Let's talk about the F.I.R.E. movement (Financially Independent, Retire Early).

[spaggyroe]

Dempsey (@TurboMinivan) started an excellent thread about investing

I just opened a Roth IRA, and am ready to invest in the stock market

It looks like RME has not had a discussion on investing since at least 2010, so I figured I'd begin a new thread. I've been at my job for over 21 years. We have a company 401(k) plan, and I'm doing fairly well with that. I just upped my contribution from 8% to 10%, and I get an extra 2% from...

www.rme4x4.com

which got me wondering... are any RME-ers actively pursuing the F.I.R.E movement (A.K.A., early retirement).

My dad retired at 57, which while this isn't super early (according to the F.I.R.E. movement), it afforded him the opportunity to do some fun things before his health turned south.

The basic premise of F.I.R.E. is pretty simple... aggressively save and invest enough to cover your living expenses indefinitely.

Is anyone on here pursuing early retirement, or have achieved early retirement?
If so, what tips do you have for those looking in to this?

I'm interested to hear RME's thoughts and input on this.

 

[I Lean]

Dempsey (@TurboMinivan) started an excellent thread about investing

I just opened a Roth IRA, and am ready to invest in the stock market

It looks like RME has not had a discussion on investing since at least 2010, so I figured I'd begin a new thread. I've been at my job for over 21 years. We have a company 401(k) plan, and I'm doing fairly well with that. I just upped my contribution from 8% to 10%, and I get an extra 2% from...

www.rme4x4.com

which got me wondering... are any RME-ers actively pursuing the F.I.R.E movement (A.K.A., early retirement).

My dad retired at 57, which while this isn't super early (according to the F.I.R.E. movement), it afforded him the opportunity to do some fun things before his health turned south.

The basic premise of F.I.R.E. is pretty simple... aggressively save and invest enough to cover your living expenses indefinitely.

Is anyone on here pursuing early retirement, or have achieved early retirement?
If so, what tips do you have for those looking in to this?

I'm interested to hear RME's thoughts and input on this.

No, but I wish I'd started saving 20 years earlier than I did. I could probably be retired right now.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

No, but I wish I'd started saving 20 years earlier than I did. I could probably be retired right now.

But think of all the fun things you did with that money. The experiences, the memories... things you can't/won't so when you're retired at 50.

I'd rather have amazing experiences when they are available now... and work into my 70's if I have to. Simply put, many of the things I'm wasting money on now... won't be an option for a 50 or 60 yr old version of you or I. What's a bunch of retirement money if you don't have anything "exciting" to conciously spend it on?

 

[jeeper]

I have always said that you only have to earn what you spend. If you are happy with a smaller home, older vehicles, minimal doo-dads, etc you can save quickly and retire early.
'The every day millionaire' claims that school teachers are in the top 3 professions that retire as millionaires, largely because their lifestyle is usually pretty simple. No need for fancy cars and homes to impress fellow teachers.

 

[jeeper]

But think of all the fun things you did with that money. The experiences, the memories... things you can't/won't so when you're retired at 50.

I'd rather have amazing experiences when they are available now... and work into my 70's if I have to. Simply put, many of the things I'm wasting money on now... won't be an option for a 50 or 60 yr old version of you or I. What's a bunch of retirement money if you don't have anything "exciting" to conciously spend it on?

I think there is some merit to this.. sort of.
If 70 year old you is living in a trailer park, with SS as your source of income, you are not living a good life, and blowing all your money early was a bad idea.

Flip side though, if you are at least on-track to a decent retirement, and choose to spend freely with anything extra, that seems like fun. We don't HAVE to save every penny we make for retirement.

We have NEVER paid for a television, TV service (netflix, cable, etc.), and don't have any gaming consoles. My kids have a $15 flip phone. I blow a TON of money on camping, dirt bikes, and racing.
We have made very specific decisions to spend every penny where WE want it to be spent. This has kind of allowed us to have our cake and eat it too.

 

[Unimog]

I'm kind of with Kurt. I guess retirement means different things to different people and I may be reading something else into your statements. I'm at a stage where I enjoy the work I do and it allows me the ability to do the things I want. I have enough saved that I could safely retire if I wanted to sit in a lazyboy and browse Facebook all day or just work on projects in the garage. I'm mid 50s now and I'll probably tone back work over the next 10 years to less of a full-time load or replace it with a mission or some kind of volunteer work where I can still use my skills and energy on something useful.

 

[I Lean]

But think of all the fun things you did with that money. The experiences, the memories... things you can't/won't so when you're retired at 50.

I'd rather have amazing experiences when they are available now... and work into my 70's if I have to. Simply put, many of the things I'm wasting money on now... won't be an option for a 50 or 60 yr old version of you or I. What's a bunch of retirement money if you don't have anything "exciting" to conciously spend it on?

I'm not saying I should have saved every penny I earned...just saved SOME, so it would have been growing for me this whole time.

 

[spaggyroe]

I'm kind of with Kurt. I guess retirement means different things to different people.

VERY true statement. I also think there are 2 angles to view regarding the whole F.I.R.E. thing.
Financially Independent, and retire early, are very different things.

I'm certainly no expert in all of this, but from what I've read, it feels like a lot of people pursuing it are doing so because they want more freedom in their life, no necessarily because they want to kick back and not work / contribute / create, etc.

Also, there are a lot of people are unhappy with their jobs, and want out. @cruiseroutfit and you seem to both enjoy what you do, which would certainly change ones perspective on all of this. There's definitely merit in saying that many people are intentional about their jobs / careers, and others that should make a change now rather than be unhappy for the next XX number of years. I guess that's a different discussion altogether.

 

[skippy]

Up to this point in my life (32 years old) I have only contributed to retirement accounts. I have maxed out my yearly contributions since I was roughly 23-24. Current projections show I will live a pretty decent retirement... Although I cant really touch that money until retirement age. I have been thinking very hard about backing off contributions to my retirement accounts and investing in something I can cash out of much earlier to help aid the early retirement/lifestyle.

 

[Stephen]

My ex-wife was all about early retirement and we aggressively saved, watched every penny, all that. At the time it was like, "Yeah, we could retire when we're 50. That'd be cool!" In retrospect, it was miserable. We never really did anything fun (travel, hobbies, etc) over the five years we were married. After we divorced, I changed my mindset and decided that if I wanted to blow $$$ on a trip to Australia; do it. New vehicle, lift, camping gear, etc so I can better enjoy my hobbies here and now, do it. Giving @Cody all my money for brewing supplies, do it. I never went in debt for stuff, but I really wasn't saving.
Nine years on I'm not quite as frivolous with my paychecks as I was, but I feel like I've reached a pretty good equilibrium. I have enough in my bank account to weather a downturn (learned the hard way after a job loss back in 2015 that you absolutely have to have an emergency fund), but I'm not so thrifty that if something shiny catches my eye, I'm not willing to consider it. My current retirement plan puts me on track to retire in my late 60's, which is standard these days I suppose. But along the way I'll enjoy my life.

 

[N-Smooth]

I'm currently trying to find a balance. I'm 37 and knowing that the wife and I are projected to have a pretty solid retirement is nice but it doesn't do anything for me until I'm old.

As a kid I always thought my dad would live it up during his retirement and finally start spending money instead of saving it all but honestly all my parents do is go to grandkids' sports games. He loves it but I think it's a bummer. I did talk them into buying a new RV and traveling a little so he's working on that now. Long story short, I don't want to be like that. If that means I need to retire earlier when I still want to do things, so be it. Having the ability to make that happen is going to be a challenge but that's ok. Lately we've been discussing keeping our current home when we move and renting it out. I think that idea along with our current investments just might be the ticket.

 

[Unimog]

There are obviously more factors to happiness than financial independence. I will just throw in here that becoming financially independent at the expense of your health or relationships is the stupidest thing anyone could do. Taking care of your body so you can enjoy the last half of your life is far more important than having money to spend. In reality, if you don't, you will end up spending all the money you socked away primarily on medical expenses. As I get older, I see this happening with a lot of family members and friends.

 

[TurboMinivan]

I have always said that you only have to earn what you spend. If you are happy with a smaller home, older vehicles, minimal doo-dads, etc you can save quickly and retire early.

This is certainly the heart of the matter. If you manage to live well within your means, and you don't blow the excess on hookers and... well, blow, then pretty much anyone can retire before they are in their mid-to-late 60s.

I'm kind of with Kurt. I guess retirement means different things to different people

It definitely does mean different things to different people--even within the FIRE movement itself. Followers of that mantra divide themselves into two subcategories: lean FIRE and fat FIRE. Lean FIRE folks have a goal of just being able to survive without working; as soon as they have sufficient income to keep food in their stomachs, they'll quit their jobs, buy an old cargo van, convert it into a makeshift cheap RV, and live frugally where they want. (That's one example.) The fat FIRE folks, OTOH, want to set themselves up for a retired life of ballin' luxury--the fancy cars, the yacht, etc--and as soon as they can cover that lifestyle, they'll retire and begin living the dream 24/7. There is even an in-between group known as Barista FIRE.

Just because you are saving for an early retirement does not mean you cannot enjoy life along the way. Again, the key is to live below your means. If you're saving 25% of your income for retirement (for example), arrange your life so you can support yourself on only 50% of your income. Then you can use the remaining 25% for travel, hobbies, luxuries, or whatever.

The idea of spending some money on things you enjoy is stressed by Ramit Sethi in his book I Will Teach You to Be Rich. Whereas many financial gurus such as Suzie Orman discourage you from buying your daily cup of coffee ("If you invested that money instead of blowing it on coffee, you'd have an extra $200,000 when you retire!!!"), Ramit tells you to instead spend consciously. Cut out spending on things that don't bring you any significant satisfaction or happiness, but continue to spend on what really matters to you. This will make you happy rather than miserable, and help you stay on your financial path to reach your goals.

 

[Corban_White]

I've been reading the investing thread as well as the wish you knew thread and I keep thinking about posting, but I think here is the best place for my thoughts. I agree with much of what Kurt said. Due to having a pension from my employer, I'm eligible to retire at 58 or so (21 years from now 😭😢), but just being eligible doesn't mean that I will be financially able to at that age. My house will be paid off in 2 more years, I have several months' expenses in savings but I don't really have anything in the way of investments. I plan to start investing when the house is paid off. I know that isn't necessarily the most financially prudent way to go about things, but debt gives me anxiety so I have put everything I can for the last 15 years toward eliminating it. We don't have a lot of extra after the bills are paid so I have to choose between investing and hobbies/vacations (kind of the same for us). I choose hobbies/vacations. We camp/visit friends a lot (17+ weekends last year) and we mountain bike, hike and drive R/C cars when we are camping/visiting. I have 2 kids that are 9 and 11. My thought is that I am currently trading my investment in retirement for investment in my family. If it means I have to retire later in life that is a price I am willing to pay.

It's all well and good to say you wish you had invested more and earlier, but would you really make the sacrifice to do it? I saw a figure in the other thread of 20%. I know everyone's finances are different, but If I had done that starting when I got married, I would not have been able to afford most of the things or memories I have now and continue to build. 15 years ago when we bought our "starter" house (that we still live in) we didn't have 5% left for discretionary things after all the bills were paid. As our income grew we refinanced to a 15 year, it grew again, we had kids, it grew again, the kids got more expensive (we started camping, mountain biking, and man-groceries have gone up a ton in the last 15 years!). So my thoughts are that I'd rather kick the "retirement" can down the road a bit rather than kicking the "enjoy my life" can down the road. I'm trying to balance them both in my own way.

A year or so ago we had a retirement seminar at my work and one of the older guys told a story about working most of the summer as a teenager to buy a rifle. He talked about how much money he would have made by now if he had just invested that money instead. I went up to him after and asked if he could go back, knowing everything he knows now, would he trade the rifle for the investment? He said no, he'd still buy the rifle. The experiences ha had with it were worth the cost, even when you compound the interest. YMMV.

 

[mesha]

I typed a really long response and then decided to edit it down.

Doing a job that you hate is stupid. Don't just make the necessary sacrifices to retire early, make the sacrifices needed to work in a job you don't hate. If that means going back to school, getting additional training, moving, etc. do it. I do save a bunch toward retirement, but I like to have fun too.

I would retire today if I could, but it isn't realistic for me. Instead I do a job I like and when I don't like it I will do a different job.

Daily happiness pays dividends as well.

 

[Unimog]

My mom taught me sort of like Ramit Sethi. We basically lived extremely frugally in almost every way, except we spent a bit on things that we really thought would bring us (vacation or some really cool thing). I think I've arrived at the point that knowing I have enough saved to buy a nice car is almost better than actually buying a nice car. I'll spend almost anything on a great experience, like travel with family, long before I would spend it on a bunch of stuff.

 

[UNSTUCK]

I live for today, while planning for tomorrow. I have been having a hard time predicting the future though, so I'm not sure how well that will go. If the calculators are correct, I will be comfortably retired in 20 years (age 61). That is my goal. I will be able to do it on my investments alone, and the next year I will start drawing on SS, which will be our play money. I'll be taking a loss on it by drawing early, but I'm okay with that.
In the mean time, we have a six figure boat that we love to play with. No financial advisor would ever agree with that purchase, but the fun we have had and the memories we have made as a family and with friends has been far more valuable than putting that monthly payment into savings.

One thing is for sure, if you are willing to go to work, and work hard, there is no reason why you can't have your cake now and later.

 

[BCGPER]

As someone who is living that dream, I can tell you it certainly is NOT overrated. I retired at 57, the wife was 55. We both really liked our jobs but just got sick of the traffic and smog in Salt Lake. So we quit work, sold the house, and moved to sunny Arizona. I believe the smartest investment you can ever make is the house you're in If it suits your needs, keep it and stay there. I see so many people who feel the need to change houses every few years. With the soaring housing prices in Salt Lake, we were able to sell our house there and pay for this much newer, larger, and nicer place. If you're thinking about retiring with a mortgage hanging over your head you're probably not going to have much of a retirement. Also saving for the future when you don't have a house payment becomes very simple.

We honestly started thinking about the early retirement dream in our mid 20's. We saved a lot and made some wise investments. We didn't save so much that we weren't going to enjoy ourselves either. We had all of the toys we desired at one point or the other. We did the RV thing for years, drove nice cars, boating, off roading, and had various toys. You'll probably find that as you age your choice of toys will likely change.

Now that I've done it, I wouldn't change a thing. And contrary to one persons opinion here, you can do anything at 60 that you can do at 40. The hardest part of it all has been health insurance, which we were well aware of that from the start, but it is a huge expense so plan accordingly.

 

[mesha]

My dad retired early and was very surprised at how much insurance cost. Most of the time he had no insurance and was lucky to not have any illnesses or big medical expenses.

 

[spaggyroe]

Good info and insight here guys!

A couple of questions for the sake of discussion (obviously playing devils advocate here), does building memories with your family and/or friends require spending much (if any) money? Do you think you could build stronger memories and relationships if you had more time to dedicate to your family and friends (as a result of not working so much)?