Land Use Seminar

[cruiseroutfit]

Fwiw I have Class B county road maps from several counties. Some were harder to get than others but all were helpful and willing to get them for me.

This is the site I was talking about at the seminar:
http://recorded2477roads.utah.gov/

Its a great starting point, you'll see some Counties have more brass than others, SLC for example is weak-sauce on the issue:
http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/landuse_slcounty.html

 

[Tacoma]

I've got a map for Tooele County from maybe '02, was not easy to get! I'm going to try to get a newer one tomorrow. Supposedly they revamped it since then.

EDIT: no, they definitely did. All the maps on the 2477 site are '08ish. Sweet! I'll have to print these out and get some data/pictures in Tooele County.

 

[scoutabout]

Steve, your a lot more tech savvy than me. How would you handle this much data?

There's only one way, using GIS format. Portable and standardized. Much of the existing data is already available from the counties and land managers in GIS. Combined with a lightweight software rendering package like Arcview, and it's a great tool. Interface directly with management agencies, and it's easy to categorize data (roads of various class, structures, landmarks, etc, etc).

Seems like a previous U4WDA president identiied GIS capability as a pet project someone could take on, going so far as to list it as a volunteer-ready project. No one ever did. Hat pins, conventions, trail rides and board member jackets won out.

I believe Eric R has a ton of links to available GIS shapefiles for almost all of Utah.

As you've pointed out, the route submission tool is klunky at best (although a great effort). It's got to be easier for people to submit information. Requires project leader, standards, maintenance, revision, resources. Same story as every worthwhile project.

 

[anderson750]

Its a great starting point, you'll see some Counties have more brass than others, SLC for example is weak-sauce on the issue:
http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/landuse_slcounty.html

How much BLM land is there within Salt Lake County?

 

[scoutabout]

Fwiw I have Class B county road maps from several counties. Some were harder to get than others but all were helpful and willing to get them for me.

This is the site I was talking about at the seminar:
http://recorded2477roads.utah.gov/

Great link! Those maps are rendered using GIS data and a commercial viewer.

Here's more info:

http://agrc.its.state.ut.us/

I've got a map for Tooele County from maybe '02, was not easy to get! I'm going to try to get a newer one tomorrow. Supposedly they revamped it since then.

Yes, but it's non-transferrable. You can't hand that to someone to integrate it into a dataset. It's visual data which makes it impossible to compare large quantities of information (comparing existing vs documented vs designated for example).

 

[Tacoma]

I'll be asking them what, if any, data they have or will allow someone to have, that might BE transferrable... I see a lot of coordinates and whatnot on the maps they have up on the site Kurt linked, not sure if they've got something more.. handy or not.

I've been talking to a surveyor down the hall from Jackrabbit, he was running for County Surveyor and may be helpful with some of this stuff...

 

[scoutabout]

GIS data is stored in binary format and doesn't equate to coordinates of any kind. Most counties and land management units have a technical employee in a map/data/gis dept who will likely provide you any data you politely ask for. Kurt knows about this stuff, he'll help you.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

How much BLM land is there within Salt Lake County?

Very little, but RS2477 is not exclusive to BLM, it pertains to any federal lands of which SL County has quite a bit. There is some debate over wether or not the proposed ROW has to predate the designation of a Forest system but in fact RS247 cases could likely be argued on some forest lands. My disgust with SL County was less with the end result and more with the means they dropped the claims, read "I couldn't give them a reason they were on there" from the mayor. Its these roll-overs that have contributed to not only our current standing but just as much the feeling that the feds often have limitless power.

 

[jackjoh]

I am withholding comment until tomorrow. I basically agree with all of the above statements about how it could have been better but it is a beginning and what I had hoped would come out of USA-ALL when I was a board member. Will comment on the so called rift after I have had time to think about what to say.

First, we are all in this fight together and hopefully this is the beginning of healing the wound.
In 2007 the BOD of USA-ALL decided to replace Rainer Huck and Steve Jackson as President with Dirk Beckstrand and retain Mike Swensen as Executive Director instead of hiring a new person for this position. I as a board member voted against these actions because of some things that happened with money and I was not sure we had a legal by-laws quorum. The 4x4 community and specifically U4WDA decided we would support the new USA-ALL with physical help but would not support them with money which we have done except in the case of the Canaan Mtn. suite where we gave $1000 to USA-ALL to be used for that activity only.
It is now 2011 and USA-ALL under the guidance of Mike Swensen and Paul Anderson its new President and its BOD has started to become the organization that we wanted. I cannot speak for all U4WDA members but I am encouraged by this progress and will support them in any way I can.

 

[anderson750]

First, we are all in this fight together and hopefully this is the beginning of healing the wound.
In 2007 the BOD of USA-ALL decided to replace Rainer Huck and Steve Jackson as President with Dirk Beckstrand and retain Mike Swensen as Executive Director instead of hiring a new person for this position. I as a board member voted against these actions because of some things that happened with money and I was not sure we had a legal by-laws quorum. The 4x4 community and specifically U4WDA decided we would support the new USA-ALL with physical help but would not support them with money which we have done except in the case of the Canaan Mtn. suite where we gave $1000 to USA-ALL to be used for that activity only.
It is now 2011 and USA-ALL under the guidance of Mike Swensen and Paul Anderson its new President and its BOD has started to become the organization that we wanted. I cannot speak for all U4WDA members but I am encouraged by this progress and will support them in any way I can.

Thanks for your support Jack. It has been a long process, but I feel there have been a lot of changes for the good over the last year.

 

[ret32]

...I know it can be done, it is just going to take a huge amount of volunteer effort on the inside to do the work...

...if there are enough people that WOULD volunteer to run the roads and document this stuff.

...It's not unrealistic, it's just a tall order.

Agreed that the entire project through to its completion is a huge effort that will take tons of help and tons of time and tons of coordination between several different groups. That's discouraging enough to seriously consider quitting before it's even started.

However, how many volunteers and how much effort does it take to document ONE road segment? How many volunteers does it take to write that one road segment on a list? How many volunteers does it take to send an updated copy of that list to organization A and organization B?

On the simplest level, I would say that the example above is a good start and, if it helps prevent a Wild Lands designation, or helps one more congressman oppose ARRWA, or if it helps one County with a single RS2477 claim, then the project is a success. Right?

Anybody want to help?

I've got a DeLorme Atlas and a box of crayons!! JK

But seriously, I'll volunteer to contact Iron County and Beaver County and find out what maps and map data they can provide. I planned on getting the maps anyway for personal reasons so why not spend an extra few minutes on the phone asking a few extra questions.

Check your PMs