General Tech Motor swap vs forced induction

[Omgbecki]

Just as the title says. I'm looking at opinions on doing a banks turbo vs doing a GM swap in my tj. It will still be in daily driven status. As I've seen no one had done the banks turbo but a couple although I can only think of @RockChucker that had done a ls swap in a tj. I'm not looking at anything extreme. My engine only has 105500 on it with every bank's upgrade besides the turbo. It runs really good but naturally like just about every person on here I want the next level. I'm aware that that with a motor swap i would have to change the trans which will be a 4l60e or a 700r4 just for ease. Also have to change the x case. I mainly want just a little more power for the freeway. The stock overdrive just kills freeway driving even with 4.56 gears. The main thing i'm looking at is the turbo will give me power but the LS will give me more rpms and power for things like mud

 

[Jay5.9L]

Ever considered a stoker as option? I’m in the same boat considering upping the power in my Jeep

 

[Omgbecki]

Ever considered a stoker as option? I’m in the same boat considering upping the power in my Jeep

I have. Most people I've read have issues with drivability and end up getting rid of it. I have read a couple people being happy with it. There is a guy on here that ended up doing a 4.6 I think but was having too many issues

 

[Omgbecki]

I feel for the buck a stoker kit wouldn't be worth it. Cost from cheapest to most expensive I'd say it goes, the way I am now, turbo, stroker, LS swap. The benefits of a stoker would be a fresh motor though.

 

[DAA]

So... I have only bench raced this in my head. Have not seriously researched. But, at one time, I thought it was not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when" my LJ got a V8 swap. Finances aren't what they used to be though, and chances are now slim of it ever actually happening.

But, anyway... My thoughts - NOT thoroughly researched and vetted - more like initial thoughts...

Banks turbo easily the best bang for the buck. Going to cost way less than a V8 swap. Like, WAY less.

V8 swap, way more expensive. By the time you finish buttoning up a new transmission, wiring harness, programming, exhaust, cooling, drivelines, getting it to pass emissions and get it registered and all the other nickel and dime you to death stuff, my initial estimates are probably three times as much money as the Banks turbo. And way, way, WAY more work and problems to solve. For all that though, you get MORE power! And, hopefully, and this is a biggie for me, more range via better MPG. The Banks kit is going to reduce your existing MPG and therefore your range. That's a big deal for me, personally, but I understand it doesn't even matter to most people. But I would hope to match the MPG my 4.0 gets with a V8 swap. Most who have done it report getting better than I do. I don't believe it, most of the time, but I would sure hope to get 12 - 13 MPG with an LS motor.

Stroker… NO thanks. I've never seen anyone have that go smoothly. They have all had cooling issues, tuning issues, emissions issues, you name it. And I don't want to have to run premium fuel either. Reliability is a big deal to me. A big deal. I really haven't ever even considered a stroker as a viable option. Even the guys I know of that have paid big money to buy them from Golen or Hesco, have had nothing but headaches with them.

End of the day, realistically, for myself, the Banks turbo kit would have to be the winner. If I had the money to spare though, I'd rather have a V8. But for the differences in cost and project scope, it's not realistically very likely for me. But I could pull off the Banks kit for less than $4k completed. Even that, ain't likely though, at this point.

- DAA

 

[DAA]

I might as well add... For me, personally, I've decided against the Banks kit too though. The cost is within reach, if I wanted it bad enough I could have made it happen already, or could make it happen within the foreseeable future. But range and reliability are two biggies for me and how my LJ actually gets used. I feel like I'd be losing ground on both fronts with boost on a 100K 4.0. Would love to have the power, but for the money involved and losing range for sure and at least some long term reliability probably, I've pretty much just decided against it.

I feel like with a well done LS swap, although far more expensive, I probably wouldn't lose any range and I think a NA LS would be better than a forced induction 4.0 for long term reliability.

If I can't afford the LS swap, I'm just gonna live with the stock 4.0.

- DAA

 

[Greg]

I think @DAA summed it up nicely. If you're considering a V8 swap, plan on it costing at least 2x more than you think it will, if not more. It's a massive amount of work and even if you do it cheap, it's still expensive. Sometimes a V8 is a must have (like @RockChucker 's TJ) and other times keeping the original engine makes more sense.

That said, a turbo isn't a bolt-on and done setup. I'm not up to speed on the Banks turbo kit, but I'd imagine you'll have to deal with properly tuning the engine after the turbo, possibly changing spark plugs & injectors, etc. You'll have additional heat under the hood and in the engine from the turbo and will need to run it on 91 octane all the time. But, Banks does build simply and fully thought out stuff.... so I'd imagine most of the tuning is worked out and all the right upgrades are made. I would absolutely plan on running an intercooler, it's a little more plumbing hassle but you're getting a cooler intake charge and 'free' power.

Seems like turbocharged gas engines make full boost at high RPMS's... that would be a interesting combo on a low-revving Jeep 4.0, IMO. I'd be curious to see what RPM the Banks turbo starts to build boost. You will see less mileage than a stock engine, especially if you're making boost often. That combined with 91 octane will make driving it more expensive.

I'm a huge fan of turbo's and boost though.... we now have 2 factory turbo-charged vehicles and they both have a great balance of power and MPG's.

 

[Greg]

Some good info here - http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/1308-banks-4-0l-sidewinder-turbo-system/

 

[Mouse]

With an iron block LS, all of the accessories is right about 100 lbs lighter than the 4.0L with accessories. LS swaps vary in cost depending on how you get the engine/trans and what shape they are in. I know a couple of people who bought complete vehicles, stole the engine, trans, computer, etc., then parted the vehicle out and got all of their money back that they invested in the donor - they actually made money getting the engine & trans they wanted. The LS swap is definitely more work as well.

 

[AaronPaige]

What about a blower? Several kits claim to be one day install and easy to reverse if you change your mind... I have been looking but not decided on one for my tj,

 

[TurboMinivan]

You want more power, but you don't want the thermal hassles of a turbo kit? And you'd like to avoid needing to run 91 octane all the time? Then swapping in a stock V8 sounds like your ticket. But, wait--what about all the hassles of wiring and controlling an LS, plus the added headaches of needing to change your transmission (and likely t-case) to match?

(devil's advocate)

Why not swap in a Magnum 318/360 instead? This will give you the extra power you want. It will also cost less than an LS swap, since you can retain your AX-15 transmission. It will also be easier from a wiring standpoint, since you would merely modify your current harness rather than throwing it out and replacing all of it. You'll have fewer issues making it work with your OEM gauge cluster, too.

Just a thought.

(/devil's advocate)

 

[Omgbecki]

I guess I should have added a bit more info

You want more power, but you don't want the thermal hassles of a turbo kit? And you'd like to avoid needing to run 91 octane all the time? Then swapping in a stock V8 sounds like your ticket. But, wait--what about all the hassles of wiring and controlling an LS, plus the added headaches of needing to change your transmission (and likely t-case) to match?

(devil's advocate)

Why not swap in a Magnum 318/360 instead? This will give you the extra power you want. It will also cost less than an LS swap, since you can retain your AX-15 transmission. It will also be easier from a wiring standpoint, since you would merely modify your current harness rather than throwing it out and replacing all of it. You'll have fewer issues making it work with your OEM gauge cluster, too.

Just a thought.

(/devil's advocate)

As far as I understand a Magnum isn't legal for my jeep as it's last year was 03 and my jeep is a 04.

 

[Omgbecki]

I think @DAA summed it up nicely. If you're considering a V8 swap, plan on it costing at least 2x more than you think it will, if not more. It's a massive amount of work and even if you do it cheap, it's still expensive. Sometimes a V8 is a must have (like @RockChucker 's TJ) and other times keeping the original engine makes more sense.

That said, a turbo isn't a bolt-on and done setup. I'm not up to speed on the Banks turbo kit, but I'd imagine you'll have to deal with properly tuning the engine after the turbo, possibly changing spark plugs & injectors, etc. You'll have additional heat under the hood and in the engine from the turbo and will need to run it on 91 octane all the time. But, Banks does build simply and fully thought out stuff.... so I'd imagine most of the tuning is worked out and all the right upgrades are made. I would absolutely plan on running an intercooler, it's a little more plumbing hassle but you're getting a cooler intake charge and 'free' power.

Seems like turbocharged gas engines make full boost at high RPMS's... that would be a interesting combo on a low-revving Jeep 4.0, IMO. I'd be curious to see what RPM the Banks turbo starts to build boost. You will see less mileage than a stock engine, especially if you're making boost often. That combined with 91 octane will make driving it more expensive.

I'm a huge fan of turbo's and boost though.... we now have 2 factory turbo-charged vehicles and they both have a great balance of power and MPG's.

The banks turbo kit comes with everything needed and just another a complete bolt on. Injectors, down pipe, tuner ect... as fast as boost, it has a smaller turbo so it spools faster. Claims are that at 1600 rpm it has more torque then a stock TJ motor peak.

 

[Greg]

The banks turbo kit comes with everything needed and just another a complete bolt on. Injectors, down pipe, tuner ect... as fast as boost, it has a smaller turbo so it spools faster. Claims are that at 1600 rpm it has more torque then a stock TJ motor peak.

That sounds perfect then!

 

[rholbrook]

My friend has a hemi swap in his JKU. Hates it. Runs hot and does not like the gears in his auto trans. He has changed the gears in the axle to try to fix. Wishes he could do a manual valve body to keep it from shifting up and down through the gears.

I would still probably do a V8 swap over a turbo or blower. My daughters uncle in law owns the black JKU that LHM Bountiful had in their showroom with a fancy off road trailer hooked to it. He had LHM put a super charger on it. He loves it but he has only put maybe 2000 miles on it in a year

 

[TurboMinivan]

my jeep is a 04.

Oh, for some reason I thought yours was about the same age as my '98.

 

[Omgbecki]

Oh, for some reason I thought yours was about the same age as my '98.

Trust me if it was I'd have a 360 in it. The only reason why I haven't already haha

 

[Omgbecki]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the input. I think with saying it outloud and getting your thoughts I'll go the turbo kit. If anyone is interested 4wheeler magazine installed the turbo kit without the intercooler in a 04 or 05 LJ auto with 35s and 4.56s and really liked it.

 

[UNSTUCK]

A little late to the party, but for me I'd base it on how handy you are with doing the work. I have done enough LS swaps now to feel pretty confident in the whole process. If you are even the slightest bit handy, you can do the entire swap yourself. It is surprisingly simple. I was able to do an entire LS swap for a customer one time for $5000. He brought me the drivetrain, which he said he paid $1000 for. Every part I put in the jeep was was either used for at least preowned, but all were in perfect shape. If that guy would have done all the work himself he would have saved all my labor fees. To me, that makes the LS swap a no brainer vs a turbo kit. I will say that meeting his goal of $5000 was HARD, and he did make a few sacrifices along the way, but nothing that would affect the quality of the build. The Jeep worked great once it was done.
A few random thoughts:

-My cj7 with a TPI 350, 35" tires and 4.88 gears got 20 MPG when I kept my foot out of it. I believe an LS would have done better.
-Don't even consider a 700r4 with an LS. Let the computer control one of the modern transmissions.
-Start with a cheap core transmission. You'll have to tear it apart anyways when you install a new output shaft for the t-case adapter. So build the transmission at the same time.
-Novak Conversions has some great parts for the TJ LS swap. DO NOT use their entire kit. I can go more into detail if you go this route.
-Strongly consider gutting your grill. The radiator pocket in the grill is not adequate. You need a radiator that is bigger than will fit inside the pocket, unless there are no plans for go fast in the dirt.
- Building your own harness is really simple to do. It also lets you run the wiring perfectly inside the jeep. I'm OCD about how wiring looks. Store bought harnesses are always way too long in some areas and too short in others. Drives me CRAZY.

 

[kmboren]

I wheeled with a TJ stretched to an LJ and he had a bolt on super charger that he loved. He said it cost about 3k to do it and he did most of it himself. Can't remember the brand but it looked clean and nice and simple.

A little late to the party, but for me I'd base it on how handy you are with doing the work. I have done enough LS swaps now to feel pretty confident in the whole process. If you are even the slightest bit handy, you can do the entire swap yourself. It is surprisingly simple. I was able to do an entire LS swap for a customer one time for $5000. He brought me the drivetrain, which he said he paid $1000 for. Every part I put in the jeep was was either used for at least preowned, but all were in perfect shape. If that guy would have done all the work himself he would have saved all my labor fees. To me, that makes the LS swap a no brainer vs a turbo kit. I will say that meeting his goal of $5000 was HARD, and he did make a few sacrifices along the way, but nothing that would affect the quality of the build. The Jeep worked great once it was done.
A few random thoughts:

-My cj7 with a TPI 350, 35" tires and 4.88 gears got 20 MPG when I kept my foot out of it. I believe an LS would have done better.
-Don't even consider a 700r4 with an LS. Let the computer control one of the modern transmissions.
-Start with a cheap core transmission. You'll have to tear it apart anyways when you install a new output shaft for the t-case adapter. So build the transmission at the same time.
-Novak Conversions has some great parts for the TJ LS swap. DO NOT use their entire kit. I can go more into detail if you go this route.
-Strongly consider gutting your grill. The radiator pocket in the grill is not adequate. You need a radiator that is bigger than will fit inside the pocket, unless there are no plans for go fast in the dirt.
- Building your own harness is really simple to do. It also lets you run the wiring perfectly inside the jeep. I'm OCD about how wiring looks. Store bought harnesses are always way too long in some areas and too short in others. Drives me CRAZY.

Do you still do LS swaps? Have you done one in an XJ?