Interesting idea for EJS 2007

[lenny]

Alright! I like the ideas of trash bags and dumpsters located at certain locations.

 

[1993yj]

As for the citizens group collecting a toll I don't agree, RR4W should be doing it.

x2. The citizens already get the benefits of "us" bringing tons of cash into their town. A toll should go towards keeping the lands clean and open, and RR4W already knows how to do it.

If a toll isn't enforced, maybe RME members could start the trend of donating to RR4W, whether they run the organized trail runs or not. I personally don't like going with a huge, usually less-equipped group of vehicles. I have a large enough group as it is with my brothers and dad and others, but I am all for keeping the trails open. A great point was made earlier about how much money we put into our rigs, what is $10 towards our trails.

 

[Andy]

Me too!! I am not opposed to RR4W collecting a toll as you come to town for that week. Ten dollars is a drop in the bucket to what we all have into our 4x4's.

 

[Andy]

I know alot of people on here have issues with EJS, I know I have had mine. My biggest issue is policing the idiots and I know RR4W have a real issue with this as it defeats their purpose. So by enforcing a toll to all who intend to wheel in Moab at that time is a great idea. I think it would be a huge boost to RR4W to have that money. That way we all help whether we are riding with them or not.

 

[scoutabout]

It said "do Moab soon before it all goes away." I don't think we are close to that yet but I think the area needs to be treated as a resource and taken care of.

We're probably closer to this than you might think. Everyone should be aware that RR4W spends a HUGE amount of money fighting lawsuits and anti-access groups to keep Moab trails open. Eventually, the enemy's resources will outweigh our ability to fight them.

The money generated by EJS (official participants) is what keeps Moab open. That's it. If you want to help, pay to become an official participant (even if you don't go on an EJS trail ride), donate to the MUD fund, etc.

 

[BlackSheep]

If you want to help, pay to become an official participant (even if you don't go on an EJS trail ride), donate to the MUD fund, etc.

In fact, the mud fund is where you can donate your $10.

 

[Andy]

I'm saying that all that are there need to contribute whether they participate or not. I am one of the people who does not participate in their organized runs and I don't mind the fact of paying a toll to help them out. They take all the criticism for that week being a time of destruction and wrecklessness. Make it mandatory, the only reason other people are there (besides the actual participants) at that time is to wheel and see whats new.

 

[drtsqrl]

Originally posted by mbryson
Jeff, any ideas on that? The only way I've seen results with that is through actual confrontation while the person who went off the trail is in the act of doing so. ....but then there's tire tracks and people will follow those......

I wish I knew the answer, but I don't!

Catching someone in the act of going off-trail rarely happens, and then it may end up in an ugly confrontation. Not everyone is willing to confront an offender, but we should all try to do it if the opportunity presents itself. I personally saw someone creating a new route on two occasions this year. After talking to the people, they got back on the trail each time. Unfortunately, one of the occasions resulted in a shouting match, with both me and the offender losing their tempers, but at least there was no trail damage as a result.

As I see it, there are three things we can do. The first is general education, but that is a long, slow and never-ending process that will never result in complete satisfaction. However, it is still extremely important, and groups such as U4WDA, Utah Trail Patrol and Tread Lightly! do a great job at it.

Second is direct confrontation. If you see someone off-trail, try to educate them. Or at least note their license plate and report them to the proper authorities.

Third is signing. Yes it's ugly, but I think it is probably the best on-the-ground deterance. Our club works very closely with BLM signing and barricading illegal routes. And of course along with signing, there must be regular follow-up to maintain the signs and repair off-trail damage. But Moab is a big place, and trail work is a big job!

And by the way, if anyone does see newly created illegal routes in Moab, I would love to hear about them! Shoot me a PM, or email me at drtsqrl@frontiernet.net. If we know about new problems, Moab-Friends-For-Wheelin' or RR4W can schedule a run to check it out, and hopefully repair the damage.

 

[Andy]

If you have a boat, you pay to use the lake. Why shouldn't it be the same for Moab during EJS? It could pay for the resources of providing more people to police the bad ones or should I say uneducated?

 

[drtsqrl]

As for charging a "toll" for all jeepers who come to Moab during EJS, it's a nice thought (I'd pay my 10 bucks if I new it was going to help save our trails), but I doubt it could legally be done, much less enforced. What would you do, set up road blocks and charge a fee to anyone passing through with a 4x4? And RR4W certainly wouldn't do it... they run (and charge for) Easter Jeep Safari, not the thousands of tag-alongs. And even if money were somehow collected, who would administer it? Like Kurt said, RR4W already donates thousands of dollars each year back to the local community, and pays thousands more for BLM and State user fees. I'm sure only a small percentage (if any) of those BLM user fees actually go back to maintaining trails, at least directly, so I don't think giving the money to BLM would be the answer.

Here's an idea. Charge a toll, and give all the money to me. I'll quit my job, and spend ALL my time out on the trail picking up trash and repairing trail damage. (Just kidding, but that would be a dream job!)

 

[Andy]

Hahahaha! I think alot of us would do that for a living if we could. I see your point of how to enforce that. You would know better than I of the inner workings of RR4W. I know it is a big issue for them, what to do about the crowd that comes and causes problems for all.

 

[James K]

so are all the truck drivers and general people just using that particular stretch of highway also going to be subject to this "toll"?

come on this is a unenforcable option to the problem.

 

[ChestonScout]

In fact, the mud fund is where you can donate your $10.

I was reading through and thought this exact thing. If you want to make a toll just donate it to the mud fund. That way RR4W get the money and they know where it needs to go to keep the trails open. Whether it be paying for trail cleanup or paying courts and lawyers to help keep trails open. Everyone should donate to this. If you donate 20 bucks at the arena (like when you register) you even get a hat. What more can you ask for?

Whether you run trails with the club or not.........donate to the mud fund.



The Safari last year was a lot more mellow than it has been in the past. I have been going for the last 6 years and it was the slowest year of the 6 in my experience anyway. Hopefully the mellow mood will continue.

 

[notajeep]

I will donate my $10 today. Send some one by ALCO or let me know where I can give it to the RR4w.
(Maybe one day I will accually make it out to a meeting)

 

[mbryson]

Not to belittle the RR4W efforts (and I LOVE the idea of registering for the event even if you're doing your own thing), but it'd be VERY WELCOME to send a little $$ at USA-ALL. They actually do a lot of the dirty work and know what they are doing. If everybody sent them a measely $5 per month (it's VERY easy and can be set up as a checking or credit card account draw) I'm sure that'd help. That's only $60 per year to help keep your trails available.

 

[drtsqrl]

Originally Posted by notajeep
I will donate my $10 today. Send some one by ALCO or let me know where I can give it to the RR4w.

Get ahold of Greenjeep (he's on this board, but I don't think his computer is working right now) or Ber Knight (he's in the phone book). Either one can tell you how to donate to the Mud Fund.

By the way notajeep, we need to run a trail together sometime! I hope we can meet each other during winter convention.

 

[notajeep]

I'll be there.... er.... here, I mean.

 

[gijohn40]

I have a challenge for all of you.

While you are all down enjoying yourselves during EJS... stop and pick up some trash when you do see it. Make an impression on everybody else that doesn't. I know many of you already do this, but step it up a notch. Maybe RME should band together for a day and do a massive dispersed trail clean up on one of the last days.

I think it would make a pretty big impact on how clean the trails stay and how many of us are viewed by those who don't participate in our hobby, especially with the attention that week already receives.

I think something like that would be stronger than any words that you can throw at the person who wrote that letter.

I didn't have time to read this all but I read enough to know what the jist was... I think that someone needs to invite the author out on a trail with the RR4W so that he can see that we do carry garbage bags and we do pick up trash as we wheel and that during the breaks most of the people will wonder off in different directions and bring trash in as they all come back to their vehicles... sure it helps to educate the people that are throwing the trash down but also educate the people that are thinking that we are all bad guys... I personally would love to have the author ride along with me so that he can see the bag or two that I usually collect while out there and I am usually there the weekend before easter!
John

 

[Seth]

All of this is great. The discussion, the debate, the plans... all of it. Keep in mind that if it goes no further then this website we are still preaching to the choir.

I would suggest that if you have strongly held beliefs gather your thoughts, write them down, edit them so you make a strong point and sound educated about the subject and respond directly to the criticism. Almost every day there is an article in one of the local papers about land use, Our best defense is a good offense. Letters to the editor that are sharp and accurate are a great tool. And stay away from the attacks... they make you sound like the tool that wrote the editorial that started this discussion.

When I started getting involved in land use issues I held my tongue, thinking that "they" know more than me. But you know what? "They" don't and your opinion is just as valid and needed sorely more.

Sack up and write! I dare ya!

 

[Bart]

I'm saying that all that are there need to contribute whether they participate or not. I am one of the people who does not participate in their organized runs and I don't mind the fact of paying a toll to help them out. They take all the criticism for that week being a time of destruction and wrecklessness. Make it mandatory, the only reason other people are there (besides the actual participants) at that time is to wheel and see whats new.

Andy, I see your point, and I donate to RR4W and gun some trails for them during EJS.

The biggest problem I see with the "toll" is who enforces it and how? RR4W is too busy trying to run EJS, they do not have the man power to collect tolls.

State highway 191 that runs through Moab is a major road that links the west to Colorado, New Mexico, Texas and beyond so you can't just toll everyone.

So maybe you just hit the 4x4s? I've been through Moab during EJS going to Farmington to a comp. There's no way I'm going to pay $10 to access a state highway that I'm using.

Don't get me wrong, I don't object to the idea. In fact I already support the idea by being a member of the RR4W. I just don't see how it could be enforced outside of an organized function.