms put up. Make it large enough that people can go there and have a safe place to go shooting, and try to get everyone shooting in a safe direction rather than in every direction like it is today. It would be an un-manned range, and it would be free/minimal, like put your $2 in the can when you enter, on the honor system. I think this is much needed. Plus it would raise enough revenue to pay for its upkeep and maintainance.

Eighth: How is all of this going to be paid for? Remember the *&^%$ booth at the entrance to AF Canyon.......what if the main 5mp parking area became a huge pay lot? But make it reasonable....$1 or $2 to park there, otherwide you gotta park 10 miles down the road in order to use that area. Such a little amount from each person that uses the area could do wonders for all of us.

You ideas?

EZ
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
NICE!!!!!!



Let's see if we can come up with some ideas. There are some smart people around here and we should be able to get a cool usage 'solution' and see where it will go.




I'll even volunteer to submit the 'solution' to the U4WDA and have them contact BLM (involving Greg as a rep of RME) so the board can take credit for it's solution.
 

BlackSheep

baaaaaaaaaad to the bone
Supporting Member
EZ,
I'm with you 100% on points 1, 5

Comments on:

2: The signs have to be clearly marked and there should be maps at the trailheads that show the different trails with color coding or whatever to help folks identify the trails.

3: provided 2 is implemented. If it is a single track, keep the jeeps and the ATVs off of it (anything wider than the single track). Leave it to the bicycles, hikers, horses and 2 wheel motorcycles. Same for the ATV routes, although they would be open to anything with less width than the ATV track.

4: you're right, tall order

6: If we can come up with approved sineage (sp?), the clubs could use their land budget to help with the costs of this

7: I like the idea, but concerns of liability here. I'm no lawyer, but as soon as you make an area specific for some activity, some knucklehead is gonna shoot himself or his buddy (or me!!) and the lawsuits will fly. Especially if you have to pay for it.

8: Think about Mirror lake highway, AF Canyon, etc. It is a small fee, but people really get up in arms about this type of stuff. I personally don't mind buying an annual pass or pay by the day as long as the funds are used in the upkeep of that area. Right now, with AF and Mirror lake, I don't know the status of the funds.
 

EZRhino

KalishnaKitty
Location
Sandy, UT
Oh!

Ninth: Take all the VW sized rocks and create a 50 by 100 foot rock garden right at 5mp.

Tenth: Create a motocross track at 5mp too.

The idea is to make it a destination riding/wheeling area. When you've got xxxx acres of area and xxx miles of designated trails, people are a little overwhelmed at first.....when you have an organized trail system people are more interested in following the trails and exploring the area rather than creating their own paths.

EZ
 

spencurai

Purple Burglar Alarm
Location
WVC,UT
sound great but it also sounds like a 5 million dollar plan....how would an organization come up with money for heavy equipment and money for signs and money for fencing to close off the area from bypassers.....

It is a tall order.
 

EZRhino

KalishnaKitty
Location
Sandy, UT
Black Sheep.....

Yup yup and yup on every point you made. I threw the shooting range in because it is a legitimate use of the area and I believe it would make the area safer than it is now. It isn't four wheeling related of course and a little out of the scope of this forum.

You're right........give bikers and mo-mo's a place all to their own. Horses can pretty much go anywhere, and give us some of our own. Even though we are creating new trails, an overall plan such as this can dramatically improve the area.

Spence.........

Get outta my way, there's no room for pessimists on this train! :) Just kidding Bro. Actually yes you are kind of correct, but on the other hand, no. It's been done elsewhere. Much of the labor can be volunteered. Groups will volunteer their time and labor in order to get signage rights and name trails after themselves. Building fences doesn't require a union or a building inspector. A little at a time, a little at a time. Hence the idea for a pay lot.

EZ
 

bobdog

4x4 Addict!
Location
Sandy
Originally posted by spencurai
sound great but it also sounds like a 5 million dollar plan....how would an organization come up with money for heavy equipment and money for signs and money for fencing to close off the area from bypassers.....

It is a tall order.

Pork barrel politics is the answer. It is about time we got some of it.
We also pay taxes on the gas we burn off road but all the money gets used for highways.
 

BlackSheep

baaaaaaaaaad to the bone
Supporting Member
Originally posted by spencurai
sound great but it also sounds like a 5 million dollar plan....how would an organization come up with money for heavy equipment and money for signs and money for fencing to close off the area from bypassers.....

It is a tall order.

Local clubs and the land user's themselves. I can't speak for my club, but if the club asked for a donation, I would give it. Even if they required an amount as terms of membership, I would still throw down the cash.

Already I pay an annual fee, if they increased that by ....say $5 per year.... as a 'land use surcharge', I wouldn't complain. $5 is simply used as an example. As long as I knew the money was going to help our cause, I would pay it. Obviously my pocket has limits, so it would have to be affordable for me.


Having a pay station at the parking area would generate a bundle of cash as well.

Take EJS for example of how to generate money to pay fees. One of the reasons we as a user group can go to Moab year round and pay no land use fees is because the work of the RR4W and the money they poney up to help pay fees. EJS and the labor day campout generate a huge chunk of money for this cause.

That is the reason I'll always make my best effort to attend EJS as a registered guest of the RR4W.
 

spencurai

Purple Burglar Alarm
Location
WVC,UT
user fees are a definite money generator....but you have to have some "capital" to start off with....if you charge a use fee, you have to cordon of the area for those that would come in the "back way....that place is frickin huge!!

I know sand mountain is fenced off pretty much all the way around.

could clubs generate enough money to get that place up and professionalized because it has major potential for success if the entire area was utilized for offroading!!
 
P

pokeyYJ

Guest
I really like this idea, I think that we need to try and coordinate with other outdoor enthusiasts, like the horse back riders and ATV's and such. Maybe we need to get some national organizations in on this, like the Blue Ribbon Coalition.

One point that might need to be addressed is this,,,, What kind of resistance are we going to get from the enviromentalist's?

One more idea, it might be easier to do this a little at a time. You know like get Rattlesnake and Constrictor recognized as trails through the BLM.

That way we could show the BLM what we can do, by the way of trail matenance and clean up.

Finally a place where I can use this pic,,:D ,,,,,,
positive10.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Originally posted by spencurai
user fees are a definite money generator....but you have to have some "capital" to start off with....if you charge a use fee, you have to cordon of the area for those that would come in the "back way....that place is frickin huge!!

I know sand mountain is fenced off pretty much all the way around.

could clubs generate enough money to get that place up and professionalized because it has major potential for success if the entire area was utilized for offroading!!

Hey!!!! I think the light went on!!!! good to have you on board...........
 
P

pokeyYJ

Guest
Originally posted by spencurai
could clubs generate enough money to get that place up and professionalized because it has major potential for success if the entire area was utilized for offroading!!

I think that if we got enough clubs to each donate money to the cause, there would be enough.

There are a lot of 4x4 clubs that would be interested in helping, and then you got to add all the ATV organizations and other outdoor clubs.


BTW, what kind of acreage are we looking at for the whole 5mp area?
 

spencurai

Purple Burglar Alarm
Location
WVC,UT
Originally posted by mbryson


Hey!!!! I think the light went on!!!! good to have you on board...........

it is always nice to have kick ass moderators...including myself....to keep this place afloat...


this idea has my entry fees and even a yearly donation of a couple benjamins if need be....
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Originally posted by pokeyYJ


I think that if we got enough clubs to each donate money to the cause, there would be enough.

There are a lot of 4x4 clubs that would be interested in helping, and then you got to add all the ATV organizations and other outdoor clubs.


BTW, what kind of acreage are we looking at for the whole 5mp area?

38,000 acres according to the website Spence posted the other day......PLENTY of room for a lot of varied usage.....
 

EZRhino

KalishnaKitty
Location
Sandy, UT
BZZZZZZZZZZT! Not on my thread you don't! Cry about your alter-ego somewhere else. We're not starting this again.


On the money issue......one thing at a time, one thing at a time. First we need to convice them of the benefit of the plan. Signage, trail maps/ratings, cleanups, etc. can all be done starting now with little money. It will take years of close work with the BLM to get it even resembling what I posted originally. Think of what has happened in AF now compared to 5 years ago. Big difference.

EZ
 

EZRhino

KalishnaKitty
Location
Sandy, UT
Hmm......I have some 1/2" plate we could make em out of.........

OOOoooooh here's an idea. We get 20 RME'ers and go storm the BLM office all togather. Among us are some horsemen, some ATVers and some motorcyclers. Then we fillibuster and refuse to leave the office until they stamp "approved" on our plan! OK I was kidding about the last part.

EZ
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Originally posted by EZRhino
... Much of the labor can be volunteered. Groups will volunteer their time and labor in order to get signage rights and name trails after themselves. Building fences doesn't require a union or a building inspector. A little at a time, a little at a time. Hence the idea for a pay lot.

EZ

I don't think it would be that bad to accomplish. It could could be series of projects over a five-year period. As much work as possible could be completed by voluteer work and the rest could possibly be picked up by the governmet (wether it be federal, BLM, Parks and Rec, etc.)
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
I think this idea has alot of potential. but first alot of planning needs to take place and it will require the input from alot of different users. That being said, those other users feel the same frustrations that we do. I attended the planning meeting for the rally at the capitol a couple months ago. There were advocates for a few different assocations there (Utah Trail Machine Assoc., Dessertcross assoc, etc) They all had the same concerns that we feel.... we are losing ground fast. I think that with some intense planning and alot of involvment and input this thing could really fly.

I agree with a public shooting range...

Althought there are alot of rednecks just out there shooting TV's and such at night. There are more legitimate people that are out there to target shoot and providing a facility for them would not only be safer, but better for the image as well as the environment.

Did anyone mention restrooms and such facilities? With various restrooms as well as garbage cans... the place would stay alot cleaner as well as attract a more people = more $$$ for the projects.

Speaking of money for the projects... If we could get phase one to fly (establishing a fee area) then revenue would start generating immediatly. Like was said before, you can sneak around having to pay, but most people don't... look at most parks and such, you can get into alot of them illegally, but I think 90% of people pay.... Along with that revenue is the chance that a government grant could be established, possibly even vote on a bond to allocate money to the newly formed park? Even if money is lacking, there is alot of improvments that can be made that are low cost, restrooms and garbage facilites are cheap when you look at the benefits.

Keep the ideas coming... :D
 
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