Locker/Axle Poll

[RockMonkey]

im not locked (need an air compressor)

Silly kids these days, think'n they need an air compressor to have a locker.

 

[PierCed_3]

Although the only time I broke my axle it was not locked, I have to say that if you lift a tire the wheel in the air will spin thus making the force go to the tire without traction. If you do the same with the locked axle it will pull you through with only one tire touching producing more strain on your axleshaft.

I vote locked.

If you are bouncing around you might as well just get ready to fork out the cash to fix your axle cuz it will break. That doesn't matter if you are locked or not.

My .02$

Andrew

 

[rockdog]

Silly kids these days, think'n they need an air compressor to have a locker.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Cody]

Yes, energy cannot be lost, but it can be distributed to places where it is harmless.....like the tire in the air situation.

If your bouncing--locked or unlocked, you'll break ****.

I rallied the hell out of my d35, open diffs, 33's. I never broke it. I ripped a control arm off the frame and lots of other stuff, but never broke the d35. It wasn't for lack of effort though.

I do however break lots of d44 parts.....and it's locked. I think it's more of a gay d44 thing than a locker thing.


Cody

 

[RockMonkey]

Yes, energy cannot be lost, but it can be distributed to places where it is harmless.....like the tire in the air situation.

If your bouncing--locked or unlocked, you'll break ****.

I rallied the hell out of my d35, open diffs, 33's. I never broke it. I ripped a control arm off the frame and lots of other stuff, but never broke the d35. It wasn't for lack of effort though.

I do however break lots of d44 parts.....and it's locked. I think it's more of a gay d44 thing than a locker thing.


Cody

Do you have shocks on your front axle yet? Couse, that could have something to do with the bouncing, that could have something to do with the breaking...

 

[SUPERFLY]

Silly kids these days, think'n they need an air compressor to have a locker.

stupid arb!! stupid money guy stupid open diff stupid poll

 

[Cody]

Do you have shocks on your front axle yet? Couse, that could have something to do with the bouncing, that could have something to do with the breaking...

yes, yes, and yes

Cody

 

[81Ramchargerman]

It is ALL in how you drive it. You'll break stuff whether youre open or locked if you aren't careful.... of course what's the fun in being careful...there are too many factors that go into whether or not you'll break. I think the bigger the tire, the more of a difference the locker will make in failure. ....me thinks???

 

[N-Smooth]

I think it's more of a gay d44 thing than a locker thing.
Cody

that hurts man...
lets not say things we can't take back
hey i haven't broken yet. i toasted my t-case front output bearing... but the axles are fine. but then again i have 10 horsepower
i have been pretty rough on it too as far as wedging tires and being on 2 or 1 tires. and i spun the hell out of them on waynes world... everyone saw that
i'll probably break at ejs, thats my bet

 

[tv_larsen]

I dont think I understand what you are saying...let me see if I have this straight...so you're saying that in an open diffed rig, say its putting out 300 Ft/lbs of torque, now I lift a tire so my tire thats still on the ground is not spinning cause it all went to the outside tire but according to you that tire is only seeing 150 ft/lbs and the other 150 ft/lbs has mysteriously disappeared cause it sure as heck isn;t going to the tire on the ground??? is that what you are saying, please explain a little more...or point me to somewhere that can I say a locker distributes the torque evenly at all times...

Just because your engine is capable of delivering 300 ft-lf (for the sake of argument) to the axle, doen't mean that it always doing so. In your example, the tire in the air is spinning wildly because of the open diff. But if you measure the actual torque being deliver through both axle shafts, it would be exactly the same (no more torque than the drag from the bearings and brakes require).

In an OPEN diff, EQUAL torque is ALWAYS delivered through BOTH axle shafts, it's a fact.

A locked diff can divert ALL of the engine's torque through a single axle shaft if it's tire is the only one with traction capabable of resisting that torque. So it does not "distributes the torque evenly". All that a locked diff does, is deliver equal rotational speed to both axle shafts.

 

[N-Smooth]

In an OPEN diff, EQUAL torque is ALWAYS delivered through BOTH axle shafts, it's a fact.

so how is one not spinning? and why doesn't it even try to spin?
i'm confused

 

[Caleb]

Just because your engine is capable of delivering 300 ft-lf (for the sake of argument) to the axle, doen't mean that it always doing so. In your example, the tire in the air is spinning wildly because of the open diff. But if you measure the actual torque being deliver through both axle shafts, it would be exactly the same (no more torque than the drag from the bearings and brakes require).

In an OPEN diff, EQUAL torque is ALWAYS delivered through BOTH axle shafts, it's a fact.

A locked diff can divert ALL of the engine's torque through a single axle shaft if it's tire is the only one with traction capabable of resisting that torque. So it does not "distributes the torque evenly". All that a locked diff does, is deliver equal rotational speed to both axle shafts.

you're missing the point...I dont care if its only delivering 10 ft/lbs to teh rear axle what I am saying is if its delivering 10 ft/lbs at teh time it lifts a tire, nothing else chages except that tire came off the ground, both sides are not receiving 5 ft/lbs each...if nothing else changes the 5 ft/lbs to the tire on the ground thats not spinning has not mysteriously disapeared has it??? Its NOT a fact, show me some literature that says its a fact...then I'll believe you...until then what youa re saying makes no sense...

 

[Cody]

Yeah, you don't have as much motor as me, but more importantly you haven't had enough traction with those BALD ASS tires

It was a year before I started breaking things. Then I started trying obstacles and trails that were more difficult and becoming more confident in my driving. Once you get to that level, and you have to follow around damn tube buggies all day, you'll start to break d44's parts more often--especially now that you have some good tires.

Cody

that hurts man...
lets not say things we can't take back
hey i haven't broken yet. i toasted my t-case front output bearing... but the axles are fine. but then again i have 10 horsepower
i have been pretty rough on it too as far as wedging tires and being on 2 or 1 tires. and i spun the hell out of them on waynes world... everyone saw that
i'll probably break at ejs, thats my bet

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...In an OPEN diff, EQUAL torque is ALWAYS delivered through BOTH axle shafts, it's a fact..

So when your doing a one wheel burnout on pavement... both shafts are getting equal torque... No I could see that one would say that the shaft is imparting and equal-opposite moment on the diff, but this is not the case. The locker requires the torque to be distributed..

 

[bobdog]

Its NOT a fact, show me some literature that says its a fact...then I'll believe you...until then what youa re saying makes no sense...

I have several books Text books and others that state that a open differential always distributes torque equaly to both alxe shafts. A locker or spool does not distribute torque equally it only ensures that the axle shafts spin at the same speed. When a tire is in the air and one has traction all the torque is distributed to the one with traction if you have a locker.

 

[tv_larsen]

you're missing the point...I dont care if its only delivering 10 ft/lbs to teh rear axle what I am saying is if its delivering 10 ft/lbs at teh time it lifts a tire, nothing else chages except that tire came off the ground, both sides are not receiving 5 ft/lbs each...if nothing else changes the 5 ft/lbs to the tire on the ground thats not spinning has not mysteriously disapeared has it??? Its NOT a fact, show me some literature that says its a fact...then I'll believe you...until then what youa re saying makes no sense...

You are assuming that a given amount of torque can be delivered to an axle, regardless of it's traction condition. You cannot have torque delivered through an axle w/o an opposing force (ie: traction or component drag).

Lats assume we are taking about a 2wd for simplicity, and a steady load state (no momemtum or interial loading).

Say you have an engine that can produce 100 ft-lb of torque at 1000 rpm. You do realize that just because you are spinning this engine at 1000 rpm doesn't not mean it's producing 100 ft-lb's of torque. Let's say this engine is running steady at 1000 rpm, it will produce exactly the amount of torque needed to match the load placed on it. (This load comes from internal friction, parasitc power loss, and the counter torque generated from the force at the tire tread required to move the vehicle). If you remove the engine's load, but maintain the engine's speed, the torque output from the engine will drop to match it's new, reduced load.

You cannot deliver torque to an axle with zero traction (assuming brakes and bearings have no drag). This goes back to the laws of physics. 1- "An object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by an outside force" (or something like that). If you assume the brake bearing drag is negligible, and have an axle shaft spinning, zero torque input is needed for it to maintain that speed. 2-"Energy cannot be created or destroyed". If you have this spinning axle shaft with zero rotating resistance, the only way to add more "power" to it is to speed it up, because torque cannot increase. (HP = Torque * rpm / 5252)

BTW, torque does not get divided the way you're implying. If the turning pinion gear creates 10 ft-lbs of torque in the ring gear, you will get (in an open diff) 10 ft-lbs of torque into both axle shafts (not 5 into each). This can only happen if there is enough load on the tire or axle shaft to counter act the 10 ft-lbs delivered to the ring gear. It's called equal, and opposite forces. Obviously both tires must have traction in this case.

If this were a locked diff, the torque delivered to both axles it depends. If both tires have equal traction, the axle shafts will both be transmitting 10 ft-lbs of torque. However if one tire is in the air, it's axle is transmitting no torque, and the other axle shaft is transmitting the full 10 ft-lbs.

Open diffs distribut equal torque.
Locked diffs distribute equal rotational speed.

It's a simple concept.

 

[N-Smooth]

Yeah, you don't have as much motor as me, but more importantly you haven't had enough traction with those BALD ASS tires

It was a year before I started breaking things. Then I started trying obstacles and trails that were more difficult and becoming more confident in my driving. Once you get to that level, and you have to follow around damn tube buggies all day, you'll start to break d44's parts more often--especially now that you have some good tires.

Cody

traction dept should be good now
i am confident in my driving and i will glad give things a shot, but i know when to back down, usually.
i wish i had friends with buggies cause then i would build one. none of my friends even wheel, they are all girls

 

[tv_larsen]

So when your doing a one wheel burnout on pavement... both shafts are getting equal torque... No I could see that one would say that the shaft is imparting and equal-opposite moment on the diff, but this is not the case. The locker requires the torque to be distributed..

Ok, lets assume that you have a steady state (constant rpm) one tire fryer.

To break a tire free, the torque delivered to a tire must overcome it traction force. The traction force of each tire depends on the weight it's supporting, and the static friction coefficient of the tire to the ground. So the torque required to free a tire = tire radius * weight on the tire * static coefficient of frition.

Obviuosly the torque required to free the tires won't be the same from left to right because of differences of the ground they are on, and the weight supported is probably different. So an open diff delivering exactly the same torque to both axle shafts will usually overcome the traction of one tire before the other (there's also a momentum effect from an accelerating engine that tends to counter rotate the rear axle and plant the left tire harder than the right, so usually the right tire will break free first).

Now, Kurt, you know that the static coeffiecient of friction is higher than a dynamic coeffiecient of friction. So once that tire breaks free, the torque delivered through that axle goes down, equal torque is still delivered to both axle shafts, but the one that didn't spin is now recieving less torque than before. So unless traction changes, that tire won't start spinning.

If this axle were locked, both tires would spin (given enough input torque), but one tire will still have a slightly different amount of traction. So the tire with the most traction will recieve more torque than the tire with less traction.

Open diffs ensure equal torque at the cost of equal rotational speed.
Locked diffs ensure equal rotational speed at the cost of equal torque.

 

[mbryson]

............ Text books ............

And those are ALWAYS accurate
I had a few professors that were 'published'......

 

[BCGPER]

Please god, let this stupid thread die......

And those are ALWAYS accurate
I had a few professors that were 'published'......