Let's Talk Traction Bars

[Herzog]

While I've got the jeep slightly tore down in the garage, I'm rethinking my rear traction bar design. So far the design I have now has worked wonders, but I'm wonding if I can improve on it.

Basically I'm looking for better adjustability and less flex restraint.

Here is a drawing of what I have come up with so far. The top one is my existing setup, the bottom one is what I have planned so far. No "major" changes, but I'm still wondering if it will work as good without the ladder peice in place and heims on both ends of the bottom arm.

What are your thoughts?

 

[BBowski82]

seems like added cost for no real benefit? or am I not seeing what you are trying to do by adding the heim joints?

 

[mbryson]

Would that let the axle 'twist' more, i.e. drop increase? That's about all I can think of.....(non-engineering mind, sorry)

 

[pokeyYJ]

If the goal is to allow twist, maybe install one of those orbital eyes where the traction bar meet the shakle. This would allow twist yet retain the added strength given by the ladder bar in the original design

 

[I Lean]

If your ladder is limiting your twist, add the heim at the top of the shackle. What you've drawn won't achieve what you're going for, and it'll make for a weaker ladder bar. (without the brace)

 

[spencurai]

here you go....

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by spencurai
here you go....

Ohhhh.,......artistic....

Originally posted by I lean
If your ladder is limiting your twist, add the heim at the top of the shackle. What you've drawn won't achieve what you're going for, and it'll make for a weaker ladder bar. (without the brace)

What time do you guys hit the shop in the morning?

 

[I Lean]

Originally posted by mbryson

What time do you guys hit the shop in the morning?

Since we're just settling into the new place, the hours aren't consistent---but we should be there by around 9:30 or 10:00, after doing the morning running-around-like-a-chicken routine.

 

[Herzog]

Originally posted by I Lean
If your ladder is limiting your twist, add the heim at the top of the shackle. What you've drawn won't achieve what you're going for, and it'll make for a weaker ladder bar. (without the brace)

That is what I wanted to hear. It really isn't limiting too badly as it is now, but another thing I want is better adjustability. I have redone this traction bar 3 times because I keep messing with my suspension back there. The lower seperate link would allow me to adjust the setup a lot easier than it is now. But if strength might be an issue, I will stick with the ladder setup.

Originally posted by mbryson
Would that let the axle 'twist' more, i.e. drop increase? That's about all I can think of.....(non-engineering mind, sorry)

Yep, but also allowing better adjustablility.

Originally posted by BBowski82
seems like added cost for no real benefit? or am I not seeing what you are trying to do by adding the heim joints?

No extra cost, I have all the materials and parts laying around just waiting to get used.

 

[Herzog]

Ok, still thinking about this.

I'll let the picture do most of the talking. This is from a strength stand point. We all agree that the ladder style is strong, but with proper geometry I think the second design can be just as strong. I may be just fooling myself here, so tell me I'm wrong if you believe so.

I'm thinking the traction bar setup won't need a center strength peice if the structure resembles a triangle. So this would allow the bottom peice of the traction-bar to be seperate from the assembly (bolted, not welded)

It makes sense in my head, but that is a different story.

FYI - my traction-bar isn't as long as the one illustrated. So ground clearance really isn't affected by lengthening the lower piece.

 

[CruiserNut]

I think that this would my stronger because if you don't have the bottom bar going almost to the end where the joint is it will put all the pressure to the middle of the top bar and bend it.

 

[I Lean]

Here's how I deal with the adjustability of the traction bars I make. The adjustable end is always on top (to avoid rock-rash), and the upper hole is slotted a bit top-to-bottom to allow for the different hole spacing that occurs.

Your thinking is right, but the mount becomes the third side of the triangle, and it's not rigid like the others. (since there's bushings at the "corners")

 

[grinch]

I can tell you one thing that dosent work is 2 heims on the the shackle. It frees up all sorts of restriction on flex but allows the shackle to walk side to side when under a load and then the axle can still wrap.....Dont ask how I know this I dont want to have to admit I found out the expensive and hard way

 

[muleskinner]

Have you tried DJ's setup? its awsome. I ran it for 2 years with 0 failure untill I sold my cruiser. It doesn't bind or restrict travell at all, with 0 axle wrap. I'm going to run it on my runner also. Its worth a look at if you haven't seen it. www.dj40.com I believe.

 

[Wanker Delux]

Originally posted by muleskinner
Have you tried DJ's setup? its awsome. I ran it for 2 years with 0 failure untill I sold my cruiser. It doesn't bind or restrict travell at all, with 0 axle wrap. I'm going to run it on my runner also. Its worth a look at if you haven't seen it. www.dj40.com I believe.

Their idea is quite interesting. As your axle moves up and own, this bar would not only reduce axel wrap completly, it even adjusts you pinion to the new heigth(if the geometry is setup very prescicly. However, if I see it right, with two bars (one on each spring) as you flex (one wheel up, the other down) the bars would be applying oppisite forces on the axel, adding frightning amounts of torq length wise on the axel and thus preventing proper flex.
If using one exactly aligned and to exact lengths, it would be a very nice setup.

 

[BBowski82]

how low does the mount on DJ's traction bar hang? it looks low on his website? just curious...

 

[EZRhino]

Hey!!!! Did you ask permission to display that photo?? That's my traction bar! Just kidding. I went with a CV driveline after the bar was made and the adjustability in the end was crucial. So was drilling two sets of holes in the axle bracket. Remember to follow the KISS rule. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). The less "links" the better. The more complicated the crap the more chances of failure.

It works!

EZ

 

[I Lean]

Originally posted by Wanker Delux


Their idea is quite interesting. As your axle moves up and own, this bar would not only reduce axel wrap completly, it even adjusts you pinion to the new heigth(if the geometry is setup very prescicly. However, if I see it right, with two bars (one on each spring) as you flex (one wheel up, the other down) the bars would be applying oppisite forces on the axel, adding frightning amounts of torq length wise on the axel and thus preventing proper flex.
If using one exactly aligned and to exact lengths, it would be a very nice setup.

The other "feature" of them, is that they always seem to hang really low, to hang up on/get bent by rocks.

 

[Greg]

Originally posted by I Lean


The other "feature" of them, is that they always seem to hang really low, to hang up on/get bent by rocks.

"Ha, ha....."

 

[sukaB]

I make a setup sim to DJ's that utilizes poly bushings TJ and jonny joint top and bent lower link ground clearance and threaded center for adjustability.
There's a couple of them in this valley!!!! No probs
What's DJ's charge?