Immigration Debate.

[Skylinerider]

They claim that illegal immigrants do the jobs that americans don't want to do. When I was unemployed, I would have gladly taken ANY job I could have to support me and my wife. I personally love landscaping work, but the wage is so low in that work because of immigrant labor. Employers look for illegal immigrants to higher BECAUSE they take a lower wage, not because the job only pays a lower wage. It benefits the employer until he gets caught. There is a huge problem with this in Sanpete county with the turkey farms. Growing up there I could never get a job on one of those farms, because they would have to pay me minimum wage and pay taxes on me instead of cash at the end of the day.

I'm tired of going in to McDonalds and needing a translator to order a coke.

I'm damn mad that my parents real estate value is dropping because the 25 people that live in the house next to them have completely destroyed it.

I'm damn mad that most of these high school age protestors are here legally and yet don't understand the issue.

Most of the LEGAL immigrants I have spoken with feel the same about illegal immigration as I do. These people have done everything right, spent years trying to get here and obey the law.

Just my .02

 

[offroaddave]

hmmm, well it's really sounding like there isn't much of a debate seems that we are all on the same page and same line of thinking

Glad to hear that, but ....WAIT........

 

[offroaddave]

I'm damn mad that most of these high school age protestors are here legally and yet don't understand the issue.

Most of the LEGAL immigrants I have spoken with feel the same about illegal immigration as I do. These people have done everything right, spent years trying to get here and obey the law.

Both these statments, Are Indeed fact.

 

[pumpkinbronc]

Let me give ya guys my .02, I live down here in Northern Mexico, ahh, excuse me southern Nevada. If you dont think these people arnt a burden on our economy think again. Most of them send half the money they make back to mexico, they mainly shop at Latino owned markets that sell mexican made products, most of them have no health care ins so if they do go to the hospital they throw down a fake name, we get the bill for that, alot of them dont understand the concept of auto insurance, if you drive down here and dont have uninsured motorist coverage your nuts. I work with a lot of these guys, most of them dont want ot be citizens of the US, the only reason they are here is to work, when they get enogh money or are ready to retire they plan on headin back home. I could go on all day. I think the best solution is to invade Mexico based on Humanitarian reasons, get its economy in shape then these guys will be happy to jump the fence back.

 

[Caleb]

IF you think that they are a burden on our economy I would have to say your partially wrong. The majority of your illegals work, why do I know this, I happened to be friends with one of the very few immigration Officers that are in the valley. He cannot arrest anyone, even if he knows that they are illegal, unless they have committed a felony level offense. Secondly, since they mostly work, they fudge a SSN number. In doing so they are paying monies into social security.........MILLIONS. Monies that they can never collect on when they get of retirement age, therefore the government doesn't want to stop them because they are making big bucks off of it.

Well, you have a few things wrong in this statement. Immigration Officers can arrest illegals if they know for sure they are illegal, however because of the system, they usually have to go through a thorough and lengthy investigation. Also, if you think just because they are paying in doesn't make them a burden think again. How often is it an illegal that is being arrested for things, quite often. Also, as pointed out earlier they are taking our jobs, if this is not a burden on our economy then I don't know what is. There's more to it than paying taxes, it's also being a law abiding citizen. Also, another point about working, how many of the terrorists that flew the planes intot he world trade center on 9/11 were contributing working people? (I'll give you a hint, they were all on the job when they attacked ). There was a very good point brought up on a radio talk show the other day about Bush. As most know Jeb Bush is his brother, but as most don't know, Jeb's wife is hispanic. I don;t know about you but I know every hispanic person I know has had a friend, relative, or family member come here illegally...I'm sure you can put the puzzle together yourself.

As for they need to learn "our" language, you better get used to it because by 2041 hispanics will be the majority of the population of the US. If you know US history this isn't the first time that we had "another" second langauge. Where I am originally from it is common day practice for folks to speak in their native tongue, that being Italian and Polish. What kills me is that the folks who are always pushing laws in favor of bi-langual are not the hispanics, it's the Anglo Saxons.

and by 2030 Mexico will no longer exist, it a California will both fall off the face of the earth you can pull stats out your butt all you want but they don't mean anything. The only way hispanics will be the major population in the US is if we LET them be. If they get stricter immigration laws and better border patrolling this would be a non-issue.

As for the waiving the mexican flag, I could never understand that either, if you wnan to be a citizen you would think that they would be waiving the US flag. Lastly, knowing quite a few folks that are legally in the country that have been awarded or trying to get US citizenship I can tell you that it is a money business, that could be dragged out for years. I think illegal is illegal but most of these conversations really have nothing to do with that, they are really mexican's versus the rest. Unless you are native american we all came about this country by immigration. BTW, I'm a pure WASP derived from my grandmother from Northern Ireland, 15 minutes from Belfast, so I grew up with all the stories of prejudice to this and that.

No one is saying to stop immigration, just make it legal. To think you could stop immigration is both naive and crazy. These converstions are mostly abotu mexican's versus the rest because they (right now) are the problem. I have nothing against mexicans, some of my best friends, co-workers, and family members are mexican and they are great people.

 

[Bone Down]

I actually feel really bad for the border towns due to the fact that they are the ones getting hit the hardest before they migrate to their final destinations.

I worked with several cuban, and san salvadorans, that would study on their lunch breaks in an effort to better learn english, and in an effort to obtain their citizenship, and to hear them talk now today about illegals, you would think they was going to go kick the illegals butts.

These guys are pretty pissed off due to the fact that they went through 3-5 years of forms, tests, applications, and etc. to become legal and the notion that the new group will get what would equate to a get out of jail free card.

A business associate of mine in LAX was in town just last week and made mention of an article that was run on the news or in one of the news papers, that reflected the fact that Mexico's top grossing products were as follows:

I forget 1,2,3 but #4 was the money that is sent home to mexico from the USA of which mexico lays a heavy tax on.

so it is no supprise that the President of Mexico does not want to do anything to assist in the controlling of the borders.

 

[teknodestrukto]

Ditto on most of the statements made so far. Regarding the claim that the US economy would collapse without illegal labor. This is ridiculous. Most of the illegals are in the lowest 3% of wage earners and therefore their "contribution" is insignificant to the economy. What is significant is that 60% of the "entitlements" paid out by the People's Republic of California are paid to illegals. 1/3rd of the US prison overpopulation are illegals. If the jobs, free medical care, free welfare $$$, instant citizenship to anyone born here and the open border were removed or reduced there would no longer be the demand to come here and the supply coming would diminish or stop. What happens to the value of a service or commodity if you flood the market with it? The value goes down. Therefore, the value (wages) of lower wage jobs go down if you flood the market with those willing to work below a living and legal wage.

I lived next to a man and his family who had immigrated legally. It took him 12years to get everything completed, but he did it. He has an engineering degree. He told me one day that the majority of those who come here illegally have nothing to offer the economy or society in Mexico so they come here, without any skills or ways to be contributing members of our society, so they can get the free lifestyle our native socialists provide.

Those protesting in SLC were shouting communist and socialist propaganda. They feel that the southwest was illegally taken from Mexico and that it is their rightful homeland and birthright. They want to take over this area economically and socially by flooding the area with like minded people. Groups like La Raza and Aztilan (SP?) want to take over California and the apathetic people there probably deserve it. After California comes the rest of the southwest, back to the pre-1800's borders.

We, however, need to fight this or we will lose. If you think it's bad now just wait. Just ask the South Afrikans. Write a letter to your Rep and Senator, both State and Federal and tell them what you think. There are hundreds (thousands?) of RME'ers and that means something to a politician. It's all about our votes. It's just like the land use issues...If we don't fight, we lose.

 

[ZUKEYPR]

Hey there Caleb, don't get me wrong, I'm by no means pro-illegals, I'm against it. I'm just playing devils advocate here.
I did say partially incorrect, not completely. I do realize that they do work some jobs under the table, but who's fault is that really? It's the guy who hired them. Why do they spend their money "allegedly" at primarily hispanic type markets? I don't know do think maybe it's because they speak their language. hello! Go to Europe and see where all the GI's go to eat ...........McDonalds! Why, because it's something they recognize. Besides that I don't know if that statement is all that true anyway, go to Wal-mart in Taylorsville or Jordan Landing on any given day.


Sorry, I respect your opinion on the terrorist issue, but I absolutely disagree with it. Folks now a days seem to thing that all terrorists are foreigners when in fact some of the biggest ones that we had have been americans. have you ever heard of Timothy McVie? How about Ted Kazinski (You would think coming from SWPA that I could spell a polish name.....not a chance).

O as for pulling numbers out my butt. I deal with demographics all day bud..............2041 is the year. Just a little, probably insignificant example to most but speaks volumes where I come from, my first hispanic that I ever met my entire life was my drill sergeant. Never ever seen one, nor an Asain or Pacific Islander for that matter. Now when I go home I found out that they passed a law making English the official langauge, that all the business signs are in both english and spanish. Why you ask? It's not because of illegals. It's because we let it that way. By making businesses and schools operate as bilingual we are not forcing folks to learn the english language. My grandmother to this day doesn't speak very good english. If your saying to yourself Irish do speak english you've obviously have never met someone that actually came off the boat, literally. Personally it's my believe that prior to say.....20 years ago the fact that evryone needed to speak english to function in this country was part of the reason that make it a melting pot. I mean it's the law makers (primarily not hispanic) that allow drivers test be given in multi languages.

 

[mr_blove]

Go to Europe and see where all the GI's go to eat ...........McDonalds! Why, because it's something they recognize. Sorry, I respect your opinion on the terrorist issue, but I absolutely disagree with it. Folks now a days seem to thing that all terrorists are foreigners when in fact some of the biggest ones that we had have been americans. have you ever heard of Timothy McVie? How about Ted Kazinski (You would think coming from SWPA that I could spell a polish name.....not a chance).
QUOTE]


I was in germany(not very long I admit) and I didnt eat once at a McDonalds or any other americanized resturant (except the chow hall for breakfast) I made it a point to get out and mingle with the locals and eat and drink what they do and it was hella fun!!

No we cant protect against all terrorist but you gotta start somewhere and as far as national terrorist we have measeures against them too, ever hear of a orginization called the FBI or NSA maybe Homeland security???? Thats their job.

 

[pELYgroso]

I must apologize to everyone for my screen name I guess. pelygroso is, in fact, spanish. (except there's an I where the Y is, but Ely is my last name so it fits.) (and peligroso means "dangerous")

but I agree with the general gist of what's being said. I run a few crews of Mexican roofers who probably aren't on the legal side of things and I'm kinda torn because I agree that they should be legal or gone, but at the same time, I can't find ANY white roofers out there, and believe me, they get paid a lot for what they do!

If Jack Bauer were here, he'd know what to do.....

 

[00Buck]

Student protest in Whittier area students from Pioneer, California and Whittier high schools walked out of classes to protest the proposed federal immigration bill March 27, 2006. The protestors put up the Mexican flag over the American flag flying upside down at Montebello High.

 

[Caleb]

I must apologize to everyone for my screen name I guess. pelygroso is, in fact, spanish. (except there's an I where the Y is, but Ely is my last name so it fits.) (and peligroso means "dangerous")

but I agree with the general gist of what's being said. I run a few crews of Mexican roofers who probably aren't on the legal side of things and I'm kinda torn because I agree that they should be legal or gone, but at the same time, I can't find ANY white roofers out there, and believe me, they get paid a lot for what they do!

If Jack Bauer were here, he'd know what to do.....

it's not the fact of finding caucasian workers, but the fact of just employing LEGAL workers (race is un-important). If you say you can't find LEGAL workers then you are not trying...no two ways about it, if McDonalds can find legal workers then anyone should be able to.

 

[mr_blove]

Student protest in Whittier area students from Pioneer, California and Whittier high schools walked out of classes to protest the proposed federal immigration bill March 27, 2006. The protestors put up the Mexican flag over the American flag flying upside down at Montebello High.

If your country is so great that you have to disgrace and dishonor our flag like that then G T F O some people have given their sweat, blood tears, time, and even their lives for what that flag stands for (including freedom of speech, what they are doing) but I still feel it nothing justifys that!!! The only people that I know about that hang the american flag upside down like that are anarchist, terrorists(they prefer to burn them) and those that oppose the goverment. And I feel extremely strong about this it just pisses me off!!!!

 

[offroaddave]

Student protest in Whittier area students from Pioneer, California and Whittier high schools walked out of classes to protest the proposed federal immigration bill March 27, 2006. The protestors put up the Mexican flag over the American flag flying upside down at Montebello High.

THAT PHOTOGRAPH IS VERY RACIST. (among other diturbing things).

 

[Catherine]

I guess my question is what do you do with families that have illegal parents but children that were born in the US?

My second question is the laws and bills that have been passed with enforcing immigration are not being enforced why not? Why are the employers not being fined for employing illegal aliens?

 

[Caleb]

Why are the employers not being fined for employing illegal aliens?

There is actually a Bill thats trying to get through right now that would change this. This is a HUGE problem because there currently isn't any ENFORCED reprocusion(sp?). Basically it says that if the Social Security Number comes up stolen and not matching (which they currently get a report each year with this info on it) the employer can not claim that income as an expense. Once some of these Smaller companies (roofing, landscaping, etc) start loosing out on these tax breaks they will quickly be getting rid of any illegals.

As for your question about the parents being illegal...my opinion, tough luck, send them back home, just because they breed like rabbits is not (or should not be) our problem...illegal is illegal no matter how it's spelled.

That is a good question about current immigration laws, it started back in 1986 and has NEVER been enforced since it's inception.

 

[Catherine]

Which brings me to the question of why should they enforce this new law if it gets passed by congress if they have not enforced the old laws?

 

[Caleb]

Which brings me to the question of why should they enforce this new law if it gets passed by congress if they have not enforced the old laws?

gotta start somewhere

the current laws are not very clear and the penalties are even less clear.

BTW, the new laws that would effect employers are not a matter of being enforced, it all would come down to their taxes, if they want to try their hand at tax fraud then go right ahead but most these little companies would not be able to afford the penalties if they were to get caught.

 

[waynehartwig]

I guess my question is what do you do with families that have illegal parents but children that were born in the US?

They can all go home. Chances are they were here illegally when the kids were born, AND they probably didn't have insurance to pay for it which in turn makes the tax payers pay for it.

 

[AINT SKEERED]

They can all go home.

That 'bout sums it up.