Moab heads up

[Tacoma]

Is your lamb ass soft and woolly?

 

[offroaddave]

Wow. The " E " key aint even close to the " b " key,
So my lamb(e) ass is either soft and/or woolly , Or your friend Brett is using your user name to ***** about people (ME) who can't spell.



Anywho, my sig line still makes me laugh

 

[Tacoma]

Hey, I was just asking.

The farther the keys are apart, the more magnificent the misspelling. I don't really count that as a bad thing.

 

[rollover]

My 2Cents but not sure its worth that!

http://www.oyez.org/cases/1950-1959/1958/1958_94/
__________________

The above link by Spork seems to backup what I've been told over and over talking to many Highway Patrol officers about out of state registered vehicles.

Like small trailers in Idaho any and all personal trailers must be registered. Most states don't require it unless commercial or over x amount of weight. That would make all people register their small trailer just to cross Idaho to go to Yellowstone National Park. IHP says they can't enforce it upon those not registered with Idaho tags.

How can Utah enforce all small laws upon all out of state drivers point blank? Utah can't expect all drivers to know all Utah laws and codes. Most Utah drivers don't even know them. Standard basics like speed limits, using turn signal, light in-op, stop sign... aren't the ones in question for the out of state drivers. Laws like mud flaps, height, beadlocks........ Thats whats questionable.

I've always understood that while traveling across the nation your car/truck is only required to meet (Federal requirements for motor vehicles of your year & your State of registration requirements). How can one be expected to know all 50 states laws? Some states don't even have a State Inspection Law or require you to have Insurance no fault. I Know that if you stay in a state for longer than 3 - 6 months you should register your car/truck in that state. At that time you are required to meet all the little laws for that State. Commercial vehicles fall under their own laws (standard laws for all 50 states) but thats commercial.
Utahan's are expected to know their own laws not out of state drivers.

I'm I wrong?

 

[Bart]

How can Utah enforce all small laws upon all out of state drivers point blank? Utah can't expect all drivers to know all Utah laws and codes. Most Utah drivers don't even know them. Standard basics like speed limits, using turn signal, light in-op, stop sign... aren't the ones in question for the out of state drivers. Laws like mud flaps, height, beadlocks........ Thats whats questionable.

I've always understood that while traveling across the nation your car/truck is only required to meet (Federal requirements for motor vehicles of your year & your State of registration requirements). How can one be expected to know all 50 states laws? Some states don't even have a State Inspection Law or require you to have Insurance no fault. I Know that if you stay in a state for longer than 3 - 6 months you should register your car/truck in that state. At that time you are required to meet all the little laws for that State. Commercial vehicles fall under their own laws (standard laws for all 50 states) but thats commercial.
Utahan's are expected to know their own laws not out of state drivers.

I'm I wrong?

I'm not saying your wrong, but I'll give you an expample of how other states enforce their laws.

California has strict requirement on the length of a vehicle pulling a trailer. It is well known in the RV world because CA strictly enforces it. If you are over by a foot you could get a ticket. It doesn't matter if the length you have is legal in any other state.

It's the same for Utah. If they start enforcing some laws (like lift laws) it will become known, and yes, they can legally enforce it on out of state vehicles. Challanges can be made, but I'd bet it can be upheld in a court of law.

 

[sLOWERTHANU]

Sorry, as a wheeler and an LEO I feel the need to put my two cents in here.

Do I agree with the laws? Hell no, I wish I could comfortably drive my rig on the street.

Do they exist? Yes, so does officer discretion.

When you are GRANTED a UT drivers license, you are in essence making a contract stating you have knowledge of the laws that exist. YOU alone are responsible for obtaining the knowledge. Not me.

The public has access online and by mail to said laws. By entering our state you take that responsibility. Go ahead and get your lawyer, I cite as dictated by criminal and traffic code, if I am within those boundaries, it becomes the states/counties/cities job to prove they are right.

Common courtesy would mean that I would pull an out of state vehicle over and tell them what laws they are breaking, I don't have to but I usually do. If you break a Utah law, you are liable.

On that note, I have only ever pulled over large trucks when fishing for DUI's and warrants. I have not issued fender flair, Mudflap or lift citations. That would be silly considering the type of hobby I am involved in.

You can't claim ignorance to most laws. It is illegal to speed, illegal to drink and drive, illegal to not signal, illegal to rape and pillage, illegal to murder and illegal to litter. These are common sense laws that have existed for a long time.

MY suggestion, I trailer my rig around that time of year. When I am at my folks place in Moab in the off season I drive it on occasion.

Generally the person you are dealing with is acting on orders from a higher authority. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Steve]

Sorry, as a wheeler and an LEO I feel the need to put my two cents in here.

The public has access online and by mail to said laws. By entering our state you take that responsibility. Go ahead and get your lawyer, I cite as dictated by criminal and traffic code, if I am within those boundaries, it becomes the states/counties/cities job to prove they are right.

You can't claim ignorance to most laws. It is illegal to speed, illegal to drink and drive, illegal to not signal, illegal to rape and pillage, illegal to murder and illegal to litter. These are common sense laws that have existed for a long time.

You're talking apples and oranges here. Speeding, DWI, not signalling, rape, murder, littering, etc., etc., etc. are actions. Actions are clearly illegal and are subject to anyone in that jurisdiction; those apply to people. Mudflaps, lift laws, bumper height, type of insurance, tires outside of fenders, etc., etc., etc. are not actions, they apply to vehicles and their construction.

If I'm driving cross country, I am clearly responsible to follow the laws that govern my actions, no matter where I am. Do I have to stop at each state line and alter my vehicle, sometimes at great expense, to meet that state's vehicle laws when my vehicle isn't registered there? No, I'm not. I don't have a UT driver's license, I don't have UT plates on my rig and I don't have UT insurance. My rig is completely 100% street legal, and no state can make me alter its construction to simply drive through their state. Yeah, I've discussed this with my lawyer, and I will have fun in court if I ever get such a ticket. Since my rig is not that extreme (except for lack of fugly mudflaps) I probably won't get one, but I'm ready for it.

If you want to take it to the extreme, there are two different types of auto insurance; one or the other is required by each state's law. Does anyone seriously think you have to change your auto insurance to drive through a state that has different requirements? Clearly, no you don't.

And BTW, beadlocks are not illegal, even in UT. I'd love for someone in UT to show me the state law saying beadlocks are illegal.

 

[SAMI]

we got pulled over in rob's 4runner knowing we were missing a front plate, mud flaps, mirrors, and tires sticking out abit from the wheel wells.... what did he get us on??? ..... no front shock, and no driver mirror... ??? what the hell? he said straight up that he didn't care about anything else. he gave just a written warning, and 10 minutes later we were rolling down PSH, so it we forgot about it pretty quick..

-Jason

 

[Houndoc]

My rig is completely 100% street legal, and no state can make me alter its construction to simply drive through their state. Yeah, I've discussed this with my lawyer, and I will have fun in court if I ever get such a ticket. Since my rig is not that extreme (except for lack of fugly mudflaps) I probably won't get one, but I'm ready for it.

Sounds like an open invitation to our cop members.....:greg:

In general, this thread is a pointless rehash of much of issues that are ranted about far too frequently (except I agree the issue of enforcement on out of state vehicles is an interesting one.)

Yes you risk getting a ticket if you are not legal, even for "little" violations like mud flaps. Nothing new there.

And I find it odd that since this board often (and correctly) complains about drunked idiots that ruin EJS and the poor public image that it gives the sport, that they also complain about crackdown and cops.

Most often, DUI and other serious offenses are caught by pulling over a vehicle for minor problems (fender flares etc). The weaving, visible dangeour drunk is the exception not the rule.

IMO, if we want to clean up the image of the sport and EJS, some law enforcement is a good thing.

 

[Steve]

Sounds like an open invitation to our cop members.....:greg:

I'm not volunteering as it would still cost me much more to make it go away than to simply pay it, which is really the big problem.

IMO, if we want to clean up the image of the sport and EJS, some law enforcement is a good thing.

And I agree with that 100%. IMO they should, however, be actively looking for and enforcing DWI laws, speeding, careless/reckless driving, and having current insurance rather than mudflaps, wide tires, etc. The former are truly public safety issues, the latter simply generate revenue.

I asked my lawyer for a brief explanation over lunch. Here's essentially what he told me. There is no specific law that can be cited that specifically says that one state can't enforce its laws on out-of-state vehicles. He said that the case must be made, after a ticket is issued, based on interfering with interstate commerce, and that there is plenty of case law to be cited on that subject. He explained that vehicle equipment/construction/inspection laws in a state are applicable to vehicles registered in that state, not vehicles registered in other states where there are different laws. He said the operation of vehicles is different, in that those things, e.g. seat belt laws, speeding, etc. can be enforced on everyone.

He did say that, unfortunately, if you get a ticket in UT for a law that doesn't apply where your vehicle is registered you must show up in court and make a case that it's an invalid ticket. He said that while that would not be hard for an attorney to do, it would without a doubt cost much more than mailing a check to pay the fine. So, his conclusion is that while most LEO's probably think their vehicle laws apply to anything in the state they are wrong, but many have the "I'll give a ticket and let the courts sort it out" attitude, and that in the end almost everyone mails a check for the fine rather than fighting it. In the end it does nothing for public safety but everything for the state's coffers.

 

[Bart]

And BTW, beadlocks are not illegal, even in UT. I'd love for someone in UT to show me the state law saying beadlocks are illegal.

Um, look up where it says that the wheels have to be DOT approved. I believe there is only one DOT approved beadlock made. Most wheel companies don't want to deal with the DOT paperwork, thus leaving them as is, and not DOT approved.

Most town police and marshals could care less, it's the Highway Patrol that frown on them mostly.

 

[SAMI]

i thought for sure the UHP that pulled us over would ticket us for the beadlocks... which in my experience they always have... but this time he didn't seem to care. wierd... got lucky i guess

-Jason

 

[Steve]

Um, look up where it says that the wheels have to be DOT approved. I believe there is only one DOT approved beadlock made. Most wheel companies don't want to deal with the DOT paperwork, thus leaving them as is, and not DOT approved.

Most town police and marshals could care less, it's the Highway Patrol that frown on them mostly.

DOT approval is NOT a law under which you can be ticketed or fined; it's a standard that manufacturers can choose (or not) to certify their wheels (and lots of other parts) to. Show me the UT law (or any other state for that matter) saying that your wheels must be DOT approved. I'm betting there is no such law.

Look guys, I'm not being an ass here. There just seems to be so much stuff, like the "beadlocks are illegal" argument, that too many people believe simply because it has been repeated so many times. If there's not a UT law stating that wheels must be DOT approved, or even more specifically stating that beadlock wheels are illegal, then they're legal.

Many beadlock wheels are made (mine included) by taking a DOT approved wheel, machining the outer lip off, and welding on the lock ring. They still have "DOT" stamped on them.

 

[scoutabout]

he gave just a written warning, and 10 minutes later we were rolling down PSH, so it we forgot about it pretty quick..

 

[Spork]

And BTW, beadlocks are not illegal, even in UT. I'd love for someone in UT to show me the state law saying beadlocks are illegal.

http://safetyinspections.utah.gov/pdf/2007 SI PLT Manual.pdf
section 2 (Tires and wheels) states:
Reject when beadlock wheels are installed.

 

[Steve]

http://safetyinspections.utah.gov/pdf/2007 SI PLT Manual.pdf
section 2 (Tires and wheels) states:
Reject when beadlock wheels are installed.

Ah, so it's an interpretation, not a specific law, thanks. I'm surprised someone hasn't challenged it in court, especially since it doesn't even make provision for "DOT approved" beadlocks being legal. What state law do they cite when they ticket you for them?

It would make a great test case for an out-of-state vehicle. Since the UT inspection doesn't apply to them, they can't be "rejected" for having them. So, since there's no specific law against them, and it's only an interpretation for the safety inspection, it only applies to in-state vehicles, not out-of-state vehicles.

You guys do have some strange vehlcle requirements you have to abide by. Lost of eastern states have strange vehicle laws, but not many western states.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I've argued the interpretation versus law for years... and too boot I've offered $20 for a copy of an actual ticket for beadlocks countless times... I've never paid anyone

I've posted all of the relevent laws, etc numerous times here on RME, the long and short is this... Utah laws do not say they are illegal, though they do grant the UHP the right to enforce the motor vehicle code. So you can get a ticket, but it wouldn't be much of a case... then again they can ticket you for having a pink car too... but at the end of the day they have to have a law to back it up with

 

[Steve]

I've argued the interpretation versus law for years... and too boot I've offered $20 for a copy of an actual ticket for beadlocks countless times... I've never paid anyone

I've posted all of the relevent laws, etc numerous times here on RME, the long and short is this... Utah laws do not say they are illegal, though they do grant the UHP the right to enforce the motor vehicle code. So you can get a ticket, but it wouldn't be much of a case... then again they can ticket you for having a pink car too... but at the end of the day they have to have a law to back it up with

Thanks Kurt, a voice of reason response. I know Scott (who owns Rockstomper) has had a standing offer on PBB for several years to pay anyone several hundred $ for showing him a law making beadlocks illegal in any of the 50 states. Nobody has claimed that yet either.

And yeah, LEO's can write tickets for just about anything, whether it's technically correct or not. It's the courts that get to sort 'em out which, unfortunately, doesn't happen often because most people pay the fine instead of doing the research and spending the time and $$$ necessary to fight it.

 

[Tacoma]

Silence gives consent.

 

[timpanogos]

I'm with Kurt. anyone driving a pink car needs to be ticketed!