More SUWA press---

[mbryson]

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2859476

I wonder how scientific of a poll that even was?

 

[TK1]

Not very, WOW a whole 478 people were polled , woopde freakin do. Any meaningful poll would be conducted by an impartial organization throughout the entire state.

 

[mbryson]

Not very, WOW a whole 478 people were polled , woopde freakin do. Any meaningful poll would be conducted by an impartial organization throughout the entire state.

.......but it's 'news' and people will believe it.

 

[TK1]

.......but it's 'news' and people will believe it.

That's no joke. If more people were smarter and less "sheep like", SUWA would have soooooo much less influence.

FWIW I have a relative who works for the Forest Service and he is very impressed with the efforts made by offroad enthusiasts to help with trails, clean ups, etc.... I was talking to him at my cousins wedding last week and he had nothing but good things to say. There are some people that can still think for themselves.

 

[WayneXJ]

I was listening to John Wright this morning and he was taking calls about that article. I don't think I heard a single call complaining about OHV's, only that we need more enforcement of laws.

 

[ace]

That reminds me of the "truth" billboard going into Salt Lake from Davis County. It states that 80% of all Utahns oppose smoking in clubs. If they were telling the "truth," these same 80% of all Utahns would prefer to close the clubs all together and force the rest of to Sunday School instead. Why should we be dictated to by an uninterested minority?

 

[RedRockUT]

I guess thats why we have guys like Kurt to stand by our side. As long as we stay on the trails, keep it clean, and follow the rules. He'll keep the trails open for us

 

[Rick B]

Personally I would agree with most of that polls data. But unfortunately the data is being used in a skewed manner to say something entirely different than what the questions were about. Also, the questions were worded in such a way to make the results appear different from what people are really saying. But that's what always happens with a poll.

 

[DrMoab]

That reminds me of the "truth" billboard going into Salt Lake from Davis County. It states that 80% of all Utahns oppose smoking in clubs. If they were telling the "truth," these same 80% of all Utahns would prefer to close the clubs all together and force the rest of to Sunday School instead. Why should we be dictated to by an uninterested minority?

Its funny you say that...My wife and I were talking about it. I asked her if the same results would be there if they ONLY asked people who frequented bars and clubs.

As for the SUWA BS...I think we should get our own pollsters out there...I am so sick of seeing everybody complain about the tactics they pull and yet to date I have not seen a single organizing group...I.E USA-ALL, U4, BlueRibbon get together their own people to fight fire with fire...Its the only way in this stupid F'ed up world we live in to get anything done.

 

[Bone Down]

I just do not know what to say about this other than we need to some how or another let this stinking reporters know that we are performing trail clean ups and invite them to come along for a ride or something to reflect some positive press to support our sport.

SUWA and other orginizations of the sort are getting way WAY to much press and it is reflecting badly on all motorized sports.

I swear these people would rather we all walk or bike every where and not enjoy life the way we chose to do so.

And as far as this poll how, when, and where was it conducted? by whom? seems a LITTLE skewed imo.

Oh and I am getting just a little bit tired of the one sidedness that the media reflects on it now, is the news really news any more? or is it all in the name of ratings and entertainment value?

Any of you getting a little tired of the updates on the BREAKING NEWS every ten minutes when the update is really them re hashing the same thing over and over again for half a day?

Sorry to rant, but this is getting under my skin.

 

[UtahFire]

I just got off the phone with the project manager at Dan Jones & Assoc who worked on the poll with SUWA. He said the poll questions were designed by SUWA and they owned all the rights to the poll. If you read the questions, you can see they are crafted to get just the response they were looking for.

http://www.suwa.org/entry.php?entry_id=692

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I think we should get our own pollsters out there...I am so sick of seeing everybody complain about the tactics they pull and yet to date I have not seen a single organizing group...I.E USA-ALL, U4, BlueRibbon get together their own people to fight fire with fire...Its the only way in this stupid F'ed up world we live in to get anything done.

It all comes down to time and money...

Think of it this way... SUWA has thousands of members, all over the world. The U4WDA has ~300. SUWA members send a yearly dues check and excess donation, regardless of wether they are even in Utah that year... U4WDA has to pratically beg members to join.

We would love to do a poll, we would love to write a trail book (maps, education, history, ethics). We would love to lobby lawmakers as SUWA does...

BUT we don't have the budget as we don't have supportive enthusiasts...

Think about that number... 300 members in a state of THOUSANDS of 4x4 users. SUWA can go to a lawmaker and say "hey we represent XXX thousand members", however U4WDA can hopefully find someone to skip work/school and say "we represent ~200-300 members".... the numbers alone kill us.

SUWA has a yearly budget in the multi-millions with at least 20 full-time staffers. U4WDA has a yearly budget of ~10k and ZERO paid staff (all 100% volunteer). Usa-All is in the same boat, they have one full-time guy (Mike Swenson) and a part-time secretary... He is swamped just trying to keep up with the issues and make some public responses.

Now, what can you do to help?

#1 Get all your 4x4 freinds (and of course yourself) to join U4WDA, Usa-All, BRC, TL, and a LOCAL club. A $100 worth of yearly dues is NOTHING compared to all the FREE recreating you do on public land that others want CLOSED. We spend $100 on gas on a single wheeling trip, JOIN!!!

#2 Get involved, how many of you have been to a BLM planning meeting? A government sponsored cleanup? How about a land-use rally? How about offer your time and services to the U4WDA or Usa-All (both are in dire need of manpower).

#3 Help educate others. Carry U4WDA & Usa-All info in all your rigs, your tow rig, etc. When you run into another Jeeper at the gas station, grocery store or Walmart, give him the info and your testimony that they NEED to join.

Then, we can do our own poll, take the results to capitol hill and say "Hey 20,000 Utahs (the approx. number of registered ATV's alone ) want MORE trails and MORE access to public lands"... "We want trails that were illegally shut down re-opened"... "NOW"

So, get involved!!!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...SUWA and other orginizations of the sort are getting way WAY to much press and it is reflecting badly on all motorized sports....

Too much agreed! But, Mike Swenson (Usa-All), Todd Adams (U4WDA) and Stephen Neilson (U4WDA) among dozens of others have really been hitting it home in the Editorial section of the newspaper lately.

And on the ground we are making alot of progress too. AF Canyon, Uintas, Moab... Things are getting done and the tide is starting to turn, but it could go either direction unless people get INVOLVED (not angry at articles online )

Apathy is our #1 problem...

 

[DrMoab]

Apathy is our #1 problem...

Ever wonder why this is? Sure the SUWA guys are a bunch of dedicated people who really belive in their cause(yeah right)

I know however that everytime I get with any bunch of wheelers they are just as dedicated as the other side. I hear very very passionate words come from people...Why doesn't this carry over into the political side of things?

SUWA members make us out to be a bunch of lazy land destroyers. Maybe they just have the lazy part right.

 

[Houndoc]

I think an important point is being missed here.

That being the preception that ORV use creates problems.

And lets be honest with ourselves- too often it does. Who else has seen or read complaints on this board about illegal bipasses, litter, vehicles (ATVs mostly) still using closed trails.....I could go on.

Does this mean that most Utahns are opposed to ORV use? The poll does not say that.

The message we need to take to heart is that as a group (and I will admit this is probably preaching to the choir on RME) need to act responsibly and follow the laws.

 

[UtahFire]

I think an important point is being missed here.

That being the preception that ORV use creates problems.

I agree with Houndoc. There are OHV users who make it easy for groups like SUWA to make the whole OHV community look bad. The problem I have with SUWA (and others) is that their solution is to shut areas down to everyone.

 

[mbryson]

I agree with Houndoc. There are OHV users who make it easy for groups like SUWA to make the whole OHV community look bad. The problem I have with SUWA (and others) is that their solution is to shut areas down to everyone.

I'd be willing to bet that is a VERY small percentage--less than 5%-- and I don't think we'll get a lot of disagreement there. The real issue is how do we educate these people that they are screwing it up for the rest of us, and what anyone could do about it to help them understand that they need to change their behavior?


SUWA is just letting their skewed facts speak in the media. That has and will continue to change peoples perceptions until they speak the 'truth' (as perceived by voters and legislators). If people hear something enough times, we tend to believe it as truth especially when it changes very slightly over time.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...The message we need to take to heart is that as a group (and I will admit this is probably preaching to the choir on RME) need to act responsibly and follow the laws.

Unfortunetly, that is NOT enough. Sure being passive and follwing the laws is the responsible thing to do. But SUWA is going to continue to be proactive... They WILL NOT stop until every road (and I say road is in it was created for vehicles)... is completely closed to motorized access. And groups like them have been extremely sucsessful in our own backyard (Big, Little, and Millcreek Canyons).

We need to be PROACTIVE, moreso then our opponent... But that means YOU (you as in anyone reading this) need to get involved NOW!!! Join clubs/associations, help out on a FS/BLM service project, let them know you care and more important.. that YOU will be fighting and kicking ANY trail closures!!!

 

[Houndoc]

I agree that SUWA is a dangerous group. My point was the poll answers themselves. They do not say that Utahns are anti-ORV (although the media and SUWA may make it seem that way.)

We can help with the public opinion via our actions and, yes we do need to proactively deal with both the actions of the bad apples and to imporve public opinion.

 

[UtahFire]

I talked to the Dan Jones "project leader" on this SUWA poll. He was very informative. It was just as I suspected. SUWA designed the poll and owns all rights to it. A careful examination of the questions shows they were designed to get the response they wanted. Most of the questions were worded in such a way that most people would agree with them. For example, most people are going to agree that open space is important and that "some" areas need to be protected. I agree with that. However, there were conveniently no questions about how large an area should be "protected". SUWA wants over 9 million acres of Utah's most prime land designated as wilderness. There were no questions like "would you support restricting 9 million acres of Utah's most beautiful backcountry to all but hikers and horses (no mountain bikes)"? Or "do you think historically popular OHV areas should be closed even if it meant many rural businesses would have to close and people would be out of work?" Here is one for you; "Do you agree that long time existing trails and roads should be closed even though the most hardy hiker would physically not be able to access many areas?" And my favorite; "Do you support higher taxes to make up for the lost revenue which is currently being paid by OHV registration and OHV property taxes?"

The biggest problem with this poll is the conclusions that were made. SUWA thinks that this poll shows that large areas should be closed to all but hikers and horse back riders. Most OHV users see this as a problem of OHV community education, and improved public land management.

Some of the other problems with this "poll" are:

-Questions were "designed" for a specific response.
-Too small sample size (438) to be statistically significant.
-No breakdown by gender.
-No explanation was given that the "wilderness" SUWA is talking about is a legal definition which is the most restrictive land use definition that exists.