Locker help snap an axle?

[cuban b]

I wheeled an amc 20 hard with no breakage while it was open. I locked it up, went wheeling for 20 minutes, broke my axle, sold my locker and bought dana 44's.

I personally witnessed the same result with a dana 35, the only difference was that it was replaced with a ford 8.8.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

..It's nothing personal, just an opposing point of view. I knew this response was coming from one of the "few" and I told myself I wouldn't respond, but hey it's all good.

Cry me a river.... prove your point and I will back down

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I wheeled an amc 20 hard with no breakage while it was open. I locked it up, went wheeling for 20 minutes, broke my axle, sold my locker and bought dana 44's.

I personally witnessed the same result with a dana 35, the only difference was that it was replaced with a ford 8.8.

Noooooooo ?

Case #4 & #5

 

[bobdog]

Then prove me wrong!

1. How many people have broken an axle in an OPEN rig...

2. How many people have broken an axle in a Locked rig...

:

I broke two in an open rig.

I have never broken a shaft since I have been locked up.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I broke two in an open rig.

I have never broken a shaft since I have been locked up.

You don't count... You just sit on the internet all day and be that "negative person" everyone talks about...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

POLL

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=18277

 

[MSS]

Not trying to sound like a lawyer, but I am using ENGINEERING terms... I spent last week torsion testing various specimens, both on the University of Utah's 50 Kip Torsion tester and in a Cosmos/SolidWorks (FEA - Finite Element Analysis)... I then had to write a conclusive memorandum regarding the aspects of torsion on axle like test

What does that even have to do with this question??? Sure those are really cool things to put on your resume when you try to get a job, but you didn't answer anything. Did you do any kind of comparitive analysis of impact loading versus static loading for the specimens.... Just trying to answer the question of whether a spinning tire hitting a rock is more damaging than a tire crawling out of a hole. I just can't see the answer to that question with the fact that your have done torsion tests... fancy.

So what you did find with you tests is that if you twist them hard enough they will break... It doesn't take an engineer to tell you that.

This is a difficult question to answer and there are several factors involved; such as torsion applied to the shaft, driving style, driving environment, etc. etc.

Personally, while I have never broken an axle 'shaft', I did scatter my dana 35 while it was open. I managed to split my carrier in half which destroyed everything but the shafts. Since then, I have installed a full detroit and not had any problems (~2 years). So, in my case, the possiblity of breaking an 'axle' (not shaft) has gone down because I took out the weak link. And to me.... it is a lot easier to replace a shaft out on the trail than it is to replace the carrier, ring and pinion, and housing. And by the way, shafts are a lot cheaper than the rest.

So... you like kicking out cool engineering terms in technical memorandums..... fancy.... get used to it, that is basically the life of an engineer (BTW I am ewanders bro-in-law)

 

[ewander]

Alright, you win, I just can't handle the pressure. Hey, I wish I was into creative writing. I'm a soldier and that is it. And hey, I do live my life, not through my bro-in-law and I graduated from school some time ago. It seemed like I knew a lot more when I was in college than I do now.....maybe I just clued in that I don't know everything. That's another reason why I enjoy posting on this board, because there are so many that DO KNOW EVERYTHING.

This is my last word on this subject.

In over 10 years of four wheeling I have only witnessed 1 possibly 2 rear axles break (several front axles). They were both locked up. An unlocked rig would have never gotten to these obstacles, as most people with open differentials don't make it to the harder obstacles...... One was a Dana 60 and the other was a Dana 35c. All I am trying to say here is that driving style and the terrain you travel on has a huge impact on breaking an axle. It is a variable that must be put in the equation at some point. It is relevant and factual.

I'm going to go get a book or two on creative writing.... I better do something, as I don't know crap about wheeling and I'm probably not that good of a soldier.

 

[Caleb]

that statement is moronic....

raise your hand if you have broken an axle on a non locked d-35....give me a break.

YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AXLE BREAKAGE EASIER!! You put more stress and strain on axle components when you lock things up. Listen to cruiseroutfitters...he is our resident engineering student.

not to mention that as soon as you lock the axle it becomes a lot less tolerant of any kind of housing tweaking and such. Which the 35 is notorious for having a very weak thin housing.

 

[Caleb]

What does that even have to do with this question??? Sure those are really cool things to put on your resume when you try to get a job, but you didn't answer anything. Did you do any kind of comparitive analysis of impact loading versus static loading for the specimens.... Just trying to answer the question of whether a spinning tire hitting a rock is more damaging than a tire crawling out of a hole. I just can't see the answer to that question with the fact that your have done torsion tests... fancy.

So what you did find with you tests is that if you twist them hard enough they will break... It doesn't take an engineer to tell you that.

Well, by your own words if you twist them enough you will break them. Having no slip in the carrier is a whole lot more likely to twist them than an open carrier that allows differentiation. Not to mention one thing that has kinda been left out of this discussion, the fact that a locker will fatigue the shaft with just everyday driving, anytime you are taking a corner and it locks up, anytime a tire slips and it locks up, etc you are putting more stress on the axle that it didn;t have with an open diff. Plain and simple, yes a locker will elad to more breakage, on ANY axle but the 35 is going to be a whole lot more prone to these breaks because it is weak to begin with.

 

[spencurai]

this thread should have ended after post 2...I dont think shawn could have put it more clearly.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...So what you did find with you tests is that if you twist them hard enough they will break... It doesn't take an engineer to tell you that. ...

It doesn't take an engineer to realize that both axles in a OPEN diff don't TWIST, therefore based on probability alone, the Locked axle will "twist" the shafts more...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

What does that even have to do with this question??? ...

Hmmm... back to your books...

Lets say you model the same axle under two situations in your favorite FEA software package...

Both tests have ONE FREE tire (such as spinning in mid) and ONE FIXED tire (such as bound in an undercut rock)...

Now you apply an equal torque input to the OPEN diff'd sample... hmmm, free tire continues to spin as ALL torque is transfered to the path of least resistance... Now apply the input torque to a LOCKED diff, the torque is forced to distribute itself in both directions, the FIXED end is forced to either spin or break... Your software will prove this simple concept.

I agree there are a million variables that go into this, but the general basis is true, locker break axles...

 

[Brett]

Well, by your own words if you twist them enough you will break them. Having no slip in the carrier is a whole lot more likely to twist them than an open carrier that allows differentiation. Not to mention one thing that has kinda been left out of this discussion, the fact that a locker will fatigue the shaft with just everyday driving, anytime you are taking a corner and it locks up, anytime a tire slips and it locks up, etc you are putting more stress on the axle that it didn;t have with an open diff. Plain and simple, yes a locker will elad to more breakage, on ANY axle but the 35 is going to be a whole lot more prone to these breaks because it is weak to begin with.

Yep, the only time that I have broken a shaft was actually coming out of a friends driveway and turning onto the street. Thought my Detroit had just made a nice pop noise (as they do) but I snapped the right rear shaft out by the wheel (crappy splined, pressed on, welded piece of junk out there.) Daily driving definately will effect the life on your shafts. I always thought it was cool to bark tires till that happened. Good thing my brake drum somehow held the tire on till I got home.

 

[Shawn]

You don't count... You just sit on the internet all day and be that "negative person" everyone talks about...

bahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

I can't believe this thread has gone this far, one of the weakest OME axles is being disputed on it's strength.


you guy'd must be board....

 

[Brett]

bahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

I can't believe this thread has gone this far, one of the weakest OME axles is being disputed on it's strength.

What are you talking about? My Dana 35 is weak????

 

[Shawn]

What are you talking about? My Dana 35 is weak????

no, it's fine for your web wheeling..........

 

[chevtech]

Just to be difficult, I'm going to say given equal obstacles that both a locked and open diff have to go through, with the obstacle being just out of the open diffs grasp to conquer without either bouncing, wheel speed, or momentum that the locked diff will break less shafts than the open diff. However, a poor driver that doesn't recognize what an undercut ledge can do to a weak shaft with lockers or a driver who now tries harder obstacles due to the addition of a locker will break shafts. So IMO both cruiseroutfit and ewander are both right. However in the stricktest sense I think Ewander is right given a cautious driver who knows the limitations of his set-up and does not try harder obstacles just because he has a locker. With a competent driver you will be able to conquer obstacles on the limits of an open diffs capability with less chance of failure in a locked diff versus open, assuming a capable driver. I have seen them in the past though they are rare (competent drivers who know the limitations of their set-up) and have watched them *****-foot their way up incredible obstacles. Problem is everybody has a lead foot these days......



Let the war continue.

 

[Shawn]

Let the war continue.

why.........?

I don't see the point.

 

[Sterno]

Cruiser, grow up. I love your personal insults towards people that you have never met, do you feel better now? Your behavior is very reminiscent of my 3 year old. This is worth freaking out over? How about, "Mommy, sissy took my sippy cup!" Grow a thicker skin bud.
Ewander simply stated that if a person chose to put a locker in their Dana 35 that they could go places that they wouldn't have been able to go to otherwise. He then followed that up by stating that he would recommend that a person thinking of investing in a locker save themselves a step and invest in a new axle as well. As he stated, he never broke an axle shaft, why should he freak out over something that his driving skills have prevented him from experiencing?
I had a Dana 35 in my Cherokee and I have a Dana 35 in my Wrangler, guess what? I have never broken an axle shaft in either of those vehicles. I believe that your attitude would be better served, Cruiser, if you spent less time nit picking others posts and more time improving your driving skills. I fully expect you to continue your little crusade here and shout me down. Good luck in proving how much more intelligent you are than me, but I know who the better driver is.
Oh yeah, I loved the poll, do you honestly feel that you are better as a person because of it? Did it actually add anything of substance to the board? I fully realize that my post adds nothing whatsoever to this board, and that I am definately biased on this subject. I also know that Ewander is too good a guy to stoop to your level of behavior. I am not the same type of guy that Ewander is, and you better believe that I will stoop to your level.