Next Toy

[moab_cj5]

Well, the last few months have been full of life events, and vehicle changes. In June of last year I traded my 2010 JKUR on a brand new 2014 F150 FX4 ecoboost, and then a month ago traded that on a 2016 Explorer Sport with the 3.5L ecoboost. I loved the truck, but had to take care of a family need (the explorer) and give up a personal luxury.

Any who, i sold my wife's minivan and am now looking for 2 vehicles. I am searching for a CJ 7 or 8, but may pick up a 5 if I can't find anything that tickles my fancy. This will serve as my more wild wheeling machine, as well as be the vehicle my son drives to high school. So far, I haven't found much worth plopping money on, so the search goes on.

The reason for this post is the 2nd vehicle i am searching for... I have narrowed my search to a 100 series Land Cruiser, GX470, maybe a FJ Cruiser, or a 3.4L 4Runner with the 5 speed. In my search, i came across this and was wondering if it might be worth picking up and dropping a 4.7L V8 in and have a killer 80 series... http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2691345?ad_cid=5

I would need to put more in it I am sure than just an engine, but thought it might be worth asking on here!

If you, or someone you know is selling a GX470 for a decent price, or an older 4Runner with a 5 speed and 3.4L, let me know.

 

[StevenS10]

I can't speak to the Land Cruiser itself, but Toyota is the worst brand for the engine computers being tune-able. Pretty much the exact opposite of the GM LSx. Being on my second 4.8L version of the LSx, not counting the one in the U-Haul pickup I rented that made me fall in love with the 4.8, and daily-driving a Ford 4.6L, I can't see any reason to choose the unresponsive 'yota with it's relative lack of aftermarket support. Prices on 'yota's 5.7L are still insane, but it makes enough power that you wouldn't need to mod it. OTOH, my 4.8 with just porting, a used cam ( roller lifters ) headers, and a tune makes more power than the 'yota 5.7, with more MPG too! Or I could do a remote turbo in place of the muffler, and still be cheaper and more HP and more MPG than the 5.7, still emissions-legal either way. With the LSx, you can step up to the 5.3 for about $50 extra, unless you get lucky and score one at Pick-N-Pull's half-price day like I did. Then it's only $100 for the complete engine. You'll never manage that with any 'yota 5.7, they're bringing $3500. For that I could do a GM 6.2L LSx and a turbo.

 

[Bart]

Getting out my popcorn and drink and settling in to watch this.

 

[BCGPER]

It'll be beer thirty before the dust settles on this one...

 

[sixstringsteve]

That 80 series looks like a great starting platform. I've heard the 4.7 swap is pretty tough to pull off though. I'll keep my eyes peeled for ya.

 

[UNSTUCK]

I put a 5.3 in an FJ60. It was probably the coolest rig I have built. I would guess this wouldn't be much different. If you pick it up for a grand, how much more do you want to budget to make it a driver?

 

[johngottfredson]

Slee charges $25k for that 4.7 swap, not including the cost of the motor....so I'm guessing its not like dropping a chev 350 in a 40 series cruiser...

Being a proud owner of an 80 (with 3 previous 80s, RIP), and having a good amount of experience in the 100 series and my DD tundra with the 4.7, I would go 100 series all the way. The only thing keeping me from making the upgrade is $$$, so if you can swing it, that's what I would do without any question.

Interesting read on the various land cruisers and relative merit from our local, Dave Connors:

http://expeditionportal.com/evolution-of-an-icon/

I would do 2005-2006 as the premium years. And while the LX470's are basically the same and actually seem to sell for a bit less money, I'm not so hot on their grill/headlight layout as the classic cruiser, so that's an important buying consideration

 

[nnnnnate]

I can't speak to the Land Cruiser itself, but Toyota is the worst brand for the engine computers being tune-able. Pretty much the exact opposite of the GM LSx. Being on my second 4.8L version of the LSx, not counting the one in the U-Haul pickup I rented that made me fall in love with the 4.8, and daily-driving a Ford 4.6L, I can't see any reason to choose the unresponsive 'yota with it's relative lack of aftermarket support. Prices on 'yota's 5.7L are still insane, but it makes enough power that you wouldn't need to mod it. OTOH, my 4.8 with just porting, a used cam ( roller lifters ) headers, and a tune makes more power than the 'yota 5.7, with more MPG too! Or I could do a remote turbo in place of the muffler, and still be cheaper and more HP and more MPG than the 5.7, still emissions-legal either way. With the LSx, you can step up to the 5.3 for about $50 extra, unless you get lucky and score one at Pick-N-Pull's half-price day like I did. Then it's only $100 for the complete engine. You'll never manage that with any 'yota 5.7, they're bringing $3500. For that I could do a GM 6.2L LSx and a turbo.

Will you swap an LS12 into my LX470? I wanna do burnouts in 4th. How much would something like that cost me?

Dave, the next logical step if your thinking about doing a motor swap is diesel right? Think about that one real long and hard though cause there aren't a lot of guys doing parts to support even common swaps. One of the WC guys started a diesel swap on an 80 in the end of July thinking he'd be done in a month. He did finally get a shipment from his order but it was incomplete and part of it was wrong anyway. The dude won't return calls or emails and its kind of a known problem. Check out ih8mud for more info on motor swaps if you haven't yet.

 

[moab_cj5]

I put a 5.3 in an FJ60. It was probably the coolest rig I have built. I would guess this wouldn't be much different. If you pick it up for a grand, how much more do you want to budget to make it a driver?

My total budget to buy, and make both vehicles (Jeep and whatever else) semi reliable, is $13k-$18k. A wide range, but there are too many variables to nail it down exactly. The vehicles i find will have a great deal of influence here as well.

Slee charges $25k for that 4.7 swap, not including the cost of the motor....so I'm guessing its not like dropping a chev 350 in a 40 series cruiser...

Being a proud owner of an 80 (with 3 previous 80s, RIP), and having a good amount of experience in the 100 series and my DD tundra with the 4.7, I would go 100 series all the way. The only thing keeping me from making the upgrade is $$$, so if you can swing it, that's what I would do without any question.

Interesting read on the various land cruisers and relative merit from our local, Dave Connors:

http://expeditionportal.com/evolution-of-an-icon/

I would do 2005-2006 as the premium years. And while the LX470's are basically the same and actually seem to sell for a bit less money, I'm not so hot on their grill/headlight layout as the classic cruiser, so that's an important buying consideration

Thanks for the input! I have driven a 2005 LC, and Ferg's 2000 LX. I can't justify the extra $$$ for the 05 based on my seat of the pants experience in it. I am not a huge fan of the LX front clip either, and modifying the suspension poses other challenges a LC won't have, but the LX option is there (i haven't ruled out Ferg's even though i do wish him luck selling it). I will detail all of the vehicles I have looked at in another post. My hangup on the LC is size, and gutless feel of the 4.7 in such a large, heavy vehicle. After driving a GX 470 with same engine, the GX feels like a rocket (1500 or so lbs lighter) where the LC was more similar to my 2010 JKUR with the 3.8L gutless wonder. If the LC felt peppy and fun, i would drop cash in Ferg's hand today and drive his to my house.

Dave, the next logical step if your thinking about doing a motor swap is diesel right? Think about that one real long and hard though cause there aren't a lot of guys doing parts to support even common swaps. One of the WC guys started a diesel swap on an 80 in the end of July thinking he'd be done in a month. He did finally get a shipment from his order but it was incomplete and part of it was wrong anyway. The dude won't return calls or emails and its kind of a known problem. Check out ih8mud for more info on motor swaps if you haven't yet.

Thanks for the tip on mud. I have been on there looking into the GX470 modification options. No diesel swaps for me... I need to understand how to fix whatever it is while in the middle of nowhere, based on my past experience (my vehicles tend to hate me at the most inopportune times... ). Anything i do will be somewhat stock and simple (as simple as it seems to swap a V8 into an 80...)

 

[johngottfredson]

Thanks for the input! I have driven a 2005 LC, and Ferg's 2000 LX. I can't justify the extra $$$ for the 05 based on my seat of the pants experience in it. I am not a huge fan of the LX front clip either, and modifying the suspension poses other challenges a LC won't have, but the LX option is there (i haven't ruled out Ferg's even though i do wish him luck selling it). I will detail all of the vehicles I have looked at in another post. My hangup on the LC is size, and gutless feel of the 4.7 in such a large, heavy vehicle. After driving a GX 470 with same engine, the GX feels like a rocket (1500 or so lbs lighter) where the LC was more similar to my 2010 JKUR with the 3.8L gutless wonder. If the LC felt peppy and fun, i would drop cash in Ferg's hand today and drive his to my house.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "peppy and fun" aren't often used in the same sentence as "land cruiser." Although, it's all a matter of comparison. The 3FE owners long for the FZJ power, and when I drive the 4.7 100 it feels like a rocket compared to my tired FZJ 4.5, so it would be a huge upgrade for me

As for the modification of the suspension, folks typically ditch the stock for OME anyway, so its a good excuse for a mild lift.

When I test-drove the GX 470 before helping my folks buy their LX 470, it felt lighter but also not as solid as the cruisers. Maybe I wrongfully equate an SUV that drives like a dog to be quality, but few will question the heavy-duty engineering of the land cruiser product line. I suppose when I am a slug off the line and can never pass a gas station, that line of thought provides some measure of comfort...

If I didn't need the space for hauling a mess of kids with me, I would throw my hat at a 4runner with the 4.7 in it. Those seem to be the sweet spot for weight/power/trail size/build quality.

 

[moab_cj5]

When I test-drove the GX 470 before helping my folks buy their LX 470, it felt lighter but also not as solid as the cruisers. Maybe I wrongfully equate an SUV that drives like a dog to be quality, but few will question the heavy-duty engineering of the land cruiser product line. I suppose when I am a slug off the line and can never pass a gas station, that line of thought provides some measure of comfort...

If I didn't need the space for hauling a mess of kids with me, I would throw my hat at a 4runner with the 4.7 in it. Those seem to be the sweet spot for weight/power/trail size/build quality.

The GX is lighter, and not as heavy duty since it is built off the same platform as the 4Runner and FJ, but since it shares a platform (other than the air ride), it can be built to be robust. I have all but ruled out 4Runners with the V8 for 2 reasons. 1) Less interior space than the GX on the same chassis. 2) There aren't that many to choose from. There are probably 2 to 1 GX's in my price range with lower miles and more space than the 4Runner (for a lower price in most cases), and most (but not all) modifications can be made to the GX.

 

[moab_cj5]

Here is a list of vehicles I have looked at so far (maybe more to keep them straight for me than anyone else's benefit), and my impressions (my honest feeling about the vehicle with no disrespect intended should the owner be on here and read this).

Full disclosure, I compare all vehicles to my past experience (good or bad) to vehicles I have owned and driven. Most recently, my heavily modified 2010 JKUR and my 2014 F150. Keep my bias in mind while reading my impressions as I know I am comparing apples and watermelons... I have also owned 1 Toyota in the past, a 1990 4Runner with the craptastic 3.0. It has taken me 16 years after that experience to seriously consider drinking the Toyota Kool Aide again. After owning an 05 Rubi LJ, and my 2010 JKUR, I really hate Chrysler (fair or not, i have no love left for them)...

The first vehicle I drove while beginning my search was this 2005 LC 100 series with 120k or so miles for $18.5k:
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2679481
The owner is a super cool guy. This thing is a little dirtier inside than i like (typical carpet stains and a detail job would go a long way) but the service record is great and detailed. I wouldn't worry at all about reliability of this rig based on the service record, but I can't justify blowing my whole budget on 1 vehicle and have nothing left to buy the 2nd one, or do any repairs/mods to either. The owner says he has it listed for what the dealer will give him for trade, so good a private buyer that wants it for a deal. This was my first let down with the feel of 4.7 and peppy driving. I shiver at the thought of what this will feel like with a lift, larger tires, and weight of all my crap loaded into it. The plus size is durability and reliability.

After the 100 series, I jumped on KSL to see what else was in the area, and decided to check out a FJ Cruiser. Knowing a couple of people on here with them that have good things to say about the FJ's, and noticing they came in a 6 speed, I found this one and decided to go look at it.
2007 FJ Cruiser with 86k miles for $17k.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2635736
My first impression was how peppy the vehicle is with the 4.0 and 6 speed. It was fun to drive (after I finally figured out the shift pattern). The interior lighting sucks (it was dark when i drove it), and the side mirrors leave a lot to be desired. This specific vehicle has a strange engine tick, like noisy lifters, but served as a good test vehicle to see if I can envision buying one. I haven't ruled them out, but an FJ is still an option.

Next I drove Ferg's 2000 LX 470, 146k miles for $12k. To be honest, I am still considering this vehicle, even though I hope Ben has good luck and sells it quickly for his sake. He seems to be a great guy!
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2637436
This is a 16 year old vehicle, and has some of the marks to show for it. It does drive nice, and it is evident it has been cared for. I personally would be putting tires on it ASAP (wear from an alignment problem causing uneven wear, and I am not sure 2 of the tires will pass inspection, but I could be wrong) and having an alignment done. This drives nice and feels tight, but has the same "slow motion" feel of the 2005 I drove earlier. If I go the LC route, and this is still available, I will be making an offer on this.

Next I drove this 2003 Lexus GX470. It has 96k miles and they are asking $11.4k.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2615513?ad_cid=29
This is a rocket ship compared to the LX, but this particular vehicle is a little rough (even with low miles). The hood release latch is broken where it attaches to the grill (not a big deal alone), the interior has been well abused (likely a family vehicle, not indicative of a little old lady that babies their car), the driver’s seat warmer didn't work, the sunroof was frozen shut (I can't say it doesn't work, but it wouldn't open when I test drove it), but the service records show mechanical care has been performed most of its life. This one will need a timing belt and water pump in the coming year or so, but I am still considering this rig. For me to buy it though, they will have to deal a fair amount to close the gaps.

Next, I looked at this 2007 GX470 in Bountiful. 160k miles for roughly $14k
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2623616?ad_cid=11
I started this rig and looked it over, but in talking with the dealer, left without driving it. This appears to be a solid rig, but nothing about it made me want to justify spending the money on it over the 03 listed about that I think I could get a better deal on.

I had my eye on a 1999 4Runner in Bountiful that had 156k miles for $7.8k, and wanted to drive it. When I went to call on the ad, it was gone off KSL, so I can only assume it sold. I was bummed I didn't get to look at it.

Next, I looked at this CJ5, mainly because it is close to my house and has some desirable upgrades. 83 CJ 5 for $8k
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2065948?ad_cid=16
The owner started this up, but I didn't drive it. It was freaking cold outside, and the heater doesn't work. He also would have had to move too many vehicles out of the way to get to drive it, and after discussing some of my concerns, and his price, decided I wasn't serious enough to go through the motions. It fired right up, and seems to be cancer free (body is the best I've seen in a CJ in a long time). I haven't driven a CJ 5 since I sold mine in 2005, and forgot how small they were! I prefer the 7 for that extra inch of leg room in the front seats, but haven't ruled a 5 out completely. I am sure this is worth what he is asking, but it isn't worth that much to me, so my search continued.

Out in West Haven is this little gem (to the right person anyway). 76 CJ7, T18 trans with fuel injected 258, on 33" pizza cutters for $7.8k.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2150169?ad_cid=12
This has some cancer, but nothing like others i have seen in this vintage. I was pleasantly surprised by the Jeep, and it isn't too far from being a great project for someone, but for the price it isn't for me. I would make too many changes to justify spending that much as a starting place.

While in the area, I stopped to look at this 04 GX 470 with 136k for $11.5k.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2686283?ad_cid=18
It has been sitting for a few weeks, and struggled a little to fire up, but then seemed to run ok. The owner says he just purchased it in Dec of 15, and the registration supports that. He is selling it now for personal reasons. It was scheduled to have the Timing belt and water pump replaced today (2/5/16). I drove it down the street for a quick ride, and right away felt something not right in the rear end. I pulled into the parking lot of a Winco in the area, and crawled under it with my flashlight to see it was sitting on the rear bump stops. The air suspension was not functioning in the rear. I checked the rest of the rig over, and tried changing the suspension setting to see if it would lift off the bump stop, but had no luck. I returned to the seller’s house and informed him of my findings. He said he will look into repairing this and seems to be a standup guy, but I only talked to him for about 20 min… I have ruled this one out for me (going back to the 03 with fewer miles for roughly the same money), but if fixed, might make a good ride for someone else searching.

I have made some phone calls on other KSL adds, some good, some I’ve ruled out, some are just too far away to get to until I have more free time in daylight.

Long winded post, but a place where I can compile my thoughts on vehicles for later reference.

 

[moab_cj5]

Next up, I plan to look at these. If you have any info on any of them, and want to share, please do! 8O1. 663. 63O5. Or PM, or post always works too…

2007 FJ Cruiser with 171k for $13.9k (already somewhat built, for better or worse)
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2592874?ad_cid=30
Pros: Already built, so can be budget friendly with some things done. Good aftermarket support for accessories, price is close to where I want to be.
Cons: 171k miles, with no known maintenance that I am aware of. Already built: my experience isn’t great buying already modified vehicles. Price doesn’t allow much left in the budget for another vehicle or do repairs if needed.

1996 Toyota 4Runner with 230k for $4k.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2691500?ad_cid=12
Rough, and cheap. This is a long shot, but on my radar.

1984 Jeep CJ7 for $6k, in Richfield
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2681411?ad_cid=6
Owner says someone coming on Sat morning to look (I hope it is as clean as it sounds), so someone might be getting a great jeep for an OK price. On my radar, but Richfield is a long ways to go to look…

1982 CJ5 for $4.5k.
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2670641?ad_cid=10
The owner admitted he was drunk when I talked to him, and didn’t give me warm fuzzies about the Jeep. It is barely on my radar, but on there for the time being.

1983 CJ 7 for $6k
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2633352?ad_cid=28
Talked to the owner, and this sounds promising, but I am a long way from Mt Pleasant, and I don’t have time to head there soon to check this out. Owner sounds great, Jeep sounds like a bit of a project, but most clean. Not sure I want to drop that much coin and have to change a lot of things, but I won’t know for sure until I go see it.

1985 CJ7 for $6k
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2633352?ad_cid=28
Trying to connect with the owner to get more details. Very vague ad… I definitely prefer more detail to less detail in a for sale ad…

1986 CJ7 for $4k
http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/2658032?ad_cid=17
Again, waiting on a call back from the seller. Vague ad, cheap, but need more info.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Over 200k is a lot, even for a toyota.

Toyotas can be great rigs, but they can be dogs too. My advice is not to buy the cheapest one you can find. Buy a good middle-of-the-road one. I've bought a few over 200k, but they were in great condition and they served me well.

That being said, a 4runner with a 5-speed is an absolute blast. I love those rigs, but the 3rd gens are starting to get a little tired by this point. There are some great 4.0 V6 4th gen models out there for almost the same prices with much less wear and tear. Just a thought.

 

[moab_cj5]

Over 200k is a lot, even for a toyota.

Toyotas can be great rigs, but they can be dogs too. My advice is not to buy the cheapest one you can find. Buy a good middle-of-the-road one. I've bought a few over 200k, but they were in great condition and they served me well.

That being said, a 4runner with a 5-speed is an absolute blast. I love those rigs, but the 3rd gens are starting to get a little tired by this point. There are some great 4.0 V6 4th gen models out there for almost the same prices with much less wear and tear. Just a thought.

Good advice. Thanks!


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[skippy]

My CJ7 I currently own is by far my favorite wheeling rig since my JKU. It's hard to argue with super simple suspension and the rugged good looks of a CJ

 

[johngottfredson]

The GX is lighter, and not as heavy duty since it is built off the same platform as the 4Runner and FJ, but since it shares a platform (other than the air ride), it can be built to be robust. I have all but ruled out 4Runners with the V8 for 2 reasons. 1) Less interior space than the GX on the same chassis. 2) There aren't that many to choose from. There are probably 2 to 1 GX's in my price range with lower miles and more space than the 4Runner (for a lower price in most cases), and most (but not all) modifications can be made to the GX.

Wait....so, you're saying the GX 470 drives like a rocket ship, reliability/capability of 4runner, shares 120 series platform, and costs measurably less than comparable 4runners, with more space/comfort? Thanks for that, I just spent the last hour reading up on these things...

 

[moab_cj5]

Wait....so, you're saying the GX 470 drives like a rocket ship, reliability/capability of 4runner, shares 120 series platform, and costs measurably less than comparable 4runners, with more space/comfort? Thanks for that, I just spent the last hour reading up on these things...

Yup. The main suspension difference is the air ride that will go away if I end up buying one.


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[nnnnnate]

The GXs have AHC right? If that's correct it is hydraulic not air. Not that it really matters but thought I'd clear that up.

I'm also curious as to what you've read that makes you feel the need to immediately pull it out especially on a rough that if I understand it won't get wheeled super hard... Isn't that what the CJ is for?

People chirp about ahc because it's expensive to replace components and it doesn't really like the heavy weight of bumpers or heavy towing. I have to ask, are you really planning to make those mods on a GX? Is it just the need to make it your own that would drive you to pull it?

 

[Kevin B.]

Today I found out I'm really really interested in a 470.