I wonder where Bush's priorities lie?

Amy

Limited Supply Of Sanity
Location
!
On Tuesday night, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi confronted President George W. Bush about Michael Brown, the director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Pelosi called on Bush to dismiss Brown — the man appointed to take charge



of swift responses to natural and man-made disasters. When asked for the president's response, Pelosi told the The Associated Press that he had "thanked me for my suggestion."

Later that evening, internal FEMA documents, obtained by the AP, revealed that Brown waited nearly five hours after Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast before asking his boss, Homeland Security Secretary Mike Chertoff, for assistance — the nation's first attempt at a response to what is being called the worst natural disaster to strike the U.S..

According to the wire service, Katrina raged for five hours before Brown petitioned Chertoff with his first request for aid: 1,000 Homeland Security workers who'd be dispatched to the region two days later to lend their support to localized rescue efforts and "convey a positive image of disaster operations to government officials, community organizations and the general public." He also suggested that an additional 2,000 personnel be sent over the course of the following week.

Before Brown issued his request on August 29, FEMA had placed smaller rescue and communications teams across the area, the AP reports. In his memo to Chertoff, Brown characterized Katrina as a "near catastrophic event," though the correspondence failed to convey a more immediate or imperative need for government action. Many have said the federal response to the disaster was insufficient and far too late .

According to Homeland Security spokesperson Russ Knocke, Brown's intention was to offer support to potential victims in the aftermath, rather than assist in the rescuing of victims or the recovery of bodies. "There will be plenty of time to assess what worked and what didn't work," Knocke told the AP. "Clearly there will be time for blame to be assigned and to learn from some of the successful efforts."




Before his request to Chertoff, Brown discouraged local fire and rescue operations outside of the affected states — Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi — from sending trucks and emergency workers into the disaster zone unless a specific request for help was issued by state or local governments, The Associated Press reports.

"The people of the Gulf region were struck by two disasters. First was the hurricane and then, the failure of the federal government in time of great need," Pelosi told the press. "The buck stops at the president's desk. The president said he's going to lead the investigation into what went wrong. He needs to look only in the mirror."

Pelosi's call for Brown's dismissal was echoed by several senators Tuesday night. Senator Barbara Mikulski, a Democrat from Maryland, told reporters Brown should step down quietly.

Senator Trent Lott, a Republican from Mississippi, urged lawmakers to focus their efforts on recovery before launching inquisitions, saying, "There'll be a time for that. Let's fix the problems that we've got to deal with now."

Several Democratic senators expressed that an independent commission, much like the one assembled following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks should be appointed to review the procedures followed and decisions made in Katrina's aftermath.

Meanwhile, CNN reports that Republican leaders have scrapped a House hearing to evaluate the response to Katrina, with plans to hold what was described by Majority Leader Tom DeLay as a "congressional review" by a joint House and Senate panel at a later date.



— Chris Harris

"The president said he's going to lead the investigation into what went wrong. He needs to look only in the mirror." — House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi
 
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spencurai

Purple Burglar Alarm
Location
WVC,UT
Barbie said:
Before his request to Chertoff, Brown discouraged local fire and rescue operations outside of the affected states — Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi — from sending trucks and emergency workers into the disaster zone unless a specific request for help was issued by state or local governments, The Associated Press reports.


I see nothing wrong with what he did. The federal government is prohibited from stepping in and taking over until they are asked by state and local governments.

You people always look for the conspiracy, there is NO conspiracy.

This guy did his job up to the point where he thought he would be stepping on toes...The governors and mayors involved are to blame for activation of emergency services...THEY FAILED. All they had to do was ask and they didn't. They had action plans for this kind of disaster and they ignored them completely...People want the federal government to take the blame...I am sorry to break it to you but it has to start with the mayor of new orleans and the mayors of other cities...THEY FAILED.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
spencurai said:
....This guy did his job up to the point where he thought he would be stepping on toes...The governors and mayors involved are to blame for activation of emergency services...THEY FAILED. All they had to do was ask and they didn't. They had action plans for this kind of disaster and they ignored them completely...People want the federal government to take the blame...I am sorry to break it to you but it has to start with the mayor of new orleans and the mayors of other cities...THEY FAILED.


Agreed... They waited WAY to long for someone else to come save them.

What I can't understand is why all these people just sat around and waited for instructions from others?

If I knew that Utah was going to flood, I wouldn't wait until I was forced to leave... In fact I would have started packing my stuff long in advance...

All I heard on the radio/TV for the week before the huricane was how disaterous it was going to be... yet they did NOTHING until the last minute. I put 99% of the blame on the individuals in most cases. They built their homes in an area that has been historically known to be dangerous. FEMA ranked the NO area as one of the biggest disaster areas for years... Good planning... :rolleyes:

If Utah got his with a pre-known disaster... I can't imaging everyone looting and yelling "where is OUR help" "where is the water".

PS, I have a 72 hour kit (would actually last for ~5 days) that I personally maintain in addition to my families storage of ~30 days... Guess the LDS church out some thought into their emergency prepareness plans??

And all this about bringing them to Utah, sure great idea, but I just heard on the radio that a big chunk of them are leaving on a Greyhound bus BACK to Texas to meet with family, etc. Why did we spent all that $$$ to bring them here if they just planned on getting out ASAP?

Sorry if I sound careless and rude, I feel very sorry for all those affected, but I truly think they had ALOT to do with their own demise. Same thing with people who build on the coast, on fault lines, mudslide areas, and river banks... good thinking... :rolleyes:
 

OCNORB

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Alpine
What ever happened to pepole taking care of each other as friends and neighbors used to do in these situations. I for one don't think that the federal government is responsible if something tragic happens to me or my property. This country used to be about being independent and socially responsible. Now it's about giving money to whatever group cries the loudest! Since when has any bereaucracy been known to move into action in a matter of hours. Besides these people did not have a crystal ball! They reacted as they began to find out the extent of the disaster. Going in without some forethought and planning would have been even worse. Then the headline would read "Bush sent untrained emergency responders to certain death at the hands of New Orleans gangs that he should have known were there killing everyone". :rolleyes:

This is the land of opportunity, People had the opportunity to evacuate, live somewhere else, buy flood insurance, get prepared, etc........ To blame a government for trying to respond and twisting a tragedy into a political smear game is just plain wrong. Turning it into a race issue is even worse.
 

OCNORB

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Alpine
Besides that Pelosi is one of the Sierra clubs best friends. As far as I am concerned that makes her less than reputable. Especially around here!
 

Chiksic

Resident Stoner
Location
a cloud of smoke
OCNORB said:
What ever happened to pepole taking care of each other as friends and neighbors used to do in these situations. I for one don't think that the federal government is responsible if something tragic happens to me or my property. This country used to be about being independent and socially responsible. Now it's about giving money to whatever group cries the loudest! Since when has any bereaucracy been known to move into action in a matter of hours. Besides these people did not have a crystal ball! They reacted as they began to find out the extent of the disaster. Going in without some forethought and planning would have been even worse. Then the headline would read "Bush sent untrained emergency responders to certain death at the hands of New Orleans gangs that he should have known were there killing everyone". :rolleyes:

This is the land of opportunity, People had the opportunity to evacuate, live somewhere else, buy flood insurance, get prepared, etc........ To blame a government for trying to respond and twisting a tragedy into a political smear game is just plain wrong. Turning it into a race issue is even worse.

Amen.
 

OCNORB

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Alpine
Great article Ace - It makes a lot of sense.

Here's the best part for those in a hurry.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

People living in piles of their own trash, while petulantly complaining that other people aren't doing enough to take care of them and then shooting at those who come to rescue them—this is not just a description of the chaos at the Superdome. It is a perfect summary of the 40-year history of the welfare state and its public housing projects.

The welfare state—and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages—is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.
 

Bud

'98 ZJ
Location
Syracuse
read this........

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster
of the Welfare State

by Robert Tracinski
Sep 02, 2005
by Robert Tracinski
It has taken four long days for state and federal
officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I
can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out
what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if
you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for
public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send
transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send
engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For
journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of
ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of
doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and
rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they
would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as
if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself
included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and
flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made
disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent
response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by
Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television
channel has gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans
did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four
decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New
Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them
to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have
behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they
have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it
is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to
the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they
spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially
true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own
initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us.
I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main
traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their
cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the
intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to
September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on,
here is a description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with
flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the
streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National
Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and
gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300
Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with
shoot-to-kill orders.

" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in
the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded.
These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do
so if necessary and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies
this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests,
riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble
of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It
looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as
an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes
unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them,
causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes
people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by
causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are
trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it
out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox
News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She
studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located
in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes,
one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The
projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and
irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television
coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the
"crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on
most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of
the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and
of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's
public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial
fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for
evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many
of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two
populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in
the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New
Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers
of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people
selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced
helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the
incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent
incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total
evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary.
But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is
to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to
political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of
emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can
tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President
Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New
Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an
execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian
who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely
the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite
of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological
consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an
emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a
disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the
difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the
government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster
as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they
worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't
own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their
businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about
those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off
of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality
it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral
ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is
reporting.
 

Bone Down

Well-Known Member
Just a general observation here, but what in the H does this reporter expect anyone to do? He states nothing happens until 5 hours after the storm hits the coast.
Does this reporter honestly think or miss pelosi think for that matter, that any sane person in any kind of authority would send in additional people into harms way of the storm??

Absolutly nothing happened in terms of releaf efforts until the tsunami had resided, same case in the Hurrican, you just can't send people in until you have had a chance to assess the damage. Take the numerous tornado's that tear up towns, no relief efforts are set into motion until the threat has dispursed.

5 hours into the Hurrican sounds to me he got a jump on the situation knowing that the local government would more than likely be needing assistance.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Bone Down said:
Just a general observation here, but what in the H does this reporter expect anyone to do? He states nothing happens until 5 hours after the storm hits the coast.
Does this reporter honestly think or miss pelosi think for that matter, that any sane person in any kind of authority would send in additional people into harms way of the storm??

Absolutly nothing happened in terms of releaf efforts until the tsunami had resided, same case in the Hurrican, you just can't send people in until you have had a chance to assess the damage. Take the numerous tornado's that tear up towns, no relief efforts are set into motion until the threat has dispursed.

5 hours into the Hurrican sounds to me he got a jump on the situation knowing that the local government would more than likely be needing assistance.


its cause Bush is in charge and its just soooo easy to blame him rather than look at the real issues ;)

same thing with the war, same thing with the economy, same thing with etc...lets look at the real issues and then lets take action. (not place blame)
 

Amy

Limited Supply Of Sanity
Location
!
Supergper said:
its cause Bush is in charge and its just soooo easy to blame him rather than look at the real issues ;)

same thing with the war, same thing with the economy, same thing with etc...lets look at the real issues and then lets take action. (not place blame)

So what are the "real issues" here? What actions do we need to take to solve the real issues?
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Barbie said:
So what are the "real issues" here? What actions do we need to take to solve the real issues?


well, do you honestly think the issue is the fact that the FEDERAL government had started to take action within the first five hours??? Rather then pointing fingers I would rather see them put their energy into figuring out how to help and provide for the victims of the huricane. How to solve the problem of the rapes, robberies, and murders. I'm not syaing everything was handled perfectly, I'm not even saying things were handled correctly at all but is placing blame accomplishing ANYTHING??? A public poll that was released yesterday said majority of people do not think ANYONE is to blame, how can you honestly blame anyone but mother nature???
 
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