Narrowing a FF rear 60?

[RockMonkey]

Carl and I narrowed the front a few weeks ago, by cutting the inner knuckle off, cutting the tube, and pounding the knuckle back onto the (now shorter) tube. Done. Now I need to make a narrow rear to match. Anyone around here ever narrowed one? How?

The way I see it there are three possibilities:

A: Cut off the spindle, cut the tube down, and weld it back on
B: Drill out the plug welds, pull the tube out of the diff, cut it shorter, stuff it back in, and plug weld it where the old ones were.
C: Cut a section of tube out from the middle, sleeve some kind of tube in the middle, and butt-weld it.

Option A may be difficult to get the spindle back on straight, and that will cause problems. Getting that spindle straight is much more critical than getting the inner knuckle straight on the front. Also, I don't know exactly how the spindle is welded on, or exactly where to cut it off.

Option B would probably be ideal, except I doubt if it can be done with "normal" garage/shop tools. I'm that sucker's in there pretty tight, and even if I could get it out I don't know if I could get a new one in.

Option C seems to be the easiest way. It would be easy to cut it, and should be fairly easy to get it back together straight. I'm a bit concerned about the strength of an axle tube narrowed this way.

So, what do you guys think? What have you done or seen done?

 

[Hickey]

There was a good thread on Pirate about this, I thinkit was by TPIJeep, but I may be wrong. He narrowed a 60, but he welded 14 bolt spindles on there to make room for 1.5" shafts.
The sleeve would work, in my opinion, as long as you used a nice long sleeve, say 8" or so and made it about .003-.005" larger than the axle tube ID. Throw the sleeve in the freezer, and it will pound in easily. Bevle the edges where the butt weld will be, and I would spray the weld in there. Carl has the right setup for spray transfer.

What are you going to do for shafts?

Here is a homebrew re tube thread.

Sleeve-butt weld thread

 

[Shawn]

Option B would be the route I would take. The sleve issue doen't sit to well with me.

 

[RockMonkey]

Interesting thread, Hickey. Maybe they aren't in as tight as I assumed. I would prefer to use option B. Of course, that would require buying a new 60 (I was probably going to anyway) since the tubes are welded to the diff on mine, after spinning one. So, has anyone around here tried to get a tube out of a FF 60? Is it as easy as that guy's 44 was?

 

[Hickey]

Option B would be the route I would take. The sleve issue doen't sit to well with me.

On a full float axle, you may wear your shaft splines if the spindles do not get welded back on perfectly straight.

The best method is to use a jig, or set up bar. You can buy the pucks and spindle ends from CJ66DEAN on Pirate.

 

[Hickey]

So, has anyone around here tried to get a tube out of a FF 60? Is it as easy as that guy's 44 was?

I have never tried it, and I don't know anyone else who has doen it that way. Everyone I know has used a set up bar.

 

[Hickey]

Here is the thread by TPIJeep I was looking for.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145905&highlight=spindle
This is the jig end I was talking about.

 

[RockMonkey]

On a full float axle, you may wear your shaft splines if the spindles do not get welded back on perfectly straight.

The best method is to use a jig, or set up bar. You can buy the pucks and spindle ends from CJ66DEAN on Pirate.

That would only be necessary if I cut the spindles off, narrow the tube, and weld them back up, right? I shouldn't really need the alignment stuff if I beat the tube out of the diff, shorten it, and beat it back in, or cut it in the middle and sleeve it, right? Any idea how much he sells that stuff for? Is there a thread on there that shows exactly what he has to sell, and how much?

 

[Hickey]

That would only be necessary if I cut the spindles off, narrow the tube, and weld them back up, right? I shouldn't really need the alignment stuff if I beat the tube out of the diff, shorten it, and beat it back in, or cut it in the middle and sleeve it, right? Any idea how much he sells that stuff for? Is there a thread on there that shows exactly what he has to sell, and how much?

The biggest problem is that the tubes are almost always bent, even on a 60. I am still looking for prices.

Edit: $200. They would be easy to make if you had access to a lathe.
Here is a good thread. link

 

[RockMonkey]

Reading the TOTW thread now. No lathe...

 

[Shawn]

On a full float axle, you may wear your shaft splines if the spindles do not get welded back on perfectly straight.

The best method is to use a jig, or set up bar. You can buy the pucks and spindle ends from CJ66DEAN on Pirate.

Option B is to remove the tubes, not the spindles.

 

[Milner]

C is they way we did ALL the axles when I worked for advanced. I NEVER saw one have a problem, even in the medium duty utility trucks. They have done it that way for 30 years....That is how Charles did them on his own too. Even when replacing a spindle, it was cut back from the end a little and sleeved. Press fit sleeve was used, not sure or the exact interference but Hickey's suggestion seems about right. Ussually didn't take any heat, just a OMGBFH. Charles is a strong MF....esspecially for an old guy

I think you are worrying too much and being hyper critical as to the splicing/welding, but not worried enough about alignment. Most, if not all semi-float housing have the pockets just but welded on. Racers have been doing this forever! It really is not a problem.
BUT alignment is critical! You do not need a line up bar. You can do it by eye if you have a stand you can rotate and axle on....If you build said stand, just make an attatchment that has an adjustable hieght so you can set it to just under the the tube, watch the gap between the attachment piece and the tube, you will be able to see if it is true....Using method C, use this to line it up, tack at 12,3,6,9-check it, use OMGBFH to true it, tack in between other tacks, repeat a couple times until the first layer is weld all the way around. Now just crank the heat and wire and fill it up while rotating it....

Hope you can understand that....If not, call me. I can help you make a stand and do this if you want....As long as I can use the stand once in a while

Marc

 

[Hickey]

Braden, I thought of an easy way to make those jig ends, but I don't think I could easily explain it over the internet. give me a call.

 

[ROCKRUNNER]

braden i would be willing to pay half of the jig therefore i can use it on mine i am doing the same idea just a 9" pumkin and i will have to do it the option c way because i am adapting two axles a 9" and a ff 60 ends. does your 60 have the 3" tubes or 3.25" tubes?

 

[bryson]

Jigs are being made as we speak (read)...axle is cut...now we are cookin' with fire! (OK...no fire.)

Will let you know how it works out.

 

[grinch]

C is they way we did ALL the axles when I worked for advanced. I NEVER saw one have a problem, even in the medium duty utility trucks. They have done it that way for 30 years....That is how Charles did them on his own too. Even when replacing a spindle, it was cut back from the end a little and sleeved. Press fit sleeve was used, not sure or the exact interference but Hickey's suggestion seems about right. Ussually didn't take any heat, just a OMGBFH. Charles is a strong MF....esspecially for an old guy

I think you are worrying too much and being hyper critical as to the splicing/welding, but not worried enough about alignment. Most, if not all semi-float housing have the pockets just but welded on. Racers have been doing this forever! It really is not a problem.
BUT alignment is critical! You do not need a line up bar. You can do it by eye if you have a stand you can rotate and axle on....If you build said stand, just make an attatchment that has an adjustable hieght so you can set it to just under the the tube, watch the gap between the attachment piece and the tube, you will be able to see if it is true....Using method C, use this to line it up, tack at 12,3,6,9-check it, use OMGBFH to true it, tack in between other tacks, repeat a couple times until the first layer is weld all the way around. Now just crank the heat and wire and fill it up while rotating it....

Hope you can understand that....If not, call me. I can help you make a stand and do this if you want....As long as I can use the stand once in a while

Marc

Thats how vandal just did Aron cloughs (Im sure I just butcherd his last name sory) Rear Axle for his new buggy that wouldnt pass the rules.....

 

[Jared]

Forgive me being a little wet behind the ears on this topic... but what I was wondering is what you guys are using for shafts after the housing is narrowed. Do you have stock shafts cut and resplined or just get custom shafts made? What would the advantage/cost of each be?

Thanks,
Jared

 

[RockMonkey]

Since 35 spline FF 60s are extremely rare, almost everyone has to buy custom shafts. I am only going to narrow one side of my rear axle, and I already have 35 spline Yukon shafts that I've been running for the last several years, so I will either have one of them narrowed, or buy a custom length one for the short side (or maybe buy two, and I'll have a full set of spares, hmmm...).

 

[James K]

are you taking pics as you go? so the class can follow along


seriously I would like to see how you are doing it.

 

[RockMonkey]

Will do.